MAC V SOG

OlympicArmsFan

It's "Military Assistance Command VietNam Studies and Observation Group" Check out this website: www.macvsog.org

G. Taylor
82nd Airborne
1/505 & 1/505
72-76

OlympicArmsFan

Hi all I wanted to know more about MAC V SOG. I have read a few personal accoutns of those who have served in Vietnam and some about MAC V SOG. I wanted to know if anyone served or knows of anyone. I dated a girl who's father served two and half tours in Vietnam and never really talked to his daughter or son but knew that I was a military history guy and told her to tell me he would talk to me about Vietnam anytime I wanted to. She told me that she was shocked about that because he would never talk about it even when they had questions. I did get to see some pictures of him and his wife in Vietnam. She was some kind of soldier from what I understand with the CIA or something. The patch I saw on his BDU was a sword with what looks like two walls. I do have this patch on my M65 field jacket and I get stopped all the time buy guys asking about it. I tell them this is me showing my support for those that served in Vietnam because they would be the only ones to know what the patch ment. I think her dad saw the patch on my jacket and that might be why he said I could ask him anytime. We dated for six years and I never did ask. He did tell me something but I never pushed for answers or any questions. I would like to know more about SOG and the patches. Thanks to all those serving and who has served.

41 nut

MACV stands for Military Advisory Command Vietnam. Spent a year as a member of MACV Advisory Team 45 advising the Australians, South Koreans, and South Vietnamese in light weapons repair (50cal on down). These were primairly M1 carbines and M60's the US had given them.

OlympicArmsFan

Hey 41 Nutt sounds like a busy job. What can you tell me about MACV. My Ex-Girlfriends dad I think was part of that group. Im not sure as I only had seen the patch on his BDU. His ex-wife, he told me was a soldier and used to lead them out into the bush and could break down an M16 blind folded better then anyone he had seen. I think she worked for the CIA from what I have gathered. Do you know if the CIA worked with MACV.

I found a site with books written by guys who served in MACV and want to get them to read.

Im starting to relearn everything I knew in the past. I lost almost all my memory to a stroke four years ago at the age of 29. I used to be really good at Military history and decoding old cars. Im gladd I found these fourms everyone seems to good to talk with.

41 nut

Briefly MACV was an advisory unit that trained and assisted the South Vietnamese. They also worked with the South Koreans and Australians who were in country as advisors. Team members would live with and go on patrols, set up ambushes, etc with these military units, especially the S. Vietnamese. We had a team of Air Force doctors as part of our team that were authorized to only pratice medicine on Vietnamese civilians. There were two Marine navel gunfire guys with us who would call in the concordances when one of the gunships were sitting close by (we were close to the ocean - about a mile drive). And we had some Nave Seabees attached to us - don't know just exactly what they done as I didn't see them very often. I do not know of any CIA agents assigned with MACV, but there may have been. Send me an email if you want more info and some of the things we done.

OlympicArmsFan

Email sent 41nut and cant wait to hear more. Thanks.

41 nut

I've been having email problems. Received your email ok, but was having problems sending emails out. Think its fixed now. May get a chance to try again later tonight but will probably be tomorrow before I email you.

rogerdee123

MACV = Military Assistance Command Vietnam


It's "Assistance" and not "Advisory"

Sky Soldier

quote:Originally posted by rogerdee123
MACV = Military Assistance Command Vietnam


It's "Assistance" and not "Advisory"




It's been 40 years so I wouldn't bet the farm on it but my memory says "Advisory" not "Assistance"

32 Magnum

Military Assitance Command Vietnam was the overall supervisory unit that co-ordinated the activities of the other integral units - Kind of like the Theater of Operations Command or Army Group Command in WW2.
SOG - Studies and Operations Group - a small, special unit that conducted "clandestine" and black op missions. There were Army Special Forces, Rangers, Force Recon, SEALS and AF air commando personnel as well as assets assigned to this group on an as needed basis. There was also participation in certain "studies" by "slick sleeves", people with no rank, no unit insignia, no name tags. There were also certain "studies" that required the employment of SVN and NVN "nationals" as well as "mercs" from several other SE Asian countries. Overall command and assignment for the SOG was CIC MACV with input from MI, NSA and others. Not much was nor is written about SOG, and about 90% of what is in print is pure BS.

