For those of you who live where there are no/ minimal building codes/inspections????
toad67
Member Posts: 13,009 ✭✭✭✭
Wife and I are looking to relocate to Montana for the remainder of our time on this planet. We like the country, atmospheric and political climate there. One major issue that we have is the fact that there are almost no building codes, and/or inspections (plumbing and electrical only) required on homes in Montana. We've read that there are actually quite a few places in the US that go along with this. In the areas that that I've grown up in, building codes have always been in place. We are kind of leery to buy a home w/o inspections on the build as it progresses. Yes, having a home inspection before purchase would be a good idea, but a finished home can hide so many things that can't be seen/corrected before they become a problem. Any thoughts or advice? TIA.
Comments
My thoughts : Hire your own inspectors for each specialty you want deemed to be safe (contractors are the best if you can convince one to do the job) they're much more qualified than a government official who was recommended to the job by a friend of a friend. Why would you want government intruding into your life if your desire is to move to a "free" state ?
"Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee
Wouldn't hiring a contractor as an inspector being the same as just hiring a builder if they never had any specs to follow? As far as being a "free state", that doesn't make it right (IMO) that a builder could build a home with a roof truss ever six feet, and use 3/8" OSB as sheeting material, put some 3-tab over it, w/o any tar paper and call it good? I realize that my responce is an exaggeration, but it shows my point. Big brother does have some place in my life, it's the outside of my house, just not the inside of my home.
In my experience, folks that are in the home inspection business tend not to overlook things. If anything, they tend to “over-find” things. Their reputation is everything since most of their business is lined up through realtors on the buyers’ side. Get a reputation for NOT identifying problems and you’re out of business.
As you said though, an existing house can hide a lot. The key is finding an inspector that has real background/experience with contracting, not just the guy who took a 2-week community college course or something.
Building inspector is different than a home inspector.
Not sure about other states but in NC the building inspectors do many inspections, many at one trip.
Temporary power, footings, framing, rough in plumbing, electrical, gas piping, HVAC, and sometimes even more.
Next is insulation and finally a last inspection on electrcial, plumbing, HVAC, and anything else the want to inspect.
Home inspectors are licensed by the state to evaluate a house that is on the market for sale.
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At least before buying have another builder take a look especially if the price is too good to be true. Pull the occupancy certificate for the home from the county. Have them re certify. If the seller or realtor is uncomfortable with that... pass
I worked 5+ yrs as a real estate appraiser for the State of MT dept of revenue. At that time, outside of some incorporated areas (Helena, Bozeman, Missoula, etc) you could build whatever you wanted on your own property. I assigned values to simple shacks (Theodore Kaczynski's) and multi million dollar log home getaways (Liz Claiborne's). There were always the occasional homes built by DIY Bubbas, but they were easy to spot and were valued accordingly. By and large, builders in MT adhered to the same construction practices as anywhere else. I suppose it goes without saying that you do not hire an electrical contractor to critique the quality of your home's wiring or a plumbing contractor to tell you how much of the plumbing needs to be "fixed". That would be like hiring the auto dealership's mechanic to give that used car an objective evaluation. Find a good, reputable home inspector and work it out with them, the seller and your mortgage provider. Happy hunting!
If you have concerns, hire someone to inspect and tell you what you want to hear. That's likely what you're going to get anyway from a realtor.
I've participated in the building of homes, barns, and other structures. Never had an "inspector". Didn't/don't know anything about 'building codes'. Never had an issue with any of the stuff I built.
" Pull the occupancy certificate for the home from the county. Have them re certify. If the seller or realtor is uncomfortable with that... pass"
HUH? What? You're making this up, right?
Do a search
I live in unincorporated part of the county, only required a permit for septic which the guy who put it in was also the county guy... besides that I only contracted out the slab, plumbing and roofing. Of those things I've only had trouble with plumbing and roof shingles... I did all the other construction myself, framing, insulation wiring, drywall, siding etc. I got books on how to and built everything to code or better based on national codes. Over 11 years ago and don't regret any of it, IMHO the inspections required are just another way for government to take your money for a false sense of security....
Where you lookin' to settle, Todd? If you're not too far from Kalispell I'd be happy to come look things over with/for you.
