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Are antique receivers re-chambered into another caliber still considered antique?

asparagustastyasparagustasty Member Posts: 22

Hey folks,

Recently I've been getting into the world of antique/C&R milsurps, and inevitably, I started venturing into the world of small-ring Mausers. Of course, one of the first things I started to look at were Loewe Berlin-marked receivers, which generally are regarded as antiques due to the company being renamed as DWM in 1896 and thus pre-1899, as well as 1893 Turkish Mausers. I know a lot of those receivers eventually got rechambered into different calibers (Chilean Mausers modified for 7.62x51mm, Turkish Mausers receiving 7.92x57mm Ankara update in the 1930s, etc). However, when asked whether they were still considered antiques or not, a lot of FFLs gave me diverse answers. For instance, one asked their ATF agent, who said they were considered modern due to 7.62/7.92 being "available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade". However, another FFL asked their ATF agent who said that they were still considered antiques. Just to be on the safe side, I just went with the FFL transfers, but were they actually necessary? I don't mind the transfers as my FFL charges very reasonable prices for the transfers (literally 5 bucks), but it's more just a question of curiosity. Here's a couple examples:

7.65 Argentine Mauser -> 7.92 Mauser (the ATF agent said that an FFL was required)

7x57 Mauser -> 7.62x51 (the ATF agent said it wasn't necessary, but I just went ahead and did it just to be safe)


Thank you for your help and for any clarification!

Comments

  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,278 ✭✭✭

    Once an Antique, always an Antique. Change of caliber changes the status of a C&R. There's exceptions to that, like a 1893 DWM small ring, that may have later been re-chambered to 7.62CETME from 7x57 before Spain sold it as surplus, it's still a C&R. If it was a Loewe, it's still an Antique.

  • toad67toad67 Member Posts: 11,450 ✭✭✭✭

    Not to nitpick, but receivers aren't chambered, the barrels are. According to the ATF, if something that is considered C&R is modified from its original configuration then it doesn't qualify. So from my interpretation, a barreled action that has been re chambered might, or might not qualify as T55 mentioned, but a reciever should be okay.

  • asparagustastyasparagustasty Member Posts: 22

    Ah that makes sense. Yeah I guess I should clarify that for some, I was looking at some barreled receivers. So if I am reading you correctly, in regards to antiques, then as long as the receiver itself isn’t touched or if I buy a receiver without the barrel, then it should be fine? Sorry I am still new to the legal terminology.

    And yes, I guess the explanation for why some older modified guns don’t qualify as C&R also make sense as well. Guess I need to do more reading on C&Rs regulations haha.


    Thanks again!

  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,278 ✭✭✭

    Sometimes I think the tax code is easier to figure out, then the ATF rules. The Finn M39 Mosin rifles caused a lot of confusion with the Antique vs C&R. The late 1960's "sneak" rifles had the barrel date of 1968, but the majority of the receivers, had a pre 1899 tang date from when they were made. So you had a pretty much new, and un-issued rifle, that was still an Antique.

  • mmppresmmppres Member Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭

    According to my understanding a C&R must be in original shape. Any changes made to make it different is now a registered item. So a 1893 Mauser made into a sporter must be registered. A Turkish rifle that was upgraded by the military from 1893 status to WW1 upgrade now makes it a modern weapon.

  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member, Moderator Posts: 9,668 ******

    "According to my understanding a C&R "................the question isn't about a C&R firearm, it is about an antique (pre 1899).

  • mmppresmmppres Member Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭

    Sorry I miss stated myself. A antique that has be changed to something modern then its not a antique anymore. Unless its a flintlock to percussion type of change. The ATF wording is strange.

  • Ricci.WrightRicci.Wright Member Posts: 4,347 ✭✭✭✭

    What if I took the barrel off of a 1893 post modern mausewer and made a tomato stick out of it?? Cause I do love tomato sandwiches, with Miracle Whip, or Dukes Mayo either one. But if you are gonna do that then add some crispy bacon, a lot of bacon, and some good lettuce, not that iceberg crap either. Now you have a BLT, the undisputed KOS. King of Sandwiches. Now fall comes and I am thinking about hunting. Oh damn!! I need a hog rifle so I pull the barrel out of the ground and clean it up and screw it back on my 1893. Is it still an antique?? Hell yes!! But what if I decide I want to shoot them pigs way out there at 1200 yards like all the people on youtube?? I buy a new barrel in 6.5 c more and screw it on my 1893. Still antique?? I don't think so.

  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,278 ✭✭✭

    If your 1893 was made before Jan 1st, 1899, you could stick any barrel you want on it, it's still an Antique. If it was made after that date, it's C&R until you change the barrel.

  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member, Moderator Posts: 9,668 ******

    well....here is my antique. a m-95 mauser in .250 savage by Manufactura Loewe Berlin (went out of business in 1896


This discussion has been closed.