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Fuel Cell Engines to Power First US Hydrogen Train

serfserf Member Posts: 9,225 ✭✭✭✭
edited October 2022 in Politics


Well I guess this is a prototype experiment. I assume it will be electrical driven for the torque requirements. I suspect fuel costs will be it's biggest problem so all freight costs are to skyrocket. Now if a government subsides the fare for passengers then It will be ithe only working carrier for now.

Diesel is already a 1.50 more than gasoline no, so you see the pattern. It's already being taxed to the consumer with a hidden surcharge. The energy companies will just use these profits to transfer the technology to a carbon free fuel and try to lower the cost of alternate fuels. No free lunch here,

serf

https://www.electricvehiclesresearch.com/articles/27825/ballard-to-supply-fuel-cell-engines-to-power-first-us-hydrogen-train

Ballard Power Systems has announced an order from Stadler Rail AG, a leading manufacturer of rolling stock, for the supply of six 100 kW FCmoveTM-HD+ fuel cell engines to power the first hydrogen train in the United States.

Comments

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭✭

    It's about time that we look to hydrogen as a fuel. The earth has an inexhaustible supply and the only emission is water. Right now the cost of producing hydrogen is higher than gas or diesel but its energy efficiency is greater. If demand increases then costs for fuel will come down as more production facilities come on line and production tech advances.

    Reading your article, yes this will be an electric train, powered by fuel cells. Not sure about your freight cost comment because this is a commuter train. Locally we have buses that are powered by hydrogen internal combustion engines. Because of how clean it burns, the engines last much longer. Also the days of choking on diesel fumes while sitting in traffic next to a bus are history. I for one don't miss the stink. There are some companies that use hydrogen in their fleet of cars and trucks also. Seems like it would be a lot faster to fuel one of those than it is to charge an EV. We should forget all this EV nonsense and look at alternatives like hydrogen. Bob

  • serfserf Member Posts: 9,225 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2022


    Well Bob All the politicians in The E.U.agree with you but there is a fly in the ointment.read below. Looks like that fusion reactor they are researching/building is a better gamble.Don't you thinK? We need a Fusion Manhattan project instead of a war in Ukraine but I think they want the chaos first with solutions later after a few million people perish with the help of fission power .😒

    serf

    https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/20/shipping-liquid-hydrogen-would-be-at-least-5-times-as-expensive-as-lng-per-unit-of-energy/

    Shipping Liquid Hydrogen Would Be At Least 5 Times As Expensive As LNG Per Unit Of Energy


  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭✭

    Fusion reactors would be nice for electrical infrastructure. However, they don't translate to having convenient transportation. If you stay with battery powered EVs, yes you will have power to charge them with fusion but still have all of the battery inconveniences. Things like; long charging time, limited range, dependency on unfriendly governments for battery materials, pollution generated from mining and battery manufacture, limited battery life with high replacement cost, pollution and waste from recycling those batteries and so on. If you have unlimited fusion power, why would you ship hydrogen around the world like they talk about in your link? Making it in each country would be the key.

    We will probably never know because since existing engines can be converted to hydrogen, there isn't enough money in it for the politicians. No expensive rare earth minerals, no batteries that have to be replaced, not as much "green" energy needed because cars wouldn't need charging, etc... This is what happens when the voters elect based on personality instead of competence. Instead of patriotic constitutional scholars representing their voters, we have a bunch of what were probably in an earlier life, used car salesmen. Bob

  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,317 ✭✭✭✭

    I have tried to find a economical home natural gas compressor so I can convert my rigs to natural gas. I get free natural gas for my home. They are very expensive, so expensive they would never pay for themselves. We need all forms of energy to be developed until one becomes the clear winner like gas and diesel are now and AC electric won over DC.

  • 62vld204262vld2042 Member Posts: 425 ✭✭✭

    I wonder what the total energy input, to "create" a fuel cell.......IS........compared to the total energy output of the cell.

    There are always..........losses.

    I'm sure the info is "out there"...........somewhere.

  • truthfultruthful Member Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭✭

    Okay, where do you suppose the hydrogen for the fuel cells is going to come from? Most hydrogen production uses natural gas as the feed stock. Woops, there's that nasty fossil fuel again! Some hydrogen is made by hydrolysis of water .... passing a direct electric current through water-filled cells...... so where did THAT electricity come from? Huh?

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭✭

    This says that even with producing the hydrogen from fossil fuels the greenhouse gases would be cut in half because those gases would only be produced on the production end and not by the vehicles that use the hydrogen. Also it states the use of fossil fuels could be cut by 90%.

    So called green energy would serve us better if it was used to produce hydrogen that could be used to generate electricity when the sun don't shine and the wind isn't blowing. And it could also power our vehicles instead of those batteries that have multiple strikes against them. The combustion of hydrogen creates only pure water - what greenie could be against that? If we are forced to go green, I think hydrogen and nuclear are the only viable alternatives to burning fossil fuel. Bob

  • serfserf Member Posts: 9,225 ✭✭✭✭

    Pink Hydrogen.just might be able to fill the gaps their Bob and The Japanese have the technology to pull it off with their miniature nuclear reactors,

    serf

    https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/hydrogen-colour-spectrum

  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,204 ✭✭✭✭

    The production of hydrogen through electrolysis is one of our best long term solutions for vehicular power going forward. We need an order of magnitude improvement in batteries for them to be viable for mining, farming and freight hauling, but hydrogen power is technologically viable today with internal combustion engines. Nuclear electrical generation is a must for this of course as it is viable technology albeit politically sensitive.

    This rail application is a positive step to proof effectiveness and safety, and is, IMO, a good thing.

    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 64,309 ******

    Fuel cells are one of the green energies that is actually viable. I don't see them sabotaging it with inflated prices, like they're doing with gasoline and diesel.

    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • truthfultruthful Member Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭✭

    Won't a hydrogen train make a spectacular train wreck. Maybe they will name it the Hindenburg Special.

  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 64,309 ******
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
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