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Depleted Uranium

RevolutionJimRevolutionJim Member Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭
edited January 2014 in US Military Veteran Forum
Some nongovernmental websites that have info on depleted uranium.

quote:Depleted Uranium - Far Worse Than 9/11
Depleted Uranium Dust - Public Health Disaster For The People Of Iraq and Afghanistan
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060503&articleId=2374


EDITED OUT by ECC Those pics are too graphic for this site and I'm not going to allow slanderous information about our soldiers on this site unless it is completely substantiated by verifiable and credible sources. Our soldiers are under constant attack by the regular media and we do not need stuff like this being thrown around...especially if it's not true.


Free DVD available to veterans
http://www.beyondtreason.com/

Comments

  • jimkanejimkane Member Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:warning graphic photos

    Link edited out...sorry to mess with your post jimkane, but this link does not belong here.
    its on the internet so it must be true right? Accusing soldiers of gang rape. sure, whatever
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    I do not have time to go through the other two links at this moment, but I will come back and do so later. RJ...please read the ground rules post. I will not allow information that discredits our troops unless is is completely verifiable and from a credible source. Thanks.
  • jimkanejimkane Member Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    thats OK ECC, I mean if the site had just been about the birth defects of DU that would be one thing, but this site asked for funding for this guys research institute, then went on to say that American servicemen were raping Afghan women and children. I have a feeling that this "research" facility is nothing more than a cover for terrorist organizations.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jimkane
    thats OK ECC, I mean if the site had just been about the birth defects of DU that would be one thing, but this site asked for funding for this guys research institute, then went on to say that American servicemen were raping Afghan women and children. I have a feeling that this "research" facility is nothing more than a cover for terrorist organizations.


    I would not doubt it...
  • RevolutionJimRevolutionJim Member Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    25% of our troops are said to be illegal aliens so we Americans will be blamed for things these folks do I'm not saying they did it or not I lean towards not, the woman writter was probably just emotional and begging for help after dealing with the nuclear nightmare they are dealing with.

    Not only Iraqies and Afghans but US troops are comming home and infecting their wifes, according to reports, and haveing mamed children. I have seen the photos and heard them call in to radio with testimony. There has been enough uranium dumped on the area for 40,000 Nagasaki bombs.
  • jimkanejimkane Member Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    25% of our troops are said to be illegals??? riiiiight. Said by who? your tin foil hat gang?
  • RevolutionJimRevolutionJim Member Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jimkane
    25% of our troops are said to be illegals??? riiiiight. Said by who? your tin foil hat gang?


    it's easy to say right without doing any research yourself, there are no consequences when your wrong. drop and give me 25 push ups boy!

    quote:Latinos comprise more than a third of the 41,000 foreign citizens in the U.S. fighting force, according to the Defense Department, with the largest number -- 8,539 -- from California.
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/05/22/MNGQ2CSURU1.DTL

    quote:There are still about 30,000 active duty and 11,000 Guard and Reserve personnel in the military who are not U.S. citizens, according to Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel David Chu. He testified Tuesday before the Senate Armed Services Committee on personnel issues facing the military.
    http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/05-26-05/discussion.cgi.9.html

    I hear this stuff daily in the alternative press/not controled by the government meanwhile you sit around drinking beer watching football and CBS and think you know what the hell is going on. the Communist Broadcasting System

    I do not endorse the news on Fox news nor watch it any more, but I was watching it about a year ago and a Honduran immigrant was on screen, he had been shot through the head, they said it came out his neck, it was bandaged up and he was up walking around, he said "can I get my green card yet". One of those news stories I've seen once and never again.
  • One shotOne shot Member Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    RevolutionJim:
    What was your era of service?
  • jimkanejimkane Member Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rev, your numbers don't add up. 41,000 does NOT nearly comprise 25% of our armed forces. And I know more than one foreign citizen who came here LEGALLY, obtained a greencard LEGALLY and joined the Army to gain citizenship. A good friend of mine, SGT Tran did so. He served with distinction in Iraq. You are assuming that just because the soldier is a Latino they are an illegal. And maybe there is some truth about illegals doing jobs americans don't want to do, like One Shot said, whats your service record?
  • RevolutionJimRevolutionJim Member Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most that served or are serving during the Gulf theater know about DU but for those that don't should go and be independently checked out.
    more DU

    quote:New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com
    Army to test N.Y. Guard unit

