In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
when i flew into washington state from sea,i changed into civilian cloths in the airport to blend in. i guess i did as no one said any thing to me, but i felt funny inside. with two brothers and two brother,s inlaw who served in the vietnam war,we do some times talk about the war. but over the years we seem to remember the light hearted and funny things that happened to us so many years ago. i don,t care who you are,if you were in that god damn war its with you every day. it,s like the birth of your first child, you will never forget. eastbank.
Men and women who served in Vietnam had the double burden of two enemies: the ones there and the ones here. We weren't permitted to deal with either one in the way it should have been done. Frustration, resentment, and contempt were - and still are - the natural results. If we're different than the veterans of other wars, that's why.
Everyone who survives a war comes home a little bit less sane than when he left; the differences in how they are after lie in how they were before.
quote:Originally posted by footlong
memo- Let me repeat myself- They had GREAT opium for smoking in Viet Nam . At least thet did 42 years, ten months, nine days ago [:p]
Yea but it wasn't for me. I kept my head as clear as possible. The only time I let it all hang out was on R&R far away from VN.
quote:Originally posted by givette
quote:Originally posted by skicat
I guess I have the privilege of deer hunting every year with the only Vietnam Vet who wasn't a sniper, an ace fighter pilot, or Rambo's bigger, badder older brother. Far as I know he moved a lot of supplies and built a lot of camps and did a lot of drudge work including mind numbing guard duty.
While I am not in favor of showing disrespect or cruelty to anyone including returning vets, I cannot but help feel that if more people had protested maybe, just maybe we could have gotten them home sooner and suffered many less casualties.
What does that mean? (Joe thinks to himself). What would have happened if nobody protested? Would the war have been so quick-and-vicious that there would have been an early, and absolute capitulation by the VN's?
What would have happened if everyone said 'bomb Haiphong'? What then?
Perhaps they all did, and the news media focused on the few that didn't?
Is it my perception, or are there no Vietnam style protests in this country as we speak?
Why is that? What has established complacency now, and not then?
Is It That The Media Is Downplaying Such Protests Through Lack Of Coverage?
Kev's post got me ol' noodle thinkin..
It is not the VN Vets that are responsible for the reception, but the reception itself is the crux.
We still had the WWII mindset during the time of the returning ROK Vets. Police action. We swallowed it..or we were too young (or unborn) to remember the Vietnam-style reception they received.
There was a mini-boom in the '50's! Could that have played in?
Vietnam was the first conflict whereby the public at large was aware of the Military Industrial Complex having a big part (the only part?) in the reason for the conflict's having started in the first place.
Now, let's consider the reason for the Mid-East. Troops are committed to the preservation of the oil cartels. We have been duped again. But for how long this time?
Again I ask, why no Vietnam style protests now? What has changed?
Joe
What has changed? How about 4 more decades of televised propaganda and a significantly dumbed down population who through the public system of indoctrination has ended up with greater exposure to classes on cultural diversity than classes in logic and critical reasoning. Add in a national change in diet which, through over processed food consisting of empty calories and in conjunction with over fluoridation of the water supply, is known to deleteriously affect brain development and you get the perfect recipe for a complacent population.
Isn't it interesting how you can take over half of a persons retirement account with little outcry? Then remove 50% of the equity in their homes and still that is OK. Ship their jobs overseas, raise their taxes, blame them for not investing in America and start cutting basic services and still no one gets excited. How can it be explained besides a successful program of brainwashing using TV,malnutrition, and a selective curriculum?
The end results are people who believe that all military action is "fighting for our freedom" and that the TSA feeling up your wife and child adds to national security.
Believe it or not that was my short answer to you question of "what has changed".[:D]
My father was in the 101st and was wounded and came out in 68 or 69.
He talks about things he saw and did over there. Nothing to mentally corrupted, hes not really stuck on the issue other than his wounds he has to live with. He even talks about what a sight it was to watch the AC130 (or whatever plane it was then) do circles around them. He does not claim to be a rambo or anything, he told me the only reason he went through airborne was that it payed $10 more a week or something like that.
The way he was wounded I would think he would have bad mental issues, but hes normal as you and me. I think he knows how lucky he was and enjoys life vs dwelling on it.
He told me his unit crossed from one tree line across a field and into another tree line. The point man screamed grenade but the unit couldnt get turned around and out of the way as planned by the enemy.