41 nut

MACV was most definatly Military Advisory Command Vietnam! The only thing members of MACV done was advise the South Vietnamese military and other allied military units in Nam. Additionally some MACV members worked with Vietnamese civilians. I was a member of MACV advisory team 45 stationed in Phan Rang 1969-70. In addition to being our supply clerk and weapons man I advised the South Vietnamese, South Koreans, and Australians on light weapons repair.

rogerdee123

Hi 41 nut!

I have no doubt that you were on a MACV advisory team. I wasn't in the boondocks like you. But I was driving to MACV at Tan Son Nhat every day. The "A" stands for "Assistance". No lie.

In your case you were advisor with capital "A" . More power to you. The MACV however was a lot broader and also all those tanks, planes and other equipment than went to the S. VNese came thru MACV ... "Assistance".

I never used the M60 in anger but have a lot of time on the M1 Carbine. I know a lot of people don't like the carbine but I did/do. I also liked the Thompson but it was hell to change a magazine in the dark. It was heavy but I liked it. I felt confident as poop when I had that thing under my arm. But I had a Swedish K that I carried around in the floorboard of my car.

Anyway .. it don't matter ... Advisory or Assistance.

rog

Sky Soldier

Well, this is the unit (I recognize the patch):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Assistance_Command,_Vietnam

32 Magnum

THE UNITED STATES MILITARY ASSISTANCE
COMMAND, VIETNAM (MACV)
U.S. ARMY UNITS NEWS ARTICLES SKYTROOPERS HOMEPAGE
The United States Military Assistance Command, Vietnam (MACV) was established on Feb. 8, 1962, as a unified command subordinate to the commander-in-chief, Pacific. MACV has the mission of assisting the Republic of Vietnam Armed Forces to maintain internal security against subversion and insurgency and to resist external aggression.
With headquarters in Saigon, MACV controls all of the United States Armed Forces in Vietnam. MACV is involved in two basic activities. Its forces constantly seek to engage the enemy in combat on the ground and territorial waters of the Republic of Vietnam, to provide assistance to the constitutional government of Vietnam in building a free society capable of defending itself.

335th Radio Research (Army Security Agency) 3rd Brgd. 9th Inf Div May-Aug 69
1st RR Co (Aviation) 509th RR Group (ASA) MACV Aug69- June70

OlympicArmsFan

glad to see some replies. I would like to know more about MACV seems to be a little less reported about then other groups. I do have that patch on my military jacket and my ex-girlfriends dad had that on his BDU shirt. Im just putting two and two together. DO you think he could have been.

Da-Tank

MACV 1968 team 5, HUE. Not much to tell after saying I'm still alive.

OlympicArmsFan

Thank you sir and all of you for your service and welcome home.

Im still just wanting info on MACV just anything from any part that you did while serving or of knowing someone that served. Thanks.

rovernut

carried Sweedish"Ks" and hush puppies. Had a neat mortor position at the Da-Nang HQ!!

ElMuertoMonkey

Check out SOG by John L. Plaster. Great book.

OlympicArmsFan

I have that book on my list. I think I saw the link to the site for a lot of books on MACV SOG in SOF. I wish more info was out there because I always thought it was more of a fighting unit and never really knew of any behind the scens things. IS there anything like MAC V SOG today in the military.

Gdt928

OlympicArmsFan, sounds like the patch on your jacket is for Military Assistance Command Vietnam (MACV). MAC V SOG (Studies and Operations Group) were special forces troopers who typically wore a different insignia. For more on MAC V SOG check out this website: www.macvsog.org

G. Taylor
82nd Abn
1/505 & 1/508
'72-'76

OlympicArmsFan

I have to tell you all something. I was in a store with my jacket on a month or so ago and a guy stoped me. He looked at me hard and said you look to young to have been in the service when we wore the grean fatagies. He then looked at my patch and said you are way to young to have ever been in that groupe. I told him I was to young and that he was right. He asked me why I was wearing the patch. I told him to honor those who have served in Vietnam and that for those who were there would be the only ones to know the patch. He looked at me and said thank you and I asked if he served and he said yes. I looked at him and said no thank you.