My Best experience was with a county head inspector when we built our own home in 1989. I sub contracted the concrete work..poured basement walls , foundation and flat work, electrical, plumbing , heating and air, etc. Each time an inspector would come to the home and leave a red tag or green tag to proceed. Easy peasy. Well not exactly. Everything was passed aside the final inspection. Head man comes over and red tags the basement steps. Builder was furious but he reinforced them more .. I could have rode my harley down those steps. Then the head inspector fails the house again. Then I got furious. So on a Monday morning I was at the county building and got there before the head inspector did. All the other inspectors were there also. So I went over to his desk, sat in his chair and put my feet up on the corner of his desk. Waited about 15 min and he enters. He ask me who the heck was I? I replied your worst nightmare and got up. I cut him no slack and told him he was about to become famous. I had a news crew on call. Then I pulled out some glossy pictures to show him. They were of model homes in the area from different builders . None of those home had the requirements he made me do. His face got red and he reached in the bottom drawer and pulls out my paperwork and OK'd it. Then I left. I reported him to Indianapolis and they removed him. The electrical inspector came in the machine shop I worked to inspect parts for the govt. and he told me the guy was gone in about 30 days.
I have decades of experience building houses. I am real good with log construction, and framing. Also I am well versed with the residential wiring code, as I have done all the wiring for 4 houses.
A few years ago I was looking for a career change. I was going to go to votech school and get licensed as a home inspector. Not to work for the county but to be hired out by private parties who wanted a house inspected before they bought it. I figured it was the perfect career for me.
I knew a gal who was a realtor. You have to get in with the realtors to be a home inspector, because they give you referrals. And Cathy said to me, "It is the wrong career for you. You are too honest. I got a deal all lined up, and get you hired to inspect the house, and you point out all the flaws and torpedo the deal, you won't get hired again. You need to pick a few flaws, to justify your pay, but you point out major flaws that torpedo the deal, you won't get any more work from me. I need inspectors who will work with me so that the deal will go through."
I was shocked to hear this but I figured Cathy knew what she was talking about. So I went to votech school and got a CDL instead.
I have done about 10 inspections for friends and relatives, and they always appreciated my input. I gave "thumbs down" on 7 of those deals and in every case my advice caused the buyer to get out of the deal.
sxsnuf: You did the appraisal for the state for Ted Kaczynski's shack? Ten by 18 with no running water? What did that thing appraise for?
Allen you are 100 per cent correct.
I agree with sxs. From what I have seen there , most bonafide contractors do work to good industry standards. But, as sxs pointed out, watch out for the DIY hillbillies. I have seen some almost unimaginable "construction".
When we bought this house we had a friend that does inspections come look at this place. He missed a bunch of stuff that I wish we had known about, but caught a few things that were helpful in making the decision to buy. I think we still would have bought this place knowing what we do now, but I would have negotiated some things. If I buy again I think I'll have it inspected twice by two different people to see what each find.
You can't trust an inspector picked by your "friendly realtor." But you can hire your own inspector and probably get your money's worth. Better yet hire 2 inspectors.
An inspection might cost $400, so spend the $800, well worth it.
We bought a fixer upper in Montana 3 years ago and promptly tore it down and rebuilt our home .
the fact that no government entity stood there telling me how to do it was awesome . I have years of construction experience and have seen plenty of junk built in states with enforced building codes .
use your networking skills to have someone with experience look over what you intend to buy . Discount 90% if anything the realtor says .
oh, and unless you hit the lottery or own a fortune 509 company you have probably missed the boat on being able to afford Montana dirt unless it’s in the eastern half .
government oversight is no guarantee you aren’t getting cheap built junk
There were also a couple small sheds on the property. Flat value for all "improvements" was $500. I only remember that one because it was, well, memorable.
Might suggest to the OP that home warranties can be purchased when the home is bought, The seller may kick in some or all. That is a piece of mind knowing if something goes haywire it is covered.
I would think the Unibomber's spread would be worth extra just due to the notoriety. Some folks bid up for stuff like that.
Have an retired FBI friend that was at the Kaczynski's "shed" find. Said it was very well built and it had a hidden "basement" dug under it that they discovered by accident!!
"Do a search"
WHY?? Not anything I really need to know. I live in a FREE state.