    Monday, April 5th, 2004

    Army officials at Fort Dix and Walter Reed Army Medical Center are rushing to test all returning members of the 442nd Military Police Company of the New York Army National Guard for depleted uranium contamination.
    Army brass acted after learning that four of nine soldiers from the company tested by the Daily News showed signs of radiation exposure.

    The soldiers, who returned from Iraq late last year, say they and other members of their company have been suffering from unexplained illnesses since last summer, when they were stationed in the Iraqi town of Samawah.

    Dr. Asaf Durakovic, a former Army doctor and nuclear medicine expert who examined and tested the nine men at The News' request, concluded four of them "almost certainly" inhaled radioactive dust from exploded depleted uranium shells fired by U.S. troops.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/v-pfriendly/story/180644p-156921c.html
    and
    quote:The Shameful Legacy of Radioactive Weaponry
    BY HEATHER WOKUSCH
    06.14.2003 | POLITICS

    Disturbing new evidence puts the US military's use of radioactive weaponry in the spotlight, casting doubt on the Bush administration's upbeat estimates on civilian war casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    A study by the Washington, D.C. based Uranium Medical Research Center (UMRC) suggests coalition forces used Afghanistan as a testing ground for radioactive weaponry, thereby placing generations of civilians--not to mention US service members--at unspeakable future risk.

    The UMRC study found "astonishing" levels of uranium in the urine of Afghan civilians living in Nangarhar province, one of many places coalition forces bombarded with a new generation of "cave-busting" and seismic shock warheads. Interestingly, none of the civilians tested at Nangarhar showed traces of depleted uranium (DU), yet hundreds exhibited symptoms resembling those of DU-exposed Gulf War veterans.

    http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/article.php?id=271


    No offense RJ, but I'm not going to allow links to propaganda slandering American soldier's service...especially from sites that seem completely devoted to that end. If you have some factual news from credible news sources, it can stay...
  • andrewkentjacksonandrewkentjackson Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    For those who are interested, the U.S. "dumped" over 5,000 tons of depleted uranium during the gulf war. Depleted uranium is radioactive and has caused all kind of hell with the Iraqi's and especially with the increase in birth defects over there. I know DU sure helps kill tanks, but 5,000 tons of radioactive material? And most of it floating around in the air while us veterans were there. Add another ingredient to the cocktail folks.
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 14,524
    edited November -1
    RevolutionJim--You're full of bunk. You see, I have done my research and I know what it takes to put someone in the military. You don't get in without an I-551 card or properly overstamped passport. There's no illegal aliens unless onesies or twosies got in miraculously with fake credentials. It's highly unlikely.

