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Has anyone besides me noticed the bidding prices for Remington Ultimate BP rifles lately?
Okie743
Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭
Here is a link to one on GB:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/919203413
Why???
Are they no longer made or what the deal? (like are the new Ultimates hung up in a shipping carton off the coast of Kalif and Joe cannot get them onshore, maybe???????)
I've got one I bought few years ago with all the attachments. I'm going to see if it's still buried deep in the back of the Gun Safe and dust it off an be careful and not drool/slobber over it's shiny stainless surface and laminated stock after seeing the demand. (stock might separate if exposed to dampness)
Comments
2 bidders make an auction
2 bidders make an auction
Yep,
trying to see which one can pee the furthest.
With the Remington sell-off to various different companies, I don't think the Ultimate will be back in production soon. Small sales figures don't lead to recouping your investment when you buy a company. That is a shame because I liked the gun and scarcity is driving the price.
20 or so years ago I tried out its predecessor - the Ultimate Muzzeloader made here in Michigan. They were trying to get us interested in selling it, so off to the range we went. At that time it could be ordered with a Rem 700 or I believe Weatherby Vanguard action. The makers claimed 250 grains, (5 pellets) could be used because of their ignition system which was a primed 45mag case. I was not impressed because standing to the side and watching my co-worker shoot I was seeing a LOT of unburned powder when the heavy loads were shot. It looked to me that all the fifth pellet was doing was add weight to what was being shot out of the gun, adding recoil and no real benefit because it was burning up downrange. Needless to say we passed on selling the rifle and years afterward I heard of quite a few other problems that cropped up. Fortunately, Remington took on the idea and made quite a few improvements and used more realistic loads and built a pretty good rifle at half the cost of the original guys. Who knows, maybe we will see it again if and when Remmy becomes successful in its new incarnation. Bob
I have wanted one for a while but not at these prices
wow
we do have a week and two weekends to muzzle-load hunt but my old muzzle-loader will have to work
it has for years
never have needed a 300 yard muzzle-loader that bad but they do interest me
Not finished either.. might go higher
I checked the bid history. The two bidders are A+ 23 and A+ 45 so no NR bidders. NR bidder was my first thought and figured the seller was screwed but I was wrong. Me being wrong happens once maybe every four or five years! 🤣
What you mention here about powder burning after leaving the barrel.
I've found from experience that usually anything over 80-100 grains of Black Powder coming out the end of a 26-30 inch BP rifle barrel is burning outside the barrel. Just shoot one at night and take a look.
I've also found that in most all BP rifle that 80gr loads will be the most consistently accurate when used with the proper bullet/sabot combo.
About the Remington Ultimate. (mine)
I bought one when they first came out and done extensive accuracy testing with different loads, both powder and bullets.
I found that for the most CONSISTENT scoped accuracy at 100 yards I had to use the same load as in my other BP 1:28 twist barrels. (1 1/2 inch average groups at 100 yards)
The more powder I loaded over 80 gr the worse the groups became. It is not a 250-300 yard gun for consistent kills on big Game. (no surprise to me)
The Ultimate is a well built heavy gun with a user friendly ignition system. Not user friendly to carry through the woods long distances.
I also have the Remington 700ML in both 50 and 54 cal. (have to CONSTANTLY wear safety glasses or complete face shield is even better) with the Rem 700ML's due to primer blow back through the bolt into the face) I tried to talk to Remington about such but they did not want to hear about such. (they were aware of such but did not want to hear complaints about such. suspect that is why that gun went away fast)
I very rarely deer hunt with my Remington Ultimate.
My favorite BP deer rifle for over last 30 years is a old model T/C 50 cal Hawken with a Green Mountain LRH barrel and using the 209 ignition system with 80 2FF triple 7 powder and Hornady 300gr XTP mag bullets with matching sabots scoped using T/C scope mounts.
Consistent 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards or better.
I
thanks for the information Oakie
I have shot and still shoot a Remington 700ml .54caliber with the 209 conversion and use 90 grains of PyrodexRS FFG equivalent and use Remington Black Powder .44 caliber 303 grain Sabots it has served me well for many years of deer hunting.
I think with your information I will stick to what works for me at 100 yards or less(most of the time in the woods 50 yards or less)
sure will be cheaper on my pocket book Thank You
My 54 caliber 700ml is not as user friendly or for accuracy at 100 yards as compared to my 50 calibers. (the 54 is more picky about the correct recipe for good consistent accuracy)
BUT:
I've used these in my 54cal 700ml with good accuracy results on deer. (use about 60-70 gr powder) This is a .50 dia ALL COPPER jacketed BULLET (50caliber diameter) using a 54cal sabot) They are destructive when they hit and mushroom. Too much powder will make the accuracy suffer.
The larger the dia of the bullet which results in less plastic petals you have on the sides of a sabot normally the more consistent the accuracy. (and the colder the plastic sabot the more consistent, therefore do not let the plastic sabots get hot inside plastic containers during a sunny day or they will get soft and accuracy goes out the window, normally)
They (Barnes) cost at least a $1 a shot but worth such for good accuracy from the 54's.
Barnes 54 Cal .500 Dia 325 Grain Expander Muzzleloader Flat Base Bullet
you can review at this link. They are hard to locate right now.
Expander MZ - Barnes Bullets
Here is a picture of what they look like when mushroomed.
Midsouth sometimes had them on sale, but not now.
54 Caliber .500 Diameter 325 Grain Expander MZ With Sabots 24 Count by Barnes (midsouthshooterssupply.com)
"Rem 700ML's due to primer blow back through the bolt into the face)"........I picked up a Rem. .54 a few years ago and installed a 209 system, works great. It really likes the .54 power belt bullets and 100 gns of 777. 1" groups at 100 yrds.
Believe it or not Okie that is almost the same set up for my Hawken except I still have the original barrel and use Pyrodex.
Very accurate an deadly to boot.
I "HAD" a 700ML. Hated that gun from day one, and I'm a huge Remington guy. Could never get that darn thing to shoot good at even 100 yards. Sold it and bought a T/C Omega. Still hunt with it today. Great accuracy out to 200 yards.
Yes, the 1:48 twist Hawken barrels will group sabots good when the correct recipe combo is found.
To reduce the chance of delayed or no ignition of the side lock percussion Hawkens, especially when using Pyrodex Triple 7 powder try the Mag spark adapter and Winchester Triple 7 209 primers. The Federal 209 primers require that the Mag spark cap be tightened down tighter (more snug) due to the top of the Federal 209 primer is more recessed.
Even Winchester triple 7 209 primers especially made for BP rifles is hard to find right now.
I paint the Mag spark cap FLO orange so as I can locate if dropped in the leaves.
Not user friendly to install cap, especially if up in a tree stand, but worth the effort to get good ignition.
Regular Goex Black Powder (which has lower ignition temperatures) is going away.
What is really nice about the Mag spark 209 adapters on the sidelock BP rifles is the ignition is completely sealed, no splattering blow back of the primer and ignition system.
But I do wear glasses when using any of the BP guns.
I swear I saw a blurb recently about a similar ignition system being used in another modern muzzle loading rifle.
Maybe in the NRA magazine?
When I see auctions like this go sky high I wonder if someone isn't trying to get a hold of the gun for research. Will we see an article come out about this rifle in a magazine soon?