Transfer dealer tossed out the bolt to a rifle....buyer wants US to "work it out"...good grief!
Locust Fork
Member Posts: 31,686 ✭✭✭✭
Every time I think I've faced every situation imaginable.... a moron comes along and proves there is no peak to moron mountain and we're all just lucky to be alive at this point.
I send the gun out to the FFL. This guy decides to open the box instead of sitting it to the side and letting the buyer do the honors....which is something I'll never understand because it leaves the transfer dealer alone in whatever he unboxes. Like this instance.
The transfer dealer SWEARS the bolt was not shipped with the gun and fully supports the buyer's decision to dispute the charges on his credit card. Of course he does! The buyer isn't taking the high road either.....leaving it to "us" to figure things out.
I've called and emailed the buyer several times and left messages.....which have not been returned, leaving me to believe this guy is either terrified to speak to me or as shifty as the transfer dealer. Either way both of these guys are not "men" at all, but a lesser version of the male species for sure.
I took the high road and offered to buy a replacement bolt and the transfer dealer would be responsible for half of the cost. No reply at all so far.....but I know what is coming. If they were worth their weight in salt I would have gotten a call back or reply to my offer.
At this point I'm just waiting to hear from my credit card processor. Disputing the charges isn't as easy as some believe......they are going to find this out the hard way. This is when my offer will become much more appealing and I'm certain I'll hear something from the buyer at that point. I'll have the replacement bolt in hand by that point and I'll be willing to pay a LOT less than half to send it to him. He can order one at full price for all I care and I'll spray paint the one I have GOLD and make a keychain out of it.
I'm telling you people.....I'm a lot less medicated than I should be to deal with the public like I do.
Comments
They walk among us. I don't know how you do it unless you drink on the job.
In the transfer dealers defense, he has to open the box to get the details off the gun to check it in. Not sure how many stores have time to just do it whenever the buyer shows up. Also it has to be checked in the day its received, only a few of our customers come on the same day.
I don't see an analogy in any other business transaction. The best I can think of is a sticker on the shipping package that says " To be opened only by the buyer."
🤣🤣😃
Some days I just don't see how you do it Kasey.
LF I am with you on the medicated part. I have to deal with the public every day plus the several govt. agencies. I know it won’t make it any easier but try dealing with different govt. agencies these days, makes the public look like they are a genius.
The public makes my job more difficult and time consuming everyday because I have to come up with another business rule and add another cost.
I have finally come to the conclusion that I am going to be tough as a rock and charge higher prices. That way I deal with people who appreciate my services, make the same amount of money, enjoy life more and spend less on trying to get medicated from dealing with the morons.
You are not ever going to change the morons.
Kasey, just out of curiosity, was it a bolt action gun you shipped? 😀🤣
Is the box OK?
Exactly spot on. FFL has to record Gun info and SSN into log.
Have bought bolt guns mostly milsurp with a detached bolt I have to hunt for within the box and packing. This is not fun. Popcorn is the worst and tend to dump the entire mess in a trash can and search for the bolt.
If I ship a bolt gun, the box will be installed, packed, and positioned so it wont burst thru the box.
We ship a LOT of guns.....and we get a lot of shipped guns in. The number of bolts I've seen come out the side of a box is shocking. They mishandle the boxes so much in route. It takes a lot less packaging and its a lot quicker to take the bolt out.....put it in a bubble wrap envelope and then wrap it with the gun. Shipping 40-50 long guns in one week, you'll find little ways to pack things up nice and safe without each box taking 30 minutes to pack or using $20 in packing material for each item.
As far as unboxing....we set transfers to the side. When the customer comes in to get it, they open the box and we log it in while they are filling out their 4473. It makes it so they are the one to find any missing nonsense or paperwork not included. If the dealer's FFL is not in the box I'll let them use our phone to call them and get it sent over. I'm not worried about a box that ships in for someone else until I have to deal with it.
There is an auction company that sends these GIANT boxes filled with peanuts and every gun inside will be rolled up in bubble wrap and plastic wrap. That mess takes forever to unbox.....and the buyer gets to deal with every peanut and all the layers of plastic wrap himself. We don't charge for transfers and I only do it for people that we do business with or I've known.....so I don't worry too much over them here.
My FFl has always opened the box and confirmed and logged the serial number into his record books. I am not an FFl but if I were it would be opened and logged in ASAP. That being said you do need to be extra careful about any extra parts that may be in the box. Tough situation here, I can understand LF point when she states that the bolt was with the rifle. but If I were the buyer I would not want to spend extra for another bolt and then pay a gunsmith to check headspace.
I've worked for 2 "hobby" FFLs. The first would wait a day or so & let the buyer open the box. At times we had notes in the book to maintain the dates received straight. The second dealer would open boxes right away, when no one else was there. I eventually found out that he was pilfering accessories & blaming the sender. Enough for me & I left.