He was injured by the nade and pulled back by someone to the 1st tree line. He said the wounded were lined up and as soon as the medic was done with him a mortor landed a direct hit on the guy next to him. The cap to this guys canteen was found behind my fathers eye.
After something like that I would expect someone to have mental issues.
This man was a friend of mine. The obit is self-explanatory. He was a good and honorable man.
Obituary:
Robert Bryant
On January 1, 2011, God decided to call our beloved Bob home. Robert Nelson Bryant passed peacefully at his home, with his family by his side. He was 62 years young, and left a legacy that earned him the respect and admiration of his friends and family.
Bob was born in Olympia, WA, on January 28, 1948, to Riley and Helen (Nelson) Bryant. He spent his younger years in Tacoma, WA, until the family moved to Shelton, just before his ninth grade year, when his father Riley became commandant of the State Patrol Academy. Bob graduated in the top 10 of Shelton High School's Class of 1966.
Bob joined the Army and went to basic training at Ft. Ord, CA, in 1966. Then off to Army Security Agency training at Ft. Devens, MA. He was accepted to Flight School at Ft. Wolters, TX, in the fall of 1967, and from there went to advanced flight training at Ft. Rucker, Alabama. Bob was then deployed to Vietnam on November 11, 1968, (Veteran's Day), returning on November 11, 1969. He was a Slick Pilot with the 129th Assault Helicopter Battalion, providing direct support for Tiger Division in the Central Highlands area of Vietnam. Bob, a master aviator, received the Bronze Star and earned the Air Medal with 22 clusters. Bob joined the Washington State Army National Guard in 1971, and was a member of A company "45" Timberwolves. He was one of the first six pilots from Vietnam to fly the Army's new Huey helicopters.
Bob's guard unit was among those performing search and rescue operations after the eruption of Mt. St. Helens in May of 1980. He flew Senator Slade Gordon over to view the devastation. In 1990, Bob flew Hueys for the Goodwill Games with the Aero Scouts. Bob was among the first Warrant Officers to achieve the rank CW5 (Chief Warrant Officer, Five) and was among the first part time guardsmen to attend Warrant Officer Candidate School at Fort Rucker, Alabama. Bob retired from the Guard in November 1999, having just shy of 4000 flight hours and a military career spanning 33 years.
While in the Guard, Bob attended St. Martin's College where he graduated magna * laude in 1974, and then City College of New York for his Master of Public Administration in 1979. While at St. Martins, Bob worked for the State Patrol and later for the Division of Child Support as a support enforcement officer and then Program Manager, retiring in 1999 after 26 years of service.
Bob was first diagnosed with melanoma on his 53rd birthday, and entered into a treatment plan called interferon, which lasted 365 days. He was then cancer free for just over 5 years. After the melanoma returned in 2007, Bob was a participant in 4 different clinical trials. He had just begun a new treatment in early December 2010. It was his hope to be the "poster child" for the cure of melanoma, but as a fellow treatment friend mentioned "Bob's participation could very likely make a difference for future melanoma patients." He was an inspiration to, not only his friends and family, but also to his many doctors. One of his doctors recently said "Bob, you are an amazing man."
Bob had a lifelong passion for sports, not only as a participant but also as a spectator. He played baseball and football at Shelton High School and continued his love of baseball by playing city ball in his adult years. In addition to baseball, he played competitive tennis with Pacific West Tennis, and during his retirement years, he became a golfaholic. After family, Bob's next great love was cars and his Harley Sportster. He had more than 75 cars in his lifetime. Among his favorites were his Chevy Impalas.
Bob is survived by his "bride , Survivors, names redacted, includes children and grandchildren
In lieu of flowers, donations to your favorite charity, or to: www.providencefoundations.org
To leave memories of Bob or condolences for the family, please click on "View Guestbook" below.
I wrote a couple combat scenes for a book; they made my skin crawl and still do. I was a weatherman and never saw SEA so to get the details right I asked a vet who was there to give me a little insight. That man posts on here and I admire him; I don't admire many.
quote:I have only met a few of these men. One was mentally corrupted and the other one keeps patting himself on the back.
In truth, you have probably met more of them than you ever knew about. Most are just regular guys, living regular lives, and you would never know they were Vietnam vets unless you got to know them well.
quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
Men and women who served in Vietnam had the double burden of two enemies: the ones there and the ones here. We weren't permitted to deal with either one in the way it should have been done. Frustration, resentment, and contempt were - and still are - the natural results. If we're different than the veterans of other wars, that's why.