I later saw the guy with his wife and he was pointing at me and my jacket. They were talking and he just looked happy. Im not sure what branch he was in or what he did. The guy just had a smile on his face when he walked away from me and later with his wife. This was the first time I have had anyone say anything to me about the jacket and the patch.

I was never sure if I should have it on my jacket and had thoughts I should take it off but after seeing that guy stop me and leave with a smile on his face I think its worth it.

Old Gunny

About 3-4 years ago, Field & Stream writer Bill Heavey wrote about a deer hunt in Nov. with 5th SF ret'd Major John Plaster- up in Northern WI- where Maj. Plaster lives. John wrote a definitive book on the art of sniping, and survived over 20 SOG missions in "The 'Nam"- so if you want to contact someone who "walked the walk and talked the talk" you would want to hook up with him. As I built up Rem 700 .308 in M40 sniper rifles in the USMC, I ordered a copy of his book and he personally signed it to me- I had included the "Armorer's Code" we saw at Quantico- believe it came from the opera about Robin Hood-- "The sword is a weapon to conquor the world, I honor the man who shakes it-but what is he, nor what could he be, without the man who makes it".

sfguy

I know John Plaster as I see him at a lot of the SF reunions that I attend. If you really want to see a lot of the heroes of MACV/SOG try to attend the Special Operations Assoc reunion that is held in Las Vegas every Sept. John has also written a couple of more books on SOG, one of them is IIRC, SOG and the other is a picture book on the same subject. I served in SF in Nam but not in SOG although I know a lot of guys that were in it.

sfvet

old_ironsights

First there was MAAG (Military Assistance Advisory Group)
and then MACV.

MACV SOG (Military Assistance Command, Vietnam Studies and Observations Group)is perhaps the most well known unconventional unit, but the 82nd USASA Special Operations Unit was separate from, but provided support to MACV, as did the 53rd USASA Special Operations Command.

roboat

quote:Originally posted by sfguy
I know John Plaster as I see him at a lot of the SF reunions that I attend. If you really want to see a lot of the heroes of MACV/SOG try to attend the Special Operations Assoc reunion that is held in Las Vegas every Sept. John has also written a couple of more books on SOG, one of them is IIRC, SOG and the other is a picture book on the same subject. I served in SF in Nam but not in SOG although I know a lot of guys that were in it.

sfvet

I had the honor of supporting B-56 MACV SOG with inserts and extracts, etc. in '68, out of Loc Ninh and points west, Quan Loi, and Ho Ngoc Tao. Finest group of men I have ever met.
Hats off to you guys.

machine gun moran

This may be a litle early for the time in question, but I got to Okinawa on 2 Feb 1963 when MACV was still constructing itself around its missions. I was in an Ordnance outfit (137th Ord, not to be confused as a component of the 173rd AB, which was at Sukiran at the time) and we hosted a lot of the 1st SFG (because we had the bunk space, and the unit was also on classified ops status) which was operating under MACV. 1st SFG members would rotate out for 3 to 6 months at a time, usually to Central SVN to organize and train the 'Yards' in anti-VC operations. A problem with trying to reconstruct much of the early MACV's operations now, is that half of it wasn't even supposed to be happening at the time. Sometimes, we couldn't tell the players without a card because the SF that rotated back would be a different bunch than the ones that left. There were also a lot of ARVN Officers always around the 173rd AB facilities whenever we went down there, presumably (?) being trained in operations coordination. This was very well before the Gulf of Tonkin. In short, a lot of the 'assisting' was probably the laying of groundwork for something big, and the real extent of MACV's activities will be in a fog forever.

