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Remnigton M-11 ?
MIKE WISKEY Member, Moderator Posts: 9,830 ******
edited June 2022 in Ask the Experts
I just picked this up at a local gun show, nice used cond. the barrel code is 'APP" which I read as March 1945. My ? is, when did Remington restart 'comercial' arms production, after ww2
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Not sure, but the bulk of their war production ended Feb. 29 1944 so I would guess shortly thereafter. My barrel code charts agrees with your March 45 birthdate. Bob
While I can't answer your question, I've got one of those old guns as a recent acquisition, too. Mine is much "newer" than yours though, with a code date of DUU (9/49). Those are neat shotguns; mine is period complete with an old pacmyer pad, Polychoke, suicide safety, and "fence gouges". The old timers would carry those guns with their right hand around the receiver as they approached a fence and lay the bottom/left side of the receiver at the point where it joins the forestock on the top strand of the fence and push the fence down to step over it. I guess the idea was to protect their hand! I've seen my Dad and my uncle do that many times when we were pheasant hunting and it always made me shudder! Those old pheasant guns had deep scratches in the receiver and stock at those points.
with a code date of DUU (9/49). Those are neat shotguns; mine is period complete with an old pacmyer pad, Polychoke, suicide safety,"...............interesting, you will note that this one has the newer 'trigger guard' safety
Mike, remember dating the year of a Remington shotgun is a bit of a guess. Serial numbers won't give you much info and coded barrels may not be original to the gun. Mr. Browning made a heck of good design and I wouldn't worry too much about the date, just enjoy. Bob
" I wouldn't worry too much about the date,"..........I very much aware of the 'dating' issue but was suprised by the ww2 production date.
also the 'newer' type safty, the older suicide type safety was considered 'pre' ww2 and Ambroses later shotgun (presumably) with the earlier safty (parts clean-up?) btw my ser. # is 714366
Mike; That IS interesting! The serial # on mine is 126952 and the barrel has the same number stamped on the base of the ring that goes around the magazine. How does that number compare with yours? The book on the Ithaca 37 by Walter Claude Snyder, indicates that, when war production began, Ithaca had partially finished guns that they were unable to complete because they couldn't get materials (steel) to make the missing parts. No doubt Remington had the same issues. One or both of our guns may have lain in limbo until war production wound down.
As Bobjudy wrote, Remington war contracts, at least regarding 1903-A3/A4 production, expired at the end of February, 1944. But there was still a lot of war to be fought! The germans didn't surrender until May, 1945 (a couple months after your shotguns date code) and the japanese didn't quit until August, 1945. The invasion of japan was scheduled for the spring of 1946!! So it makes sense that war production would have proceeded full pace in most areas for Remington as well as other industries. Our shotguns would NOT have been a priority.
(Sorry about the history lecture.)
Another note: The 1945 edition of the Shooter's Bible lists the price of the Remington 11 at $68.15. I paid $250 for mine about 3 years ago. What did you pay for yours?
" the barrel has the same number stamped on the base of the ring"...........same here, # is the same as the receiver so it is the original barrel.
"What did you pay for yours?"............$220, I considered it a 'bargain'
according to my charts the only time Rem. use the 3 letter code was 1943-1953 (mm to zz)
"In the early days of WWII, the war dept. locked down and scooped up all the 12 ga. repeating shotguns that were in manufacturers inventory. They used them for aerial gunnery training. I wonder if your gun was a left-over that was assembled late for that purpose and then never made it to the military."
just as an 'aside' I carried a m-11 in 'Nam on guard duty. it had a short barrel and was stamped "military finish" along with the ordanace bomb
I probably should quit beating this post to death but it gets "curiouser & curiouser". I found a write-up on the Model 11 in the Remington history by Roy Marcot: He states that in April, 1928 Remington made changes in the 11 including crossbolt safety and finer checkering. Since my gun has the sliding safety, that suggests that my gun pre-dates 1928! The serial number that is well over 1/2 million lower than yours, assuming anything like sequential, suggests that, too. But if so, what's it doing with matching serial number barrel with a 1949 date code (UU)!? I have seen Remington guns with more than one date code stamp and have read somewhere that a gun returned to Remington for repair was date coded again. Could my gun have escaped the original date code and then returned to Remington in 1949 and then date stamped. My gun shows no sign of ever having checkering, has no markings or decorations on the receiver, and the bolt is deeply stamped MODELll.
I would also consider the $220 for your gun a bargain and I consider the $250 I paid for mine as money well spent. I like it even more now that I know it's an enigma.
In the early days of WWII, the war dept. locked down and scooped up all the 12 ga. repeating shotguns that were in manufacturers inventory. They used them for aerial gunnery training. I wonder if your gun was a left-over that was assembled late for that purpose and then never made it to the military.
A neighbor had a Model 11 in the old days but I never had a chance to examine it. Marcot's book states that 850,000+ were sold so I probably saw more of them in my old pheasant hunting days but passed them off as A5's. Incidentally, Marcot also mentioned that Remington made A5's for Browning 1940-42 while the germans occupied Belgium and again 1945-48 until Belgium production resumed. Remington made 64,731 A5's for Browning
If you remove the trigger plate you'll find a sn# stamped on the side of the tang. Is it possible your gun has had an earlier trigger plate installed?