    Someone carrying an I-551 card is not an "illegal alien". Check your ignorance at the door when you step into this forum. Not all of us enlisted 50 years ago. Some of us serve currently and are aware of the state of affairs in the military.
  • jsuggsjsuggs Member Posts: 110 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DU is the new agent orange. Sure increses efectiveness, but long term? Who knows. Fighting a war you must use the equipment that you need to ensure sucess of your soldiers while at the same time winning the war of atrittion. There will always be some type of long term affect from war. Look at all the people sick in New York. From WWI and WWII the black forest is dieing. If you want to know the effects of DU you should read about the Balkens where it has been studied very extensively by many countries for the past decade. In war torn countries like Afganastan and Iraq The results of any study on DU will be compromised by yhe years of recent war in the countries. With no baseline statistics. From everything I have heard of these two countries many of the babies with birth defects were killed at birth. Remember in war torn nations the purpose of boys is to continue the fight and the purpose of girls is to make more boys.
  • wittynbearwittynbear Member Posts: 4,518
    edited November -1
    DU was used in Afghanistan especially in 30mm rounds firedby A-10's. I know I have been exposed to it, but I don't see any adverse effects. I didn't pick it up, go looking for it, or handle it, but I think its depleted so its not radioactive and relatively safe. I am not a scientist and not 100% sure. I never recieved any info on it, or maybe I did while in base camp between debriefing from one mission and briefing for another when I should have been sleeping. If that was the case I either a. didn't show up, or b. showed up and slept through it.
  • jsuggsjsuggs Member Posts: 110 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DU is slightly radioactive. It is kind of like asbestose, it gets in your lungs and sits there where it may eventually cause harm. So the true effects on veterans will not be known for years, if ever. I dont know about you but I would rather die from cancer or whatever the DU does to me when I am 70 than die on the battle field now. Anyway the amount of DU used by the military is grately exadurated. Just because a A10, Appache, or Bradley are firing dosent mean it is DU. They do make HE rounds for all of those weapons.
  • wittynbearwittynbear Member Posts: 4,518
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jsuggs
    DU is slightly radioactive. It is kind of like asbestose, it gets in your lungs and sits there where it may eventually cause harm. So the true effects on veterans will not be known for years, if ever. I dont know about you but I would rather die from cancer or whatever the DU does to me when I am 70 than die on the battle field now. Anyway the amount of DU used by the military is grately exadurated. Just because a A10, Appache, or Bradley are firing dosent mean it is DU. They do make HE rounds for all of those weapons.

    I could care less I made up my mind many years ago I am already dead I'm just on borrowed time. I have to die of something or else I'll be 120 laying in a hospital dying of nothing. Life life, screw it.
  • RichardCRichardC Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have been able to use a counter, well, to play with one, and was supprised to see how many things I had in the home and shop that were slightly radio active. Some tools, watches, power lines and granite[rock] we live in the mountains. The granite in some areas seem highly active, even sunlight seems to be. I cast bullets from wheel weights, some lead gets a reading. I have never had DU that I know of but wonder how it would compare.
    As for bad mouthing the men and women who serve our country. I have noticed that thoes who do this tend not to notice or point out actions of the enemy combatants. Embarassing a proud militant is tourture while mutilating and decapitating done by the enemy is not mentioned.
    Our armed forces are the best we have, there none better in this world. It is hard to trust thoes who pick and harass them because they are us. If you hate and distrust our forces you hate us.
    I'm using "You" journalistically.
  • xranger3rdbattxranger3rdbatt Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Who else received a letter from DOD saying they were exposed to DU but would not see any effects?
  • kyplumberkyplumber Member Posts: 11,111
    edited November -1
    RevolutionJim,

    you certainly made many people question many things! I miss ya ol buddy!
  • woodguruwoodguru Member Posts: 2,850
    edited November -1
    My brother was in the first Gulf war, went home for Xmas and had a stillborn baby 8 months later, 2nd attempt he has a daughter with a heart defect.

    He got * around for 10 years and finally has a high disability rating. Desert Storm Syndrome was denied and attributed (finally) as some weird combo of the anti nerve gas drugs and other things they were forced to take.

    The symptoms he has coupled with the birth defects would fit with depleted uranium.
  • COBmmcmssCOBmmcmss Member Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by woodguru
    My brother was in the first Gulf war, went home for Xmas and had a stillborn baby 8 months later, 2nd attempt he has a daughter with a heart defect....The symptoms he has coupled with the birth defects would fit with depleted uranium.


    As sorry as I feel for your brother and more importantly his wife suffering a stillborn child, the time line you present and the facts detailing depleted uranium do not fit at all.

    I've said it all before, you have no credibility in this venue.

    COB
  • woodguruwoodguru Member Posts: 2,850
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by COBmmcmss
    quote:Originally posted by woodguru
    My brother was in the first Gulf war, went home for Xmas and had a stillborn baby 8 months later, 2nd attempt he has a daughter with a heart defect....The symptoms he has coupled with the birth defects would fit with depleted uranium.


    As sorry as I feel for your brother and more importantly his wife suffering a stillborn child, the time line you present and the facts detailing depleted uranium do not fit at all.