Everyone who survives a war comes home a little bit less sane than when he left; the differences in how they are after lie in how they were before.
BTW, I moved this thread to the proper forum for its content.
I also edited out A LOT of absolute CRAP. If similar CRAP shows up again, I will lock out the author(s) thereof and forget to unlock them for a long time.
I like some, and dislike others. Some seem to think the country owes them an income for the rest of their life, I don't. Some of us were drafted, some of us volunteered, either way we all served, a duty I feel we owe to our country.
I served proudly, and I'm still proud of it, but I'm not proud of everything my fellow soldiers did. I can look myself in the mirror every morning, and there are some things I will never speak of and wish never to remember again. Some of the things I saw, I will carry to the grave with me.
These same statements are true for most of the men I fought with. We are nothing special, nor or we the scurge of the earth that some think we are/were.
Coming home in 67 seeing the protesters and wondering why they were protesting and not understanding, but then there was a lot of things I didn't understand and still don't today! I still remember the best of times and live with the worst of times. We all remember working with people and living by them and then finding out by accident that they were also Vietnam Vets, most of us just kept it to ourselves. Then suddenly it became the in thing to be a VV, so suddenly from a total of approx 3 million who were really there it became almost 14 million people claiming to have served in-country. I guess out of that number you will find some who are mentally corrupted and others patting themselves on the back. If you are going to post such a stupid statement please check your facts and make sure they are real Vietnam Veterans!!!! You may also want to get a larger sample than 2 people!!! I still hug and welcome my brothers home when I meet them.
quote:Originally posted by Sage1
I have only met a few of these men. One was mentally corrupted and the other one keeps patting himself on the back.
What has your experiences been.
They are all not God's gift to America in my opinion.
Some great, some good and some others.
Sage1
We are ALL different! Just because we served in RVN does not make us good or bad. I served with some VERY good guys and some VERY bad guys. We are citizens just like everyone else, no better no worse.
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:I have only met a few of these men. One was mentally corrupted and the other one keeps patting himself on the back.
In truth, you have probably met more of them than you ever knew about. Most are just regular guys, living regular lives, and you would never know they were Vietnam vets unless you got to know them well.
Nunn your comments are: simple, straight and true.
Most Vietnam Vets are just people that have been around for awhile now. Most are Americans, at least around here, though not all were born and raised as Americans.
Some are troublesome, most aren't so much so ... much like most people. Some have done a lot with their lives since back then, some not sos you'd much know. Some not known by many, if any. Most mind their own and family and friends business and don't comment against what and who they don't know ... much like most of the people that I choose to know.
Not all Vietnam vets are sick or mean. The majority of us are just nornal people. I will, however, let you know that 3,000,000 men served in Viet Nam but there now are about 6,000,000 Viet Nam vets. Be careful who you speak to. Some things are not what they seem.
quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
Men and women who served in Vietnam had the double burden of two enemies: the ones there and the ones here. We weren't permitted to deal with either one in the way it should have been done. Frustration, resentment, and contempt were - and still are - the natural results. If we're different than the veterans of other wars, that's why.
Everyone who survives a war comes home a little bit less sane than when he left; the differences in how they are after lie in how they were before.
Amen. As for me, I'm NORMAL. Can't speak for the others. [:)]
Comments
Everyone who survives a war comes home a little bit less sane than when he left; the differences in how they are after lie in how they were before.
memo- Let me repeat myself- They had GREAT opium for smoking in Viet Nam . At least thet did 42 years, ten months, nine days ago [:p]
Yea but it wasn't for me. I kept my head as clear as possible. The only time I let it all hang out was on R&R far away from VN.
quote:Originally posted by skicat
I guess I have the privilege of deer hunting every year with the only Vietnam Vet who wasn't a sniper, an ace fighter pilot, or Rambo's bigger, badder older brother. Far as I know he moved a lot of supplies and built a lot of camps and did a lot of drudge work including mind numbing guard duty.
While I am not in favor of showing disrespect or cruelty to anyone including returning vets, I cannot but help feel that if more people had protested maybe, just maybe we could have gotten them home sooner and suffered many less casualties.
What does that mean? (Joe thinks to himself). What would have happened if nobody protested? Would the war have been so quick-and-vicious that there would have been an early, and absolute capitulation by the VN's?
What would have happened if everyone said 'bomb Haiphong'? What then?
