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Serious question

ElMuertoMonkeyElMuertoMonkey Member Posts: 12,898
edited December 2007 in US Military Veteran Forum
How many of you hold a grudge against the Vietnamese? This isn't a trolling question and I'm not trying to bait anyone. I once worked for a man who saw action in Korea and had zero problem with the Chinese (even the communist ones), but couldn't stand the North Koreans (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Or, after these many years, is this a really stupid question? I can imagine why you might and I can imagine why you might not, but my imagination is not your words.
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  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000 ✭
    edited November -1
    North and South Viet Nam were both corrupt. I hold a grudge against the Vietnamese politicians. I also hold a grudge against the NVA. They were the cruelest and most barbaric soldiers I had ever seen. I cannot, and will not, tell you of the atrocities they committed on a daily basis.
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  • Grunt2Grunt2 Member Posts: 2,525 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I hold a grudge..... Marvin the ARVN was worthless! Worked with some 'Yards once...Now there was some spirit! And "I" believe they were the true Patriots..! Did meet a few civilians that were pretty cool...but they were the exception rather than the rule...
    Retired LEO
    Combat Vet VN
    D.A.V Life Member
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  • Da-TankDa-Tank Member Posts: 3,718 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hate em!!!!!!!!!! COM BIC
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  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    I have found that over the nearly fourty years since I was in the vicinity of Vietnamese that my feelings toward them have mellowed. While I was there I had a respect for the abilities of the NVA however I couldn't understand why the ARVNs were so spineless, particularly since some SVN Ranger units were higly motivated. I am beginning to undrestand the reasons why each were the way they were and can accept them as they were. I have also begun to accept them as they are now, and us as we are now.

    So while the sound of Vietnamese being spoken still elicits a negative emotional response from me, once the response has subsided, logic can take-over.
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  • gap1916gap1916 Member Posts: 4,977
    edited November -1
    I hold a gruge aginst LBJ.
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  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't hold a grudge against them as a people; but as a people, if I was them I'd certainly hold a grudge against me. I do hold a grudge against the four VNAF Skyraider pilots who deliberately strafed my platoon and killed seven men, however.
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  • divecopdivecop Member Posts: 778 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I guess I've mellowed out in my old age. But my opinion is they didn't care who was running the country, they only cared about where
    the next bowl of rice was coming from, they didn't care who gave it
    to them. As far as the VC, they were a savage, determined army that
    would do anything inhumane they could think of to demoralize the
    Americans.
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  • robparobpa Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I left VN in 68 and still carry some grudges, fewer towards the Viet people than the protesting slime in the U.S and the bas---ds who stiffled us from winning the war. I dont think I will ever come to terms with the whole thing.
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  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    Robpa- It was not the US's war to win or lose. we were in the role of bigger brother helping out his little brother until little brother able to do on own. So winning would have been either convince North Vietnam to stgay at home and leave the south alone, or for South Vietnam to get a government that benefitted the people sufficient to cause the people to want to keep it. Neither of these options was up to the US to provide, so to be redundant, it was not the US's position to either win or lose the war, however, history his showing that the goals the US had have been or are being met, such as Vietnam breaking from a totally Communistic state and promoting a market society.
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  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    The only grudge and anger I still hold is against Jane Hanoi Fonda.

    No animosity against the Vietnamese--they were getting the foreign devils out of their country (forget the political BS, we were replacing the French).
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  • robparobpa Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    RayB, I understand what you are saying; I felt our duty there to allow the south to organize a government, seperate from the North. I think it could have been possible given enuff time, I dont mean years & years. It would have been similar to what is hoped for in Iraq, a stable democratic govt in an communist, now Islamofacist, area.? I have always felt the reasons for war were justified.
    I dont know how its gonna come down in VN now, some good signs, I guess.
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  • Tiger6Tiger6 Member Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Interesting question and one that I have not considered in this manner. Do I Hold a grudge against the Vietnamese? As a people, I do not. However, there are some that deserve killing for war crimes and just plain brutality. I hold serious issues with the foreign advisors to the VC & NVA that we ran into.
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  • ElMuertoMonkeyElMuertoMonkey Member Posts: 12,898
    edited November -1
    Tiger6,

    Which foreign advisors did you meet up with during your stay in Vietnam? I'm guessing they were Chinese?
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  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    Monkey- not to hijack your question regarding advisors, but in Nov'67 I was with B/1/5 and we captured a Chinese soldier. I don't recall what his rank was. I've heard that there were also Russians, but all that I saw from Russia was arms & munitions.
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  • Tiger6Tiger6 Member Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ElMuertoMonkey, 2 Chinese & 1 tall, white & mean SOB who spoke Russian.
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  • br549br549 Member Posts: 1,024 ✭
    edited November -1
    I don't have any hate left only sadness.
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  • D.K.D.K. Member Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by gap1916
    I hold a gruge aginst LBJ.



