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The Debt!

wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭
edited May 2014 in Politics
By the time Obama leaves office he will have accumulated as much debt in his 8 years (at the current rate of accumulation) than all presidents in the history of the republic combined! And what exactly has all this accomplished??? Pretty scary when you stop and think about it and pretty pathetic when one looks at the future our kid's and grandchildren have facing them.

Comments

  • serfserf Member Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A flood of money and a flood of water? It will be like in the time of Noah? It seems no one really cares or is building his boat? i.e. The END!

    serf

    http://biblehub.com/matthew/24-37.htm



    If, as seems probable, the antediluvians had more than a century's warning of the coming flood, it can hardly be only the suddenness of the calamity to which Christ would point?
  • wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And nothing is done about it, except talk to placate the masses. It can never be paid off, hell it cost taxpayers 3-500 billion a year alone just to service the debt. And what does the public do....pretty much nothing.
  • the middlethe middle Member Posts: 3,089
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    And nothing is done about it, except talk to placate the masses. It can never be paid off, hell it cost taxpayers 3-500 billion a year alone just to service the debt. And what does the public do....pretty much nothing.


    Do you know, just how much WW2 cost and how far we were in debt after it?

    It was 120% of GDP. we are just barely at 100% now.

    The debt after WW2 was paid off....mostly....in 15 years.

    Bottom line....if we wanted to, we can very easily pay the debt off.


    But the poor suffering rich would have to pay more....and we cant have that!!!!!!
  • the middlethe middle Member Posts: 3,089
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by us55840
    quote:Originally posted by the middle
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    And nothing is done about it, except talk to placate the masses. It can never be paid off, hell it cost taxpayers 3-500 billion a year alone just to service the debt. And what does the public do....pretty much nothing.


    Do you know, just how much WW2 cost and how far we were in debt after it?

    It was 120% of GDP. we are just barely at 100% now.

    The debt after WW2 was paid off....mostly....in 15 years.

    Bottom line....if we wanted to, we can very easily pay the debt off.


    But the poor suffering rich would have to pay more....and we cant have that!!!!!!


    And who decides who is "rich" and what is "rich?"

    Current tax rates 2014 are here:
    http://taxes.about.com/od/Federal-Income-Taxes/fl/Federal-Income-Tax-Rates-for-the-Year-2014.htm

    Looks like a "rich" self employed person pays about 40% plus 12% which is over 50% of their income excluding state/local taxes and other fees that are the same as taxes.

    Over half paid to Cesar isn't enough for you?

    Personally, I would favor a straight 'flat tax' of x% of your income from any and every source with zero deductions. That way everyone would pay, including those sucking off the government teat.

    Currently nearly only about half the population works and they support themselves plus the other 50%.

    There is something seriously wrong with that picture! [}:)]




    The top rate was 90% not all that long ago. Nobody ever paid that much, because the tax code was written in such a way that expenses could be written off. So, if that rich guy built a factory, he wrote the costs off his taxes.....and in the process hired people, paid them, who in turn, paid taxes....and so on.


    I do agree.....not enough numbers of people paying taxes is a big problem right now...but then.....where are the factories to get jobs? what industry pays a good wage anymore so that employee even has money to pay taxes?

    EPA.....one problem
    Over regulation.....another.

    Lowest tax rate ever on "investment" income.....biggest problem. Its easier to pick up a phone, make a trade, collect cash, then it is to build a factory and make money the old fashioned way......


    Tone down the EPA, cut regulations.....and do what Reagan did....tax all income...for any source, at the same rate! Remember "Income is income"?
  • wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by the middle
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    And nothing is done about it, except talk to placate the masses. It can never be paid off, hell it cost taxpayers 3-500 billion a year alone just to service the debt. And what does the public do....pretty much nothing.


    Do you know, just how much WW2 cost and how far we were in debt after it?

    It was 120% of GDP. we are just barely at 100% now.

    The debt after WW2 was paid off....mostly....in 15 years.

    Bottom line....if we wanted to, we can very easily pay the debt off.


    But the poor suffering rich would have to pay more....and we cant have that!!!!!!



    Better recheck your numbers.

    For one, the national debt was around 258 billion in June 1945 and today it stands approaching 18 trillion dollars and climbing with no end in sight. Big difference!! The war debt was never truly repaid and the last president to make any dent in it was Ike and that was only for 2 years. Don't believe it, check out the national debt numbers.

    Our industrial base was largely intact after WW2, particularly relative to general consumption. Now much of that base has been outsourced along with the tax base it created thanks to NAFTA.

