In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
Browning safari 25-06 (BAR) Ammunition recommendations
Pipefitter69
Member Posts: 11 ✭
Hello all,
I have been attempting to find what my BAR 25-06 likes. Just tried hornady 117 gr whitetail with pretty sad results. Look fair horizontal 1", but vertical is 3" to 4 1/2" at 100 yards. 3 shot groups and allowing the barrel to cool. 25 yard groups where 1/4" horizontal and 1 5/8" vertical. So, you can see that we are atleast consistant.
Thanks in advance,
Doyle
Comments
Remove the scope and mounts. Apply lock tight to screws, torque mount screws, install scope and top rings, apply lock tight to screws, torque screws. If no torque driver, just make sure they are good and tight! Dad had the same issue years ago with his BAR. Dealer installed his new scope because he didn't wanna bring it to me for such a simple task. Well......dealer did not use lock tight nor torque it correctly. Hits were very random you yours are.
Simplest first! Hornady USUALLY has outstanding ammo. Try a diff brand, if you find out it is Hornady ammo...contact them. They will send you a label and inspect the ammo. They will also replace it for you!
My bet is the scope or mount is loose!
Re checked the torque. Broke the screws at 20 in/lbs and retorqed at 18/lbs. Shooting a 1/4" x 1 5/8" group at 25 yards. Shoots a 1" x 4"-5" group at 100 yards. (Horizontal x vertical) all this of course is slow to allow the barrel to cool. It is extremly consistent with these groups. 270 bar, same rest, 130 HAW ammo shoots a 1 1/4" with an occasional flyer. I had a picky browning 25-06 Abolt that would only shoot hornady custom ammo, but.......
I'd check the crown with a magnifying glass for anything that might deflect the bullet as it leaves the muzzle. Something cheap and easy to do.
You know, i thought about that too. Only because it looked odd to me. Blew it up with my phone and lights and just could not tell. New rifle, but as i was waiting for the barrel to cool i could see a strange place in the barrel 6" from the end. The bluing just looked strange. I think I am over thinking the whole thing cause it took 4 brands the last time and then it was sub MOA.....wouldn't be that bad if ammunition wasnt so hard to find.
...
With a vertical spread like that, I'm going to suggest (and you may not like this) shooter error.
How you hold the rifle can and will make a big difference in POI even with a moderate recoil like the 25/06.
Here's an example: Due to severe shoulder damage, a 25/06 is my upper end of comfortable shooting. This is what I use for elk. After zeroing from a bench @ 100 yards, I do longer distance checking @300 meters using a BogPod from a seated position. I found that the POI was several inches low compared to published ballistics charts. The cause: When shooting from the bench, I wasn't putting any downward force on the forend. When shooting from the BogPod, I was holding the forend firmly down onto the support--made a significant difference in POI.
I used to shoot long range target stuff using a 300 Win mag. ANY deviation in holding the rifle during recoil made a huge difference in POI beyond 300 yards. On the range doing rifle checks prior to an elk hunt in Colorado, I watched a guy blow through an entire box of 270 ammo in a BAR w/o achieving what I'd consider acceptable results. I was watching him shoot and his main issue was what I just said--inconsistent recoil attenuation and/or holding the forend inconsistently.
But if it was shooter deviation wouldnt the pattern change? Wouldnt the bar 270 shoot similarly given the typical circumstances?
Vertical stringing can be a sign of a hot barrel. Is your first shot always where it should be at?
No, well, 2 weeks ago I had 3 left over federal rounds and all three shot in the same hole (Sierra game king) discontinued. Same day i shot Nosler ballistic tips. Due to an error in judgment at the range the rest of the day went no where. So, i found some hornady American whitetail. 3 shots at 25 yards where close horizontal but terrible vertical. So, i calculated the adjustments, chocked it up to user error waited for the barrel to cool. Shot 3 times exact same grouping pattern, horizontal tight, vertical wide. So, again thinking i would rule out user error. Let the barrel cool and shot the same group. 1/4" horizontal and 1 5/8" vertical to less than a 1/16". So, i moved out to 100 yards and well. The results at 25 yards simply where exactly amplified at 100. I use hornady ammunition to this day due to another finicky browning Abolt 25-06 that did not like anything..........then she met Hornady Custom ammo.........