    I've said it all before, you have no credibility in this venue.

    COB


    Yours is starting to wear a little thin Bubba.

    The timeline fits perfectly, I don't have a clue how you think it doesn't

    First of all are you defending against the whole idea of desert storm syndrome and putting it off as some figment of people's imagination?

    There are somewhere around 37 symptoms of desert storm syndrome that are used to determine the severity of the case. My brother has 27 of them. The 27 were determined and verified under quite an array of evaluation and testing.

    Let's see about timeline. He had a daughter everything fine, went over to Iraq for somewhere around a year, goes home on leave at christmas, conceives another kid, it's malformed and stillborn. Tries the next year and has a daughter that has a heart deficiency that needs a very risky surgery. Gets * around by the military for several years trying to hold out for his retirement, was shooting for 30 but ended up discharged at about 20 something due to some very interesting ailments.

    It would be best if we agreed to stay out of each other's stuff COB, you have me way wrong, have made a clown out of yourself where I am concerned so just leave it. I know quite an array of things about the military, there are a lot of areas I don't know nearly as much as I'd like to. You are bashing me for asking questions as well as saying things about the things I do in fact know something about. I have one good little segment of information that many do not, the picture becomes more complete as people share their pieces. Anyone that had more specific questions about what my brother is dealing with would be gladly followed up with exact specifics from him.

    Cease on the ignorant personal harassment, please.
  • COBmmcmssCOBmmcmss Member Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by woodguru
    Yours is starting to wear a little thin Bubba.

    The timeline fits perfectly, I don't have a clue how you think it doesn't

    First of all are you defending against the whole idea of desert storm syndrome and putting it off as some figment of people's imagination?

    There are somewhere around 37 symptoms of desert storm syndrome that are used to determine the severity of the case. My brother has 27 of them. The 27 were determined and verified under quite an array of evaluation and testing.

    Let's see about timeline. He had a daughter everything fine, went over to Iraq for somewhere around a year, goes home on leave at christmas, conceives another kid, it's malformed and stillborn. Tries the next year and has a daughter that has a heart deficiency that needs a very risky surgery. Gets * around by the military for several years trying to hold out for his retirement, was shooting for 30 but ended up discharged at about 20 something due to some very interesting ailments.

    It would be best if we agreed to stay out of each other's stuff COB, you have me way wrong, have made a clown out of yourself where I am concerned so just leave it. I know quite an array of things about the military, there are a lot of areas I don't know nearly as much as I'd like to. You are bashing me for asking questions as well as saying things about the things I do in fact know something about. I have one good little segment of information that many do not, the picture becomes more complete as people share their pieces. Anyone that had more specific questions about what my brother is dealing with would be gladly followed up with exact specifics from him.

    Cease on the ignorant personal harassment, please.


    What appears to be wearing thin around here Woody is your incessant name calling when anyone challenges you on your personal beliefs. I have watched you make a fool out of yourself trying to foist your party line on every topic you choose. Now I see you in an area dedicated to Gulf War vets wherein you have never served. Hmmm

    No, I believe the Gulf War Syndrome is real, which shows you what you don't know about me either. I would disagree probably with your characterization of what it is though.

    As to what you know, you appear to know very little hence your propensity to ask so many (to use your words) ignorant questions.

    What's saddening is your constant barrage of political opinion wrapped around every question you ask, as if it's a personal vendetta of yours to find someone to finally agree with you.

    Well you've done it partially. I will agree to refrain from any "ignorant personal harassment" as you call it. But to be fair, mine is anything but ignorant. So let's just say I will continue to give you the opportunity to ask genuine open questions; HOWEVER, when you start giving personal opinion that is false or unsubstantiated... expect to be called out on it.

    As to the time line, go back and study the effects of radiation on the male human body and you'll better understand exactly why I say the time line is off. AFTER you've spent either 1) as many years in the military as I have, or 2) as many years dealing with radioactivity as I have, THEN I'll consider you opinion as potentially valid. Until then, you have merely an uneducated guess and nothing more.

    My best wishes to you for a better New Year.