    Social Security pays out more than it takes in, medicare/Medicaid are essentially insolvent and rife with fraud. Student loans topping well over a trillion bucks with a growing default rate, over 100 million collecting some form of assistance supported by an ever decreasing number of full time workers. It goes on an on with no end in sight, just endless pablum spewed by the corrupt in goverment and peddled by an equally corrupt media complex.

    Tax the rich!!???!!, sure go ahead, why not, they already pay most of it anyways so squeezing a lot more won't bother them right. It won't fix anything because that's not the problem and every economist worth their salt knows it and it's be explained ad nauseum. It's BS class warfare to distract an increasingly stupid public. And sadly it's working.
  • the middlethe middle Member Posts: 3,089
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    quote:Originally posted by the middle
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    And nothing is done about it, except talk to placate the masses. It can never be paid off, hell it cost taxpayers 3-500 billion a year alone just to service the debt. And what does the public do....pretty much nothing.


    Do you know, just how much WW2 cost and how far we were in debt after it?

    It was 120% of GDP. we are just barely at 100% now.

    The debt after WW2 was paid off....mostly....in 15 years.

    Bottom line....if we wanted to, we can very easily pay the debt off.


    But the poor suffering rich would have to pay more....and we cant have that!!!!!!



    Better recheck your numbers.

    For one, the national debt was around 258 billion in June 1945 and today it stands approaching 18 trillion dollars and climbing with no end in sight. Big difference!! The war debt was never truly repaid and the last president to make any dent in it was Ike and that was only for 2 years. Don't believe it, check out the national debt numbers.

    Our industrial base was largely intact after WW2, particularly relative to general consumption. Now much of that base has been outsourced along with the tax base it created thanks to NAFTA.

    Social Security pays out more than it takes in, medicare/Medicaid are essentially insolvent and rife with fraud. Student loans topping well over a trillion bucks with a growing default rate, over 100 million collecting some form of assistance supported by an ever decreasing number of full time workers. It goes on an on with no end in sight, just endless pablum spewed by the corrupt in goverment and peddled by an equally corrupt media complex.

    Tax the rich!!???!!, sure go ahead, why not, they already pay most of it anyways so squeezing a lot more won't bother them right. It won't fix anything because that's not the problem and every economist worth their salt knows it and it's be explained ad nauseum. It's BS class warfare to distract an increasingly stupid public. And sadly it's working.






    You must adjust for inflation......258 billion then is about 28 TRILLION today......


    And for the rest.....I have checked....unlike you, I dont just start typing nonsense......the WW2 was mostly paid off in 15 years.....and the national debt continued to decline until Nixon took office, then is slowly climbed until Reagan took over....when it absolutely skyrocketed........and has ever since except for a brief time under Clinton when tax recipients where bulging due to a hot economy.....until W...and then Big ears together have pretty much wrecked us!
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 31,944 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by the middle
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    And nothing is done about it, except talk to placate the masses. It can never be paid off, hell it cost taxpayers 3-500 billion a year alone just to service the debt. And what does the public do....pretty much nothing.


    Do you know, just how much WW2 cost and how far we were in debt after it?

    It was 120% of GDP. we are just barely at 100% now.

    The debt after WW2 was paid off....mostly....in 15 years.

    Bottom line....if we wanted to, we can very easily pay the debt off.


    But the poor suffering rich would have to pay more....and we cant have that!!!!!!


    At your income level you are rich, you are VERY well off by the standards of most people. If you think that paying more in taxes is the solution to the debt and spending problems of our nation why don't you put your money where your mouth is and send a few hundred bucks extra every month to your beloved Federal Government???
  • the middlethe middle Member Posts: 3,089
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by the middle
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    And nothing is done about it, except talk to placate the masses. It can never be paid off, hell it cost taxpayers 3-500 billion a year alone just to service the debt. And what does the public do....pretty much nothing.


    Do you know, just how much WW2 cost and how far we were in debt after it?

    It was 120% of GDP. we are just barely at 100% now.

    The debt after WW2 was paid off....mostly....in 15 years.

    Bottom line....if we wanted to, we can very easily pay the debt off.


    But the poor suffering rich would have to pay more....and we cant have that!!!!!!


    At your income level you are rich, you are VERY well off by the standards of most people. If you think that paying more in taxes is the solution to the debt and spending problems of our nation why don't you put your money where your mouth is and send a few hundred bucks extra every month to your beloved Federal Government???


    I was not serious with that last line.....I forgot the green font.

    More to my point.....the "rich"....just dont invest like they used too. Much too easy to make money off hedge funds than build industry.