I was also shooting a browning bar 270. Shoots a 1/14" groups with the same rest, same target ect
I bought a used BAR once that the fore end screw was over tightened on that shot the same way once I loosened thar it shot like a completely different gun
Some rifles are very finicky about the ammo they shoot. If it shot the Game Kings well and Federal doesn't load that anymore you may have to handload Game Kings and experiment a little to get the desired groups or try several different brands of ammo which can get expensive. Sierra makes great bullets at reasonable prices and the Game Kings are excellent.
Wolf pack, there in lies the problem. I would love hand load and have looked into it. However, i terrible time finding components. As matter fact, I have had a terrible time finding ammunition. I was kinda hopeing another BAR owner or 25-06 fan would stumble across this and say, "oh yeah, try these!" Ill bet if I changed this to 270 or 300 bar...............
Wolf pack, I was looking at a .280 cooper rifle and thats why i was looking into reloading. I have two manuals and I am just waiting for components to become available..
Just pick a differnet high quality ammo and try it(even a diff lot # of the same ammo if nothing else is available). The only time I ever experienced a spread that wide was either.....shooter error, scope or rings loose, or defective scope/sights. I know there are other things that could be going on, but IMHO those are most likely. I've never known BARs to be tack drivers, BUT 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards is easily within the BARs capability. Keep the Hornady whitetail and try something else. If those shoot sub MOA, then contact Hornady and the will take care of you.
Mikess,
If it was a loose mount or shooter error wouldn't it be all over the place? Shooting overwhelmingly verticle, and wouldn't show up in the other rifle? Gonna try sst's in the next week or so, and I emailed Hornady to see if they had any recommendations.
I know they ain't sexy, but find some Remington Core Lokt's and give 'em a whirl. They're the most accurate factory ammo from my .270 Win. Maybe they'll work in your .25-06.
Yeah they shoot well in my 270 also. I will try em
Not necessarily, shooter error can(and usually is) replicated over and over. Think of it as a bad habit. But I suspect loose scope parts, or defective scope here. Screws SLIGHTLY loose would allow VERY little movement with each recoil. That could move POA left right by 1,000s of inch at the gun, but inches at 100 yards.
I would def try another ammo 1st. Then if similar results, check the scope(since you already retorqued all the hardware)....I assume you checked the scope base hardware too! Usually the scope mount(whatever you have connected to the receiver..rail, base, etc) is where the loose hardware is, because you have to remove the scope the check it, and most folks don't wanna take the scope completely off.
PS...I have had awful luck with core lokt ammo. LOL. Just sayin'.
Mike,
My last 25-06, browning a-bolt, would not shoot remington ammunition, period, or 3 other manufacturers. I ended up buying a box of hornady custom ammunition. That box changed it all. Remington is going thru a bankruptcy and has had some issues. I have been loyal to a fault with hornady and I think I am gonna try SST, or Maybe even ELD-X.
Pipefitter that Cooper in a 280 Rem is a great gun in a very capable caliber. I would like to have a Cooper 52 in 25-06 myself, been on the lookout for one. I have a Kimber 8400 in 25-06 and love it. it shoots 110 Accubonds really well. My son has a TC Encore in 25-06 that he shoots Deer Season XP and they shoot well and do a fantastic job on deer. I also have a BAR in 7mm mag and it does well with just the plain old power points, 1.25" at a 100 yds with a good rest. A BAR can be a very accurate rifle. Reloading components are hard to find right now. Toad is right, hot barrels will tend to string vertically but three shots and allowing to cool shouldn't be an issue. if you have no other rifles stringing like this then it is not shooter error especially if it shot well with the Game Kings. I would think if it shot the Game Kings well this eliminates problems with the mounts and scope. Looks to me like you need range time and different ammo to try. Let us know the results please.
Wolf pack,
Shot today as matter of fact. The problem was a loose forestock. I felt it when i was cleaning the rifle. I assume the it was sitting between the rest sides and that allowed the barrel to move vertically substantially. I have the groups down to about 1.25 with both the 25-06 and 270. .5 group at 50 yards which acceptable for my hunting situation. I can tighten the groups I think, it is simply a matter of finding ammunition. As far as the 280 goes, well thats comeing in the next year or so saveing $ now, lol.
Good deal! Thanks for the update!!!!
I shoot NOSLER E-Tip factory loads. Not as accurate as my handloads but I'm buying bullet performance with acceptable accuracy.
Great news Pipe. I am glad you got it sorted out. Good luck out hunting with it.
Steyr 25/06 is accurate with all I have shot .. Remington, Winchester, Serbian , Nosler. However the Hornady shoots high with the whitetail and higher with the superformance.