    COB
    [8D]
  • 42N42N Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, obviously ya'll didn't do your homework on depleted uranium. The danger from DU is not the radiation it's the fact that DU is a heavy metal and when ingested by a human gets into the kidneys, settles and then starts causing medical problems. We are all around DU just from being on earth but when a couple buddies find an Iraqi tank that was hit by a DU round and one of them leans against it for a pic then later on eats his MRE and the DU is on his hands there starts the problem.
  • COBmmcmssCOBmmcmss Member Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 42N
    Well, obviously ya'll didn't do your homework on depleted uranium. The danger from DU is not the radiation it's the fact that DU is a heavy metal and when ingested by a human gets into the kidneys, settles and then starts causing medical problems. We are all around DU just from being on earth but when a couple buddies find an Iraqi tank that was hit by a DU round and one of them leans against it for a pic then later on eats his MRE and the DU is on his hands there starts the problem.


    42 - When you go back to do your homework, check you'll find heavy metal poisoning and kelation go hand in hand. The heavy metal has to get into the system. That doesn't happen by just leaning on a tank and then eating. What's required is a LOT more. Kelation is the method to remove the heavy metal. I'm a lot more versed and knowledgeable on this issue than you may apparently realize. The amount of dust required to do damage is significantly greater than illustrated.

    COB
  • lykum357lykum357 Member Posts: 19 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Takes a long time for those heavy particles to absorb into the ground, and that's for a relatively wet environment. The desert might take awhile longer to dissipate enough.

    Interesting TYT actually covered this in a youtube segment very horrific and sad:

  • Wild TurkeyWild Turkey Member Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Couple of problems in this thread. Quote from a post above:

    "radioactive dust from exploded depleted uranium shells"

    DU shells do not "explode" -- they are kinetic energy rounds. It is used because it is harder and denser than any other metal and therefore carries more energy to the target than a tungsten carbide round.

    We also need to define "DU" -- it is Uranium 238, and gets it name from the fact that it's made from Uranium ore which has been processed to remove the radioactive isotopes (mostly 235) for use in nuclear weapons.

    Consider the difference in the atomic mass between 235 and 238 amu's. It's obvious that no separation process will be perfect so some "radioactive" isotopes are left.

    There should be very little radiation emitted from the rounds themselves. Is there some? Yes, but there's some radiation in the background. Ever heard of Radon? It's a radioactive gas that many houses have to be tested for. We also get some from space, etc.

    I'm not saying there's no problem. We have learned that when the rounds impact on armor plate there is some dust created, and that that dust can include radioactive atoms.

    Also be careful discussing the particles -- Alpha particles are the particles the size of Hydrogen atoms that can be inhaled, ingested, etc and cause problems later but are stopped by almost any barrier or filter so are rarely a problem.

    However, every batch of ore, etc was processed a little differently so the purity of the 238 used may vary from batch to batch which may have caused some of the conflicting readings.

    Another problem is that when a DU projectile goes through something the outer layers are abraded and this can release a dust that contains lots of unpleasant stuff.

    But there are too many variables to blame all the problems on DU.

    If we want to understand the problem first we have to get accurate data and that's where the "alternative" press does some damage by hyping incomplete or inaccurate information.

    So if we want to know "THE TRUTH" we need to stick to the facts, not our fears.

    I grew up close to the Pantex Ordinance Plant (the place in the Texas Panhandle where atomic bombs were assembled and are now disassembeled) and a good friend has died from cancer, probably caused by exposure to radioactive material from Pantex.

    We also have to remember that when folks were sent to the desert they got a lot of shots which we may not know ALL of what was in them, and were exposed to lots of "Bad Guy" stuff we may not have recognized, such as chemical or biological warfare that could cause problems.

    On top of that everyone reacts differently.

    Is it possible there are "secrets" about DU, etc that we don't know? Possibly, even probably. Consider how long it's taken to get Agent Orange information.

    What I'm trying to say is let's cut the BS and deal with the facts. Yes, what some folks consider "facts" are another person's fable, but let's settle down and do serious research, not "tabloid terrorism".
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