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New Jersey Nurse Quarantined in a Tent
allen griggs
Member Posts: 35,229 ✭✭✭✭
Quarantined nurse blasts Gov. Christie as lawyer prepares to fight for her freedom
Kaci Hickox, 33, was the first person snared by the 21-day mandatory quarantine announced by Christie and Gov. Cuomo for anyone returning to New York or New Jersey after treating Ebola victims in West Africa. Civil rights attorney Norman Siegel has signed on to help Hickox sue for her freedom.
BY REUVEN BLAU , SASHA GOLDSTEIN , ERIN DURKIN NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Published: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 1:14 PM Updated: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 6:40 PM A A A
Kaci Hickox, 33, blasted Gov. Chris Christie on Sunday after being quarantine Friday following her return from Sierra Leone.
The nurse put under mandatory quarantine in New Jersey blasted Gov. Chris Christie on Sunday for the decision to isolate her and plans to take legal action to gain her freedom.
The quarantine tent in Newark, New Jersey, which has housed Kaci Hickox since she returned from Sierra Leone on October 24, 2014. Hickox had been treating Ebola victims.
"First of all, I don't think he (Christie) is a doctor, and second of all, he's never laid eyes on me," Kaci Hickox, 33, told CNN's Candy Crowley by phone from her quarantine tent outside University Hospital in Newark.
She said Christie was just wrong when he described her as "obviously ill" when she has no fever or other symptoms of the virus.
Hickox, who returned from working with Ebola victims in Sierra Leone, has retained civil rights attorney Norman Siegel to sue for her freedom in New Jersey federal court later this week.
"The mandatory quarantine policy enacted by Govs. Christie and Cuomo creates serious and substantial civil liberties issues," Siegel, the former head of the New York Civil Liberties Union, told the Daily News. "The policy infringes on Kaci Hickox's constitutional liberty."
Siegel said he had spoken to Hickox several times by phone and was cleared to meet with her later Sunday. He was gathering affidavits from legal experts to support their case.
To hold someone against his or her will, the government would have to prove a compelling public health reason, he said.
"Her temperature's 98.6. They took her blood and it's negative for Ebola. So I don't think they meet the requirements to confine her. And she wants out," he said. "You can't have a policy based on fear. It's got to be based on medical fact."
Hickox's boyfriend, Theodore Wilbur, 39, called his companion's confinement "fear mongering."
"They are doing it during the election season to drum up support for hardline members of the political establishment," he told The News from Maine, where the couple lives.
Hickox was singled out for extra screening after deplaning Friday at Newark Liberty Airport.
Following hours of tests and questioning, Hickox says she was ordered into isolation in an unheated tent outside University Hospital in Newark. She was the first person treated under the new rules in place in Jersey, New York and Illinois to quarantine anyone, including health workers, who have had contact with Ebola victims in Africa for 21 days.
The bathroom inside the tent outside University Hospital in Newark, where Kaci Hickox is being quarantined.
The extreme measures were described as "draconian" by the National Institute of Health's infectious disease director, Dr. Anthony Fauci, who appeared Sunday on NBC'S "Meet the Press."
"We need to treat them, returning (health workers), with respect, and make sure that - they're really heroes," he said.
Hickox said chaos reigned as health-care workers scrambled to set up her accommodations and monitoring. The tent has a portable toilet, no shower and little else. She's stuck only with her iPhone and a small window.
No one has communicated to her the quarantine protocol, or what will become of her for the next several days, Hickox said.
"To put me in prison is just inhumane," she told CNN.
She spoke to family on Sunday morning.
"I don't really know what's happening to my child," her mother, Karen Hickox, told the Daily News from Texas. "I love her with all my heart and I want her to be safe."
sgoldstein@nydailynews.co
Kaci Hickox, 33, was the first person snared by the 21-day mandatory quarantine announced by Christie and Gov. Cuomo for anyone returning to New York or New Jersey after treating Ebola victims in West Africa. Civil rights attorney Norman Siegel has signed on to help Hickox sue for her freedom.
BY REUVEN BLAU , SASHA GOLDSTEIN , ERIN DURKIN NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Published: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 1:14 PM Updated: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 6:40 PM A A A
Kaci Hickox, 33, blasted Gov. Chris Christie on Sunday after being quarantine Friday following her return from Sierra Leone.
The nurse put under mandatory quarantine in New Jersey blasted Gov. Chris Christie on Sunday for the decision to isolate her and plans to take legal action to gain her freedom.
The quarantine tent in Newark, New Jersey, which has housed Kaci Hickox since she returned from Sierra Leone on October 24, 2014. Hickox had been treating Ebola victims.
"First of all, I don't think he (Christie) is a doctor, and second of all, he's never laid eyes on me," Kaci Hickox, 33, told CNN's Candy Crowley by phone from her quarantine tent outside University Hospital in Newark.
She said Christie was just wrong when he described her as "obviously ill" when she has no fever or other symptoms of the virus.
Hickox, who returned from working with Ebola victims in Sierra Leone, has retained civil rights attorney Norman Siegel to sue for her freedom in New Jersey federal court later this week.
"The mandatory quarantine policy enacted by Govs. Christie and Cuomo creates serious and substantial civil liberties issues," Siegel, the former head of the New York Civil Liberties Union, told the Daily News. "The policy infringes on Kaci Hickox's constitutional liberty."
Siegel said he had spoken to Hickox several times by phone and was cleared to meet with her later Sunday. He was gathering affidavits from legal experts to support their case.
To hold someone against his or her will, the government would have to prove a compelling public health reason, he said.
"Her temperature's 98.6. They took