    Gap and I are pretty close here. I blame all the politicians
    who think war is a game to be played by civilzed rules.

    I go absolutely beserk when I hear of our Gulf kids being tried
    for "murdering" one of the enemy! Our worst enemy is our own
    government, even in time of war!

    Jane Fonda makes the top of my list! [xx(]
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  • D.K.D.K. Member Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
    Tiger6,

    Which foreign advisors did you meet up with during your stay in Vietnam? I'm guessing they were Chinese?




    My guess would be....Cuban!
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  • alaska 207alaska 207 Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I does my heart good to see Hanoi Jane mentioned with such open hostility. gripe should have been shot, but then again that would be a waste of a perfectly good bullet.
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  • Broomie2Broomie2 Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Maybe I'm wrong for feeling this way, but I hate the whole dam lot of them. Don't think I will ever find it in me to forgive anyone.
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  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886 ✭
    edited November -1
    Hi, givette here. While back in camp, I became confused when some VN's were celebrating a holiday. I new it wasn't tet. And so I asked. Come to find out that the [allies] (VN's) were celebrating Ho Chi Minh's birthday. I then asked myself,...whatinthehell 'm I dooing here?? I felt so, I guess the word is..betrayed? So I tried to cheer up by drowning my funk in a big bottle of rice wine (basidei), and walking a few feet down the road to the skivvy-house, and getting laid. If I dwell on it, I still become confused as to the real reason why my butt was over there. But that only happens during the rare moment WHEN I dwell on it. No, I don't hate (those) people. No grudge. Glad to get out, that's all. This may be awkward, but the only thing Vietnam taught me was/is to feel "naked" without some sort of firearm nearby.
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  • jimbo4261jimbo4261 Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You can never win a war if there is no objective ,if lines on some map dictate the max advance you can go,,, and if you do no understand their religion,,,with that said,,how the hell do we expect to "win" in the moslem world???? jim haley USS Navarro APA 215,,oct.62-apl.65 (oh yeah,,their aint no civilians in a war,,only the enemy)
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  • Vic FirmanVic Firman Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Retired Navy...1974-1995. I didn't join the Army or the Corps because of the M-16 rifle (not knowing I had other options). I felt I had to contribute in some manner and ended up on a Knox Class frigate which is Anti Submarine Warefare. I was severly irritated when I found out we were normalizing relationships with VietNam. My point would be the same as any one here that the brutality and inhumane treatment of US troops will never be forgiven. I know we were most likely guilty of the same acts. Although never "in country", I felt the frustration growing up as a kid in the 60's and seeing night after night the garbage you guys went through. In April of 1975, my ship was deployed on WESTPAC preparing to return to the states. The commanding officer requested extension of the "cruise" to be a part of the pull-out. He was denied. So I missed the opportunity to be a small part in your efforts. BTW...Fonda should have been tried for treason.[:(!]
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  • davecampperrydavecampperry Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have no hard feelings toward the 'enemy Vietnamese'. They were young, adventurous, patriotic, brave, scared, and following orders. Sound familiar? Greg Boyington, Joe Foss, Douglas MacArthur, and my dad all forgave our WWII enemies, and I would be less of a man if I held a grudge, after what they went through. No, my hatred is for jane jungle rot fonda, that traitor. AND for T. Kennedy, because while I was risking my life protecting little girls, he was drowning them. Cold shower time! dave
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  • golf311golf311 Member Posts: 10 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah, a definite grudge against the Air Force pilot who dropped a 500lb "Firecracker" bomb directly on our position.
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  • Sky SoldierSky Soldier Member Posts: 460 ✭
    edited November -1
    +1 on davecampperry's post.
    As far as holding a grudge against the Vietnamese we were fighting with, we were all just soldiers doing our "jobs" so what's to hold a grudge about.
    I can't even imagine a suitable curse for "Hanoi Jane" and Ted K is and always will be a P.O.S.
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  • sdkimmer619sdkimmer619 Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm new to this whole forum and was fascinated by this topic. I am an American-born Vietnamese whose parents worked alongside the Americans during the war.

    I was in Vietnam just a few weeks ago visiting family and in talking to the older people, no one holds any hostilities or grudges against the Americans. In fact, many people have "forgotten" the war and have moved on with their lives. Some places are still rebuilding and others have just started.

    I spent my entire vacation in South Vietnam, in and around Saigon. Many of the people I talked to were still appreciative of the American effort in the war. They had nothing but nice things to say about Americans.

