.

Cummins vs. Issa

pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,230 ✭✭✭
edited April 2014 in Politics
Issa cut off Cummins when he tried to defend the Democrat position on the IRS scandal. I love it when the left handed Reps get shut down...What is his problem with getting at the truth about the targeting of the IRS on Tea Party Members?

Comments

  • gary wraygary wray Member Posts: 4,663
    edited November -1
    This committee is going nowhere until they start to get serious with getting the IRS true story. *'s just putting up a smokescreen to take the heat off Lerner and her emails. There is something there and I think it lead to the White House somehow but proving it is going to be hard. Going to end up like Whitewater....the DEMS are really good at this....*'s is just running interference for the White House.
  • us55840us55840 Member Posts: 31,320 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    IF there were no improper or illegal activities, Learner would answer the questions instead of invoking the 5th Amendment rights. Such stonewalling by an employee of the taxpayers is pure corruption.

    She is probably more afraid of the 'puppet masters' than Issa or the investigative committee.

    [:(]
    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
  • wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 996 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It'll end up being just another example of piss poor political theater.
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840


    IF there were no improper or illegal activities, Learner would answer the questions instead of invoking the 5th Amendment rights. Such stonewalling by an employee of the taxpayers is pure corruption.

    She is probably more afraid of the 'puppet masters' than Issa or the investigative committee.

    [:(]


    That was my first thought, BUT think Lewis (Scooter) Libby.
    (one count of obstruction of justice, two counts of perjury, and one count of making false statements)

    I would like Congress to drop the committees and go to a Special Prosecutor.
  • blogdog37blogdog37 Member Posts: 372 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840


    IF there were no improper or illegal activities, Learner would answer the questions instead of invoking the 5th Amendment rights. Such stonewalling by an employee of the taxpayers is pure corruption.

    She is probably more afraid of the 'puppet masters' than Issa or the investigative committee.

    [:(]

    Some of the attorneys that are defending these government types invoking 5th Amendment use the same verbiage common criminals use, 4th district court of appeals has thrown out convictions in the past for DJ phone taping of 113,000 citizens, the same figure of the illegalities is presently over one million Americans who the DJ has spied on without warrants. The Obama Administration is presently engaged is the same type of illegalities the GWB did, these happenings are the reason changes to laws where a President only serves one six year term. All presidents ignore the law in their second terms.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 31,002 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It made good TV but overall it was as useless as teats on a boar hog. The whole affair will get shoved under the rug just like Harry Reids land deal, Christopher Dodds Mortgage, Obama's school records and Nancy Pelosi's booze bills.

    Nothing good is going to come out of the halls of congress, nothing good for "We the People". Expecting any real good from congress is like expecting good smells to come out of any cesspool.
  • us55840us55840 Member Posts: 31,320 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I will find it very, very difficult if not impossible to vote for any incumbent next November.

    [:)]
    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840

    I will find it very, very difficult if not impossible to vote for any incumbent next November.

    [:)]


    Why??

    they are just doing what the electorate wanted. the democrats are pushing their change to turn the US into a socialist country and the republicans are doing what they can to stop it.

    So what's not to like??
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840

    I will find it very, very difficult if not impossible to vote for any incumbent next November.

    [:)]

    That is what primaries are for.
    At the federal level you will have 1 member of the House and possibly 1 of the 18 Senators up for reelection.
    While it is difficult, it is not impossible to unseat an incumbent.
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/09/top-dem-on-house-committee-investigating-irs-scandal-may-have-been-involved-in-targeting-of-conservative-group-issa/

    We are long overdue for a special prosecutor.
    take this from the political arena.
    it has been referred to the ethics committee. But was this interaction LEGAL?
  • us55840us55840 Member Posts: 31,320 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    From the TV news this AM, apparently an email surfaced from Lois Lerner that is ??? so congress may file criminal charges. And, if congress gave her immunity to testify, she could get off scott free by telling all she knows.

    Time will tell ~ or not.
    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i don't think it likely she had any immunity to testify, that would have been blown out of the water by taking the 5th.
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,402
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Ray B
    quote:Originally posted by us55840

    I will find it very, very difficult if not impossible to vote for any incumbent next November.