Perhaps they all did, and the news media focused on the few that didn't?
Is it my perception, or are there no Vietnam style protests in this country as we speak?
Why is that? What has established complacency now, and not then?
Is It That The Media Is Downplaying Such Protests Through Lack Of Coverage?
Kev's post got me ol' noodle thinkin..
It is not the VN Vets that are responsible for the reception, but the reception itself is the crux.
We still had the WWII mindset during the time of the returning ROK Vets. Police action. We swallowed it..or we were too young (or unborn) to remember the Vietnam-style reception they received.
There was a mini-boom in the '50's! Could that have played in?
Vietnam was the first conflict whereby the public at large was aware of the Military Industrial Complex having a big part (the only part?) in the reason for the conflict's having started in the first place.
Now, let's consider the reason for the Mid-East. Troops are committed to the preservation of the oil cartels. We have been duped again. But for how long this time?
Again I ask, why no Vietnam style protests now? What has changed?
Joe
What has changed? How about 4 more decades of televised propaganda and a significantly dumbed down population who through the public system of indoctrination has ended up with greater exposure to classes on cultural diversity than classes in logic and critical reasoning. Add in a national change in diet which, through over processed food consisting of empty calories and in conjunction with over fluoridation of the water supply, is known to deleteriously affect brain development and you get the perfect recipe for a complacent population.
Isn't it interesting how you can take over half of a persons retirement account with little outcry? Then remove 50% of the equity in their homes and still that is OK. Ship their jobs overseas, raise their taxes, blame them for not investing in America and start cutting basic services and still no one gets excited. How can it be explained besides a successful program of brainwashing using TV,malnutrition, and a selective curriculum?
The end results are people who believe that all military action is "fighting for our freedom" and that the TSA feeling up your wife and child adds to national security.
Believe it or not that was my short answer to you question of "what has changed".[:D]
He talks about things he saw and did over there. Nothing to mentally corrupted, hes not really stuck on the issue other than his wounds he has to live with. He even talks about what a sight it was to watch the AC130 (or whatever plane it was then) do circles around them. He does not claim to be a rambo or anything, he told me the only reason he went through airborne was that it payed $10 more a week or something like that.
The way he was wounded I would think he would have bad mental issues, but hes normal as you and me. I think he knows how lucky he was and enjoys life vs dwelling on it.
He told me his unit crossed from one tree line across a field and into another tree line. The point man screamed grenade but the unit couldnt get turned around and out of the way as planned by the enemy.
He was injured by the nade and pulled back by someone to the 1st tree line. He said the wounded were lined up and as soon as the medic was done with him a mortor landed a direct hit on the guy next to him. The cap to this guys canteen was found behind my fathers eye.
After something like that I would expect someone to have mental issues.
Obituary:
Robert Bryant
On January 1, 2011, God decided to call our beloved Bob home. Robert Nelson Bryant passed peacefully at his home, with his family by his side. He was 62 years young, and left a legacy that earned him the respect and admiration of his friends and family.
Bob was born in Olympia, WA, on January 28, 1948, to Riley and Helen (Nelson) Bryant. He spent his younger years in Tacoma, WA, until the family moved to Shelton, just before his ninth grade year, when his father Riley became commandant of the State Patrol Academy. Bob graduated in the top 10 of Shelton High School's Class of 1966.
Bob joined the Army and went to basic training at Ft. Ord, CA, in 1966. Then off to Army Security Agency training at Ft. Devens, MA. He was accepted to Flight School at Ft. Wolters, TX, in the fall of 1967, and from there went to advanced flight training at Ft. Rucker, Alabama. Bob was then deployed to Vietnam on November 11, 1968, (Veteran's Day), returning on November 11, 1969. He was a Slick Pilot with the 129th Assault Helicopter Battalion, providing direct support for Tiger Division in the Central Highlands area of Vietnam. Bob, a master aviator, received the Bronze Star and earned the Air Medal with 22 clusters. Bob joined the Washington State Army National Guard in 1971, and was a member of A company "45" Timberwolves. He was one of the first six pilots from Vietnam to fly the Army's new Huey helicopters.
Bob's guard unit was among those performing search and rescue operations after the eruption of Mt. St. Helens in May of 1980. He flew Senator Slade Gordon over to view the devastation. In 1990, Bob flew Hueys for the Goodwill Games with the Aero Scouts. Bob was among the first Warrant Officers to achieve the rank CW5 (Chief Warrant Officer, Five) and was among the first part time guardsmen to attend Warrant Officer Candidate School at Fort Rucker, Alabama. Bob retired from the Guard in November 1999, having just shy of 4000 flight hours and a military career spanning 33 years.
While in the Guard, Bob attended St. Martin's College where he graduated magna * laude in 1974, and then City College of New York for his Master of Public Administration in 1979. While at St. Martins, Bob worked for the State Patrol and later for the Division of Child Support as a support enforcement officer and then Program Manager, retiring in 1999 after 26 years of service.
Bob was first diagnosed with melanoma on his 53rd birthday, and entered into a treatment plan called interferon, which lasted 365 days. He was then cancer free for just over 5 years. After the melanoma returned in 2007, Bob was a participant in 4 different clinical trials. He had just begun a new treatment in early December 2010. It was his hope to be the "poster child" for the cure of melanoma, but as a fellow treatment friend mentioned "Bob's participation could very likely make a difference for future melanoma patients." He was an inspiration to, not only his friends and family, but also to his many doctors. One of his doctors recently said "Bob, you are an amazing man."
Bob had a lifelong passion for sports, not only as a participant but also as a spectator. He played baseball and football at Shelton High School and continued his love of baseball by playing city ball in his adult years. In addition to baseball, he played competitive tennis with Pacific West Tennis, and during his retirement years, he became a golfaholic. After family, Bob's next great love was cars and his Harley Sportster. He had more than 75 cars in his lifetime. Among his favorites were his Chevy Impalas.
Bob is survived by his "bride , Survivors, names redacted, includes children and grandchildren
In lieu of flowers, donations to your favorite charity, or to: www.providencefoundations.org
To leave memories of Bob or condolences for the family, please click on "View Guestbook" below.
Clouder..
Were you there? if not who are you to judge?
Amen.
In truth, you have probably met more of them than you ever knew about. Most are just regular guys, living regular lives, and you would never know they were Vietnam vets unless you got to know them well.
Men and women who served in Vietnam had the double burden of two enemies: the ones there and the ones here. We weren't permitted to deal with either one in the way it should have been done. Frustration, resentment, and contempt were - and still are - the natural results. If we're different than the veterans of other wars, that's why.
Everyone who survives a war comes home a little bit less sane than when he left; the differences in how they are after lie in how they were before.
Well said. 454th Bomb Wing (H) SAC.
I also edited out A LOT of absolute CRAP. If similar CRAP shows up again, I will lock out the author(s) thereof and forget to unlock them for a long time.
I served proudly, and I'm still proud of it, but I'm not proud of everything my fellow soldiers did. I can look myself in the mirror every morning, and there are some things I will never speak of and wish never to remember again. Some of the things I saw, I will carry to the grave with me.
These same statements are true for most of the men I fought with. We are nothing special, nor or we the scurge of the earth that some think we are/were.
PS, thanks David.
I have only met a few of these men. One was mentally corrupted and the other one keeps patting himself on the back.
What has your experiences been.
They are all not God's gift to America in my opinion.
Some great, some good and some others.
Sage1
We are ALL different! Just because we served in RVN does not make us good or bad. I served with some VERY good guys and some VERY bad guys. We are citizens just like everyone else, no better no worse.
quote:I have only met a few of these men. One was mentally corrupted and the other one keeps patting himself on the back.
In truth, you have probably met more of them than you ever knew about. Most are just regular guys, living regular lives, and you would never know they were Vietnam vets unless you got to know them well.
Nunn your comments are: simple, straight and true.
Most Vietnam Vets are just people that have been around for awhile now. Most are Americans, at least around here, though not all were born and raised as Americans.
Some are troublesome, most aren't so much so ... much like most people. Some have done a lot with their lives since back then, some not sos you'd much know. Some not known by many, if any. Most mind their own and family and friends business and don't comment against what and who they don't know ... much like most of the people that I choose to know.
He didn't give a yes or no, but he sure as hell answered it.
That's for certain.
Men and women who served in Vietnam had the double burden of two enemies: the ones there and the ones here. We weren't permitted to deal with either one in the way it should have been done. Frustration, resentment, and contempt were - and still are - the natural results. If we're different than the veterans of other wars, that's why.
Everyone who survives a war comes home a little bit less sane than when he left; the differences in how they are after lie in how they were before.
Amen. As for me, I'm NORMAL. Can't speak for the others. [:)]