    Vietnam today is completely different from Vietnam during the war. They are moving towards a capitalist society and the economic development and growth of the areas I visited is astounding! I don't know if any of you have been back since the end of the war, but I suggest that you do! It's so beautiful and the people are so kind.

    I guess I'm just saying that the Vietnamese (the ones I talked to, anyway) have moved on and are concentrating on today. Thank you to the Vietnam Vets who risked and gave their lives to help my people (The Southern Vietnamese). My family will forever be in your debt because if it wasn't for you, my family would not be here today.

    Kim Nguyen
    San Diego, CA
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  • koolkiller6koolkiller6 Member Posts: 124 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had to respond to this one. i've gotten over the ill feelings I had for the NVA/VC.What I will never get over is the slime balls that were running this country. Does McNor amara sound familiar? I agree that Hanoi Jane and her fellow traitors were and still are worse than the bad guys.
    As a ending to this, during my evaluations by VA I had a Vietnamese Dr. do a work up on PTSD and a beautiful young Vietnamese Dr. checking
    ( DRE ) on my Agent Orange prostate cancer.
    Wars aren't going away. We just need to find the right politicans that have common sense so we are freed from politics.

    66>67 A Co ( ABN ) 8th Engr, 1st Cav
    68>69 C Co 1/7 Cav,HHC 3rd Brigade, 1st Cav
    73-75 HHC 1/5 Cav, 1st Cav
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  • River RatRiver Rat Member Posts: 9,022 ✭
    edited November -1
    Interesting question. I like the Vietnamese people, here in the U.S. or anywhere, and these days am a content old-fart grampa that just loves everybody. But whenever the History or Military Channel ever shows footage of NV regulars during the war, my blood starts to boil. I want to fry the sonsagripees.

    Interesting question for us: if our daughter brought home a fiancee from Hanoi, proud son of an old ex-NV regular or guerrila, what would we do? I suppose -- after a moment's shock -- I would live in the present, and shake his hand. Maybe his dad and I would share stories, maybe not. But I know there are old, deep scars that did not heal so cleanly. Maybe he has them too.
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  • Gonvill BromheadGonvill Bromhead Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    English point of view;
    Everyone still hates the English, over the years we seem to have done war against everyone.
    The point is dont ask if you still hate your old enemy, but ask if he still hates you.
    With the English it is easy, we can't possibly hate all our old enemies, that would mean we hate everyone! So many countries have hated us for so long we would feel uncomfortable if all was forgotten and they where nice to us!

    Not makeing any sense? perhaps not, but we would have definitly got rid of Jane Fonda!
    The Vietman war as we saw it was the best army for the job and the worst possible way of making war we have ever seen. The way the American politicians ran this one makes all our balls-ups look like just bad luck!!
    If you want someone to hate look to your own big names!
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  • golf311golf311 Member Posts: 10 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    English? Yes, the English have beaten up on just about everybody...just ask the French. The English beat them up, then pull them out of the fire, over and over again. We do owe the English for many things though...imagine this world without an England...Anyway, I'm half English, with an old English name, and have visited there once and loved it. Would like to go over and visit the old WWI battlefields (Somme) with an English group sometime, and do plan to visit England sometime again. And they call the Germans warlike! English have it all over them.
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  • divecopdivecop Member Posts: 778 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes, I had a real bad problem with them when I came home. Learned
    to grin and bear it. All they cared about was where the next bowl
    of rice was coming from and didn't care who gave it to them. Then they come to the U.S. and have everything given to them while the
    vets are struggling to make ends meet and trying to live a normal
    life during the day and enduring the nightmares at night.
    Yeah, I got a problem with them, all of them, north and south.
    How many came over here that were shooting at me over there.
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  • sdkimmer619sdkimmer619 Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by divecop
    Then they come to the U.S. and have everything given to them while the vets are struggling to make ends meet and trying to live a normal life during the day and enduring the nightmares at night.
    Yeah, I got a problem with them, all of them, north and south.

    I'm sorry that the vets here were treated horribly when they returned. No solider deserves that...regardless of the war he or she fought in.

    However, for you to insinuate that these refugees who ended up in the US have had everything handed to them, you are seriously mistaken. My family came to this country with only the clothes on their backs and busted their * for over 25 years to make it as far as they have. Yes, my parents received a little assistance when they arrived, but my parents worked 2 jobs each while going to night school to help my siblings and me get as far as we have.