You could notify the BATFE that you suspect the FFL is stealing parts to make off the record guns.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
You fulfilled your obligation when you shipped the rifle and it was received. In my opinion, that should be the end of your involvement. If the receiving ffl caused a problem, the remedy should be all on him. You didn't cause the problem, he did and you should make him fix it. Why should you take a loss or even worry about it? Bob
Because the buyer is disputing the CC charge.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
There should be a record of delivery by the carrier and emails explaining the ffl lost the bolt. With that evidence the dispute should be moot. Of course that would be the logical conclusion, but logic and common sense are rapidly becoming scarce. So yes, I can see her wanting to help out to avoid problems, but shouldn't the yahoo that lost the bolt be ultimately responsible? Bob
"but shouldn't the yahoo that lost the bolt be ultimately responsible?"
Why yes, yes he should. He should "man up" and secure a bolt and pay to have the headspace checked/corrected. He should hand the buyer a functional firearm, because that's what he bought.
Some of you need to have more detail awareness. Not pointing fingers just stating the obvious. 😵
Per Kasey: "The transfer dealer SWEARS the bolt was not shipped with the gun and fully supports the buyer's decision to dispute the charges on his credit card."
If the bolt was wrapped separately it probably got thrown out with the packing?
Tough one for you AND the buyer, I would say. From the buyer’s perspective, he likely knows (or at least is familiar with) the local transfer dealer. He doesn’t know you. What is the buyer to do, and who is he to believe? All he knows is what he bought didn’t make it to him….. and apparently at no fault of his own. Can’t say I blame him for wanting to just get out of the whole situation.
In any case, sorry to hear you’re having to deal with this. Life and business is hard enough without having to deal with extras like this. Good luck, and I hope you’re able to work it out.
It seems odd that when the rifle was inspected and the bolt appeared to be missing, the obvious solution would be to look in the packaging. My garbage is picked up once a week, plenty of time to sort thru the box and bubblewrap. It looks as if someone was looking for compensation for the missing (maybe) bolt . Ask that the firearm be returned and move on.
First: ALWAYS KEEP THE SHIPPING BOX UNTILL THE TRANSFER IS COMPLETE. No insurance claim will be honored without that box. If the receiving FFL threw out the box before delivering the firearm, then that is the end of the discussion. If he retained the box and you are sure the bolt was in the box, which I am sure you are, then the dealer and customer are looking for some cash from you. Hang in there Kasey.
My whole thing about who should be trusted to be telling the truth.....if you just look at my feedback it is filled with thousand of statements on how well we pack our boxes. With 15300 feedbacks and all the comments saying we pack our items VERY well I'd say that is proof that its slim to no chance we did this one box poorly. I'll be telling the credit card company to look at this when they make their decision.
Tossed it out or otherwise lost it? NO WAY! The guy stole the bolt. Look up gun parts and see what bolts are going for.
For instance, I see Win. Model 67 bolts going for $150 to $175. I also see complete guns going for around that price. Crazy!
I ordered a new Ruger .44 mag a few years ago and the dealer (that I knew well) opened it when I wasn't there which was ok except he also let another customer handle it and of course the first thing the fool did was to spin the cylinder, needless to say I was AND STILL AM PO'd . That was the last firearm I ever bought from him.
That dealer should have bought you a new gun.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
That's what I think too, and if that dealer was a stand-up fella he would have done so.
This whole thing will end up costing me around $500 in the end just to be done with it and move forward. I can fight the mess and the credit card company will eventually rule in my favor after jumping through hoops and going back and forth over several months. Right now it hasn't even come to that, the guy said he will dispute the charges....but I haven't seen anything yet. The bolt cost around $300 to replace and I'll have to get my gunsmith to check it out to make sure the headspace is good. So, with shipping it back to me and getting the replacement bolt handled I figure I'll tell the cc processor I'll agree to a refund to him minus the costs of getting it back to 100%. Either way, the fastest way to deal with this is to get the gun back here and move forward.
Good reason to not accept cards. Sorry...
In my opinion, the dealer kept it for himself. Probably saw it and thought "oh yeah, I need one of those!" I say go 100% scorched earth on him with the CC company, and then some. He lied, this whole thing is on his shoulders (and your customer, for going along with it), and if they want to cause this kind of trouble for you, time to make an example out of them both.
I imagine you pack your items to ship about like I do, which is on the slightly excessive side, and the only way any part would come up missing is if the entire package itself got lost.
At some level you have to....there is no way around it. You can do a small number of sales and not take cards, but to do large numbers you MUST take them. Most consignors know more buyers are looking at sellers that take cards so they aren't going to let you take their collections unless you are able to entice more buyers. There are more buyers that want to pay with cards so they watch out for sellers that take cards. They are a necessary evil.....I personally hate cards.
Yes taking the gun back looks to be the best road . Folks that have never worked with the public in gun sales will never understand the depths of stupidity that exist in the world .