    And yes....too much government interference.....
  • gary wraygary wray Member Posts: 4,663
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    By the time Obama leaves office he will have accumulated as much debt in his 8 years (at the current rate of accumulation) than all presidents in the history of the republic combined! And what exactly has all this accomplished??? Pretty scary when you stop and think about it and pretty pathetic when one looks at the future our kid's and grandchildren have facing them.


    And if elect a business oriented, free market POTUS in 2016 we can turn around this economy quickly IMO. Heck, Bill Clinton got the economy humming in the 90's and halved the debt pretty quick. But we need to link arms around the nonDEM candidate and I hope and pray we an do that rather than the stupid results we have seen over the last eight years where the LIBS have eaten our lunch cause we can't get along and eat our own. And contrary to your thoughts, we are still the richest country in the world with the highest GDP and we can do this if we link arms and just "do it." I actually feel real good about the future for my three daughters and eight grandkids. We just need the right leadership to get out of their way and let them realize their dream.
  • wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by the middle
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    quote:Originally posted by the middle
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    And nothing is done about it, except talk to placate the masses. It can never be paid off, hell it cost taxpayers 3-500 billion a year alone just to service the debt. And what does the public do....pretty much nothing.


    Do you know, just how much WW2 cost and how far we were in debt after it?

    It was 120% of GDP. we are just barely at 100% now.

    The debt after WW2 was paid off....mostly....in 15 years.

    Bottom line....if we wanted to, we can very easily pay the debt off.


    But the poor suffering rich would have to pay more....and we cant have that!!!!!!



    Better recheck your numbers.

    For one, the national debt was around 258 billion in June 1945 and today it stands approaching 18 trillion dollars and climbing with no end in sight. Big difference!! The war debt was never truly repaid and the last president to make any dent in it was Ike and that was only for 2 years. Don't believe it, check out the national debt numbers.

    Our industrial base was largely intact after WW2, particularly relative to general consumption. Now much of that base has been outsourced along with the tax base it created thanks to NAFTA.

    Social Security pays out more than it takes in, medicare/Medicaid are essentially insolvent and rife with fraud. Student loans topping well over a trillion bucks with a growing default rate, over 100 million collecting some form of assistance supported by an ever decreasing number of full time workers. It goes on an on with no end in sight, just endless pablum spewed by the corrupt in goverment and peddled by an equally corrupt media complex.

    Tax the rich!!???!!, sure go ahead, why not, they already pay most of it anyways so squeezing a lot more won't bother them right. It won't fix anything because that's not the problem and every economist worth their salt knows it and it's be explained ad nauseum. It's BS class warfare to distract an increasingly stupid public. And sadly it's working.






    You must adjust for inflation......258 billion then is about 28 TRILLION today......


    And for the rest.....I have checked....unlike you, I dont just start typing nonsense......the WW2 was mostly paid off in 15 years.....and the national debt continued to decline until Nixon took office, then is slowly climbed until Reagan took over....when it absolutely skyrocketed........and has ever since except for a brief time under Clinton when tax recipients where bulging due to a hot economy.....until W...and then Big ears together have pretty much wrecked us!


    The simple fact is that the national debt acquired during the war was never repaid. The government ran up the debt by 220+ billion dollars over the course of the war. In addition to that debt it sold 185 billion dollars in war bonds to 85 million americans over the same time frame. Those war bonds had to be repaid as they matured and were redeemed, they didn't have a choice on that and the war bonds were a separate issue from the debt. The national debt itself slowly grew in a somewhat stable manner until the 60's. I only found 4 years in which the national debt actually declined; 1947 and 1951 under the Truman administration and 1956 and 1957 under Eisenhower. Other than those 4 years the national debt has continued to grow. It never declined under Nixon, ballooned under Reagan, grew by 2.1 trillion under Clinton, though in fairness to Clinton his was the last administration that actually made a payment against the principal.

    Under "W" and Obama the debt has absolutely exploded. Obama will hold the distinction of having acquired more debt in 8 years than all other presidents combined.

    It will never be paid off because there's no political will to do so. If there was we wouldn't have the problems we have now. All we get is rhetoric and every once in a while they dance on the edges but never address the root cause which is runaway spending. Just think of what good could be done nationally if they were able to use the 300-500 billion dollars on something other than interest payments on the debt.

    The rich don't invest in this country like they use too because there's no legitimate reason for them to do so. The government, BOTH PARTY'S, have created an environment that is hostile. Nafta gave corporate America the green light to move our industrial base off shore where they pay pennies on the dollar in labor costs and don't have to worry about Osha, EPA, IRS, union's, city-county-state-federal regulations and so on.

    However one wants to view things, the game is rigged, the deck is stacked and the public has no one to blame but themselves. They put these clowns into office. They hold no one accountable, "my rep isn't the problem it's the other guy", and the legendary apathy and disengagement for which the public is noted for has bit them in the *.

    Until the public wakes up and decides to do something really constructive for a change nothing will ever change. We, as a country, will continue to circle the drain until this house of cards implodes.
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,402
    edited November -1
    It is paid off by inflation. The VALUE of the debt keeps going down as the value of the Dollar keeps going down. The real problem would arise if the debt was paid down. Then the Dollar would go up in value, the value of the debt (and all other debts) would rise.
    Remember just a few years ago when the Federal Reserve was warning of the danger of DEFLATION.
    What really bugs me is that we earn meager returns in interest, the value of our money goes down more than the interest & WE ARE TAXED on the interest. Talk about adding insult to injury.
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 38,925
    edited November -1
    the rich will simply move their business overseas and rake in the money like the Chinese(MFN status helps make it easy)...I at my economic level are stuck here with the consequences
  • RocklobsterRocklobster Member Posts: 7,060
    edited November -1
    It's all by design. Without debt there would be no money. From Robert Hemphill, Credit Manager of the Federal Reserve Bank in Atlanta:

    "If all the bank loans were paid, no one could have a bank deposit, and there would not be a dollar of coin or currency in circulation. This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash, or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless situation is almost incredible -- but there it is."

    From the Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis:

    "Modern monetary systems have a fiat base -- literally money by decree -- with depository institutions, acting as fiduciaries, creating obligations against themselves with the fiat base acting in part as reserves. The decree appears on the currency notes: 'This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private.'

    While no individual could refuse to accept such money for debt repayment, exchange contracts could easily be composed to thwart its use in everyday commerce. However, a forceful explanation as to why money is accepted is that the federal government requires it as payment for tax liabilities. Anticipation of the need to clear this debt creates a demand for the pure fiat dollars."

    Our money today has no gold or silver behind it whatsoever. It has traveled the path of all previous fractional money in history and already has degenerated into pure fiat money. The fact that most of it is in the form of checkbook balances rather than paper currency is a mere technicality. The so-called "reserve ratios" to which bankers refer are Treasury bonds and other certificates of debt.

    The actual mechanism by which the Federal Reserve creates money is quite simple. They do it exactly the same way the goldsmiths of old did except, of course, the goldsmiths were limited by the need to hold some precious metals in reserve, whereas the Fed has no such restriction.

    Marriner Eccles was the Governor of the Federal Reserve System in 1941. On September 30 of that year, Eccles was asked to give testimony before the House Committee on Banking and Currency. The purpose of the hearing was to obtain information regarding the role of the Federal Reserve in creating conditions that led to the depression of the 1930s.

    Congressman Wright Patman, who was Chairman of that committee, asked how the Fed got the money to purchase two billion dollars worth of government bonds in 1933:

    Eccles: We created it.
    Patman: Out of what?
    Eccles: Out of the right to issue credit money.
    Patman: And there is nothing behind it, is there, except our government's credit?
    Eccles: That is what our money system is. If there were no debts in our money system, there wouldn't be any money.
  • cbyerlycbyerly Member Posts: 689 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    For all you Obama *:
    All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives! Put the blame for the debit where it belongs!
  • wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cbyerly
    For all you Obama *:
    All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives! Put the blame for the debit where it belongs!



    And you would be correct, all spending bills originate in the House.
    And the democrats have controlled both House's of congress for most of the last 100 years. Not that the republicans have been any better when it comes to spending when they held control. Simple fact, spending by both party's have been out of control with only cosmetic attempts at restraint.
  • DaveJDaveJ Member Posts: 395 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ask yourselves who gains from all of this. International Banking is behind the mess that we're in. Kennedy warned us to " Beware of the gnomes of Zurich " .
  • Hunter MagHunter Mag Member Posts: 6,612 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
    By the time Obama leaves office he will have accumulated as much debt in his 8 years (at the current rate of accumulation) than all presidents in the history of the republic combined! And what exactly has all this accomplished???

    He accomplished the complete utter destruction of this country in the form of bankruptcy. There will be widespread anarchy with rape, robbery, looting, starvation to be the daily norm not long from now. Much more damage than any terrorist attacks could ever accomplish.
    Barrack Hussein Obama has finished off what his comrades failed to accomplish on 9-11.
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