    The Vietnamese in Viet Nam have moved on and welcome Americans with open arms. Isn't it about time Americans move on, as well?
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  • Bluedot72Bluedot72 Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Monkey, Have you served in the Military?
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  • pic33pic33 Member Posts: 15 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    sdkimmer619...thank you for your insightful response. none of us are any different from your relatives; we are all "foreigners" whose parents, grandparents, and great grandparents came to this country with little or nothing and worked hard to build a nation and a life for themselves. they may have even fought against this country at one time or another. i feel no animosity toward germans, italians, japanese, (or english)...so why should i hold a grudge against the vietnamese...(just because it was my time, and i happened to be of the right age to serve in a war against them?). i don't think so. we were soldiers (and for the most part had no agenda, political or otherwise). we went because we volunteered or were drafted, and went to do a job as soldiers in a war our leaders determined was just. so you go there... and you do your job in the most honorable way you know how. the ugly part came when we returned...i remember walking thru the airport when i arrived home...people looked like they wanted to spit on me. my american counterparts (so bitter) and not thinking that maybe i had served with honor (as a soldier). this is what i remember most(not the enemy). but i tell you...there are two specific people that will always bother me (and i can get pretty steamed up about)...and that is jane fonda and john kerry. i didn't lose my money in enron, i sent it to the swift-boat people during the last pres. election.

    Inf. Company Commander, 82nd Airborne, 1969, nw of saigon up near tay ninh province.
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  • rayray2jsrayray2js Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was 11Bravo in the Central Highlands. CIB. We were in a freefire zone, so I never got to know the people.

    I respect the North Vietnamese for believing in their cause so much that they were willing to endure the hardships. They were truely united and had a strong cause. We were resupplied with C-rations every 3 days. Those guys carried a small sack of rice and maybe a potato in their packs.

    I dislike the Vietnamese pharmacist at my local VA who I always have to sit with for a few minutes so she can go through my prescriptions. She is arrogant, condescending, and a real pain. I want to say, "Do you know why I need this medication? Because I was in YOUR country risking my life so you could have freedom and democracy." Really wouldn't do any good, so I just tell her, "Bali, bali!!" lol I don't even remember what that means anymore, but she doesn't seem to be a bit appreciative.
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  • kooterbillkooterbill Member Posts: 96 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    So sorry sdkimmer619 if you think the Vietnamese people were not "taken" care of when then arrived over here. While it is true that many found their own way---HUNDREDS were sponsered by churches and civic orgs. who bought homes for them and had jobs for them when they got over here. Not all of them were from the "south". I do still hold a very big distrust for Viet Nam people over here who were old enough to fight in the war. The younger people, I can tolerate.

    We have gravity in this world because Viet Nam sucks
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  • sdkimmer619sdkimmer619 Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kooterbill
    So sorry sdkimmer619 if you think the Vietnamese people were not "taken" care of when then arrived over here. While it is true that many found their own way---HUNDREDS were sponsered by churches and civic orgs. who bought homes for them and had jobs for them when they got over here. Not all of them were from the "south". I do still hold a very big distrust for Viet Nam people over here who were old enough to fight in the war. The younger people, I can tolerate.

    We have gravity in this world because Viet Nam sucks



    I'm sorry you feel that way. You're closing the door on a lot of people who have worked very hard to earn a lot of the things they have. While I'm horribly offended by what you've said (my family is from the South and my father fought alongside countless Americans while my mother and grandmother worked on numerous American military bases), I can understand where you're coming from. Again, I'm sorry you feel that way, but like I've said before, the Vietnamese have moved on and I feel that it's time the Americans do, as well.
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  • CapnMidnightCapnMidnight Member Posts: 8,038 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have kinda sorta gotten more at ease with the Viet people over here. I did have problems with alot of them getting what seemed like a better break than our own people.
    I still don't have much time for Jane Fonda.
    CapnMidnight
    2/1 armoured Cav. 68-69
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  • hillc_98_2@hotmail.comhillc_98_2@hotmail.com Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yo Bros:

    I have hard feelings for the NVA, VC, and all the Viet Nam Wannabe Veterans! The NVA were a bunch of heartless, cruel, savage soldiers! Especially the 325th C, and 324th B Divisions. The 95th NVA, and the 101rst NVA Regiments. We fought these units at Khe Sanh, Hills 861, 881S, and 881N in April and May of 1967! The 3rd Marines, the 9th Marines, and 26th Marines almost decimated some of the units, but with very heavy casualties as a result. I can't start to forgive any of them, because of atrocities that I witnessed! Our men fragged, and then piled up like cord wood when they were helplessly wounded, and then the NVA took our useless M-16's, and emptied the magazines into the pile of Marine bodies! This was witnessed by a Marine named Flowers, that had rolled over in the high elephant grass, and they didn't find him! I have run into a lot of Viet Nam wannabees and they need to be put in jail. Claiming to be heroes, actually never serving in Viet Nam or any combat! I have known two of them and one lives just a few clicks from me right now.

    Semper Fi
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