    [:)]


    Why??

    they are just doing what the electorate wanted. the democrats are pushing their change to turn the US into a socialist country and the republicans are doing what they can to stop it.

    So what's not to like??


    Voting just makes them think they are doing a good job. I'm not poor enough to be a Democrat nor rich enough to be a Republican so what's the point?
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yea me too!
    i couldn't afford to attend O's $32,000 a person fundraiser today.

    Don't vote. It only encourages the buzzards.
  • us55840us55840 Member Posts: 31,320 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Voting is the ONLY say a private citizen has regarding those who make the laws....short of open rebellion.

    In some states, one can even vote for an independent IF they are able to get on the ballot.
    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,848 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840


    IF there were no improper or illegal activities, Learner would answer the questions instead of invoking the 5th Amendment rights. Such stonewalling by an employee of the taxpayers is pure corruption.

    She is probably more afraid of the 'puppet masters' than Issa or the investigative committee.

    [:(]


    The old 'nothing to hide, nothing to worry about' theory?

    Don't like it when it is done to a private citizen, and I don't think it appropriate for a public figure.

    She has left office, and is subject now only to criminal prosecution. It may be necessary, but she is still protected by the 5th.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yup, nothing to see keep moving.

    Was she under OATH?

    I don't think a Congressional hearing is the same a grand jury or actually in court.

    could she be prosecuted for lying to congress (i think she did), or obstruction of justice by giving false or miss leading answers (again i think she did), perhaps ask Col North..

    "but she is still protected by the 5th" not from prosecution, only as noted.

    Amendment V
    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
  • wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 996 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't remember that last time any hearing of importance accomplished anything of note, if anything at all. It's all political theater anymore, a show for public consumption peddled by a media complex that couldn't spell truth let alone report it.
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    I can't remember that last time any hearing of importance accomplished anything of note, if anything at all. It's all political theater anymore, a show for public consumption peddled by a media complex that couldn't spell truth let alone report it.


    As far as resolution you are correct. But without the hearings what would the public know about F&F, IRS, etc.

    I have absolutely 0 confidence in the Media doing ANY investigation.
  • wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 996 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by casper1947
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    I can't remember that last time any hearing of importance accomplished anything of note, if anything at all. It's all political theater anymore, a show for public consumption peddled by a media complex that couldn't spell truth let alone report it.


    As far as resolution you are correct. But without the hearings what would the public know about F&F, IRS, etc.

    I have absolutely 0 confidence in the Media doing ANY investigation.




    Even with hearings we know squat. It's one thing if they investigated and did something useful, it's another to see this continuous dog and pony show (regardless of the issue) that accomplishes nothing, wastes resources, and appears to be geared to BS the public until such time that the public's attention is focused elsewhere (which all too often happens very quickly). We only have the illusion that something is being done much like we have the illusion that there's a difference between the repub's and the dem's.
  • pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,230 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Issa is no different than the woman he is questioning...The only difference in Issa and Cummins is one is black...[:o)]
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    quote:Originally posted by casper1947
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    I can't remember that last time any hearing of importance accomplished anything of note, if anything at all. It's all political theater anymore, a show for public consumption peddled by a media complex that couldn't spell truth let alone report it.


    As far as resolution you are correct. But without the hearings what would the public know about F&F, IRS, etc.

    I have absolutely 0 confidence in the Media doing ANY investigation.




    Even with hearings we know squat. It's one thing if they investigated and did something useful, it's another to see this continuous dog and pony show (regardless of the issue) that accomplishes nothing, wastes resources, and appears to be geared to BS the public until such time that the public's attention is focused elsewhere (which all too often happens very quickly). We only have the illusion that something is being done much like we have the illusion that there's a difference between the repub's and the dem's.

    IRS targeting of conservative groups was done by a couple of staffers in the Cincinnati office.

    Benghazi was the result of a protest over a video.

    Fast and Furious was a Bush operation.