To bend the thread, one benefit of having the SFG rack with us, was when they rotated back, they were apparently allowed to bring with them everything the C-130 could hold. As presents, I got a North Vietnamese-made SMG and a captured '03A3 (a really nice one, somehow) which had apparently been left in SE Asia at the end of WW2 (the First Shirt said it was off the books, and to keep it), and another guy was given a new-condition MP40 complete with spare mags and accessories. One of the SF guys brought piles of Mausers which he broke down for their actions, which he then sent home by the boxful. There was also a Browning Superposed 20 that some VC ***hole had hacked off the barrels on, right in front of the fore end. But now, I'm digressing too much.

dg13

hi

rjm610

Hi, I was " macv-sog " 70-71. our patch was the upright sword, with a lightning bolt through it. We worked for the "spooks (cia)" I was 10th special forces. we worked with the mountain tribes, or yards as we called them. sometimes we had navy frogman(later called seals )assigned to us. when we went on missions(way north, or west) we were not alowed to wear any patches or insignias that could be identified as american, nor any id"s. we also were not supposed to carry american weapons either, except for one time when we were testing a new weapon, an xm-172, which was an m-16 with a 10 inch barrel, a collapsable stock, forward assist, and a 4 position selecter switch
1)safe
2)semi
3)burst
4)full
We also used a 12 inch barrel model with a 40 mm grenade launcher slung under the barrel.
we were actually a hunter killer team.
The spooks used to give us advanced flak vests with different european gold coins sown inside, in case we got in trouble, so we could try to buy our way out. we were told that if we were caught or killed, they would disavow any knowledge of us. luckily we never found out if that was true.They used to get mad at us because we always lost some of the coins when the vests got ripped(LOL). I hope this was some help for you.

Richard M. E-6

rjm610

Hi, I was " macv-sog " 70-71. our patch was the upright sword, with a lightning bolt through it. We worked for the "spooks (cia)" I was 10th special forces. we worked with the mountain tribes, or yards as we called them. sometimes we had navy frogman(later called seals )assigned to us. when we went on missions(way north, or west) we were not alowed to wear any patches or insignias that could be identified as american, nor any id"s. we also were not supposed to carry american weapons either, except for one time when we were testing a new weapon, an xm-172, which was an m-16 with a 10 inch barrel, a collapsable stock, forward assist, and a 4 position selecter switch
1)safe
2)semi
3)burst
4)full
We also used a 12 inch barrel model with a 40 mm grenade launcher slung under the barrel.
we were actually a hunter killer team.
The spooks used to give us advanced flak vests with different european gold coins sown inside, in case we got in trouble, so we could try to buy our way out. we were told that if we were caught or killed, they would disavow any knowledge of us. luckily we never found out if that was true.They used to get mad at us because we always lost some of the coins when the vests got ripped(LOL). I hope this was some help for you.

Richard M. E-6

rjm610

Originally posted by rjm610
Hi, I was " macv-sog " 70-71. our patch was the upright sword, with a lightning bolt through it. We worked for the "spooks (cia)" I was 10th special forces. we worked with the mountain tribes, or yards as we called them. sometimes we had navy frogman(later called seals )assigned to us. when we went on missions(way north, or west) we were not alowed to wear any patches or insignias that could be identified as american, nor any id"s. we also were not supposed to carry american weapons either, except for one time when we were testing a new weapon, an xm-172, which was an m-16 with a 10 inch barrel, a collapsable stock, forward assist, and a 4 position selecter switch
1)safe
2)semi
3)burst
4)full
We also used a 12 inch barrel model with a 40 mm grenade launcher slung under the barrel.
we were actually a hunter killer team.
The spooks used to give us advanced flak vests with different european gold coins sown inside, in case we got in trouble, so we could try to buy our way out. we were told that if we were caught or killed, they would disavow any knowledge of us. luckily we never found out if that was true.They used to get mad at us because we always lost some of the coins when the vests got ripped(LOL). I hope this was some help for you.

Richard M. E-6
10th Special forces Group, 1st Battalian (Stuttgart, Germany)

Sorry for the duplication, just getting the hang of this.