    Congressional oversight is one of the basic Check and Balance between co-equal branches of government. They do not have Judicial (court) power nor investigation/prosecution power (DOJ), They may refer the investigation to the DOJ .

    Holder should have been impeached for lying to congress, contempt of congress and obstruction. This will not happen because the R's will be labeled as raciest and partisan by the D's because they are partisan and only have the "race card" to bring to an argument.

    But there is NO difference between Maria Cantwell/Patty Murray and Ted Cruz/John Cornyn?
  • us55840us55840 Member Posts: 31,320 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:

    Fast and Furious was a Bush operation.







    NOT entirely true. There was an operation like Fast and Furious during the Bush administration for a short time but was discontinued as a bad, ineffective operation.

    The Fast & Furious operation under the obama administration would have continued had it not been exposed.
    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840
    quote:

    Fast and Furious was a Bush operation.







    NOT entirely true. There was an operation like Fast and Furious during the Bush administration for a short time but was discontinued as a bad, ineffective operation.

    The Fast & Furious operation under the obama administration would have continued had it not been exposed.




    Actually none of them are true, that was the point. These were the explanations given by the administration when questioned.

    Do we know more now, could it be because of the congressional investigation?
  • wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 996 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by casper1947
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    quote:Originally posted by casper1947
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    I can't remember that last time any hearing of importance accomplished anything of note, if anything at all. It's all political theater anymore, a show for public consumption peddled by a media complex that couldn't spell truth let alone report it.


    As far as resolution you are correct. But without the hearings what would the public know about F&F, IRS, etc.

    I have absolutely 0 confidence in the Media doing ANY investigation.




    Even with hearings we know squat. It's one thing if they investigated and did something useful, it's another to see this continuous dog and pony show (regardless of the issue) that accomplishes nothing, wastes resources, and appears to be geared to BS the public until such time that the public's attention is focused elsewhere (which all too often happens very quickly). We only have the illusion that something is being done much like we have the illusion that there's a difference between the repub's and the dem's.

    IRS targeting of conservative groups was done by a couple of staffers in the Cincinnati office.

    I seriously doubt the IRS scandal were simply the actions of a couple of staffers in Ohio.

    Benghazi was the result of a protest over a video.

    Benghazi was a terrorist attack and the fed's even admit that....now.

    Fast and Furious was a Bush operation.

    Operation Wide Receiver was the Bush operation and it was a failure. Only around 60 weapons, out of over 470, were ever recovered. But at least no agent's were killed during it's run.


    Congressional oversight is one of the basic Check and Balance between co-equal branches of government. They do not have Judicial (court) power nor investigation/prosecution power (DOJ), They may refer the investigation to the DOJ .

    It used to be one of the checks and balances, no longer. The Fast and Furious issue has been going on for over 3 years and they have accomplished nothing. The IRS scandal was committed by low level staffers out of one state office??, then why does Lerner need to take the fifth?? Why are documents redacted??, Why didn't congress just grant her immunity thereby compelling her testimony?? If she was found to be lying she would have lost her immunity and could be prosecuted.

    Holder should have been impeached for lying to congress, contempt of congress and obstruction. This will not happen because the R's will be labeled as raciest and partisan by the D's because they are partisan and only have the "race card" to bring to an argument.

    Holder should be in jail...period! And I don't think it's as simple as fear of the "race card". I think both parties are corrupt and in cahoots more than we know. We only have the illusion they're different, but when one steps back and views things objectively and not thru the "left right" nonsense peddled by politician's and the media one see's a lot more clearly.

    But there is NO difference between Maria Cantwell/Patty Murray and Ted Cruz/John Cornyn?

    Beyond rhetoric, no. Talking the talk and walking the walk are two different things. I'm from Washington state so I am well aware of Cantwell and Murray, living proof that stupid people shouldn't be allowed to vote. While I find congress's low approval rating to be exceptionally well deserved, it's ironic that incumbents are somehow re-elected at a better than 90% rate. Until the public wakes up and holds these * accountable for their actions/lack of action it will never change and the public will continue to be treated like mushrooms, kept in the dark and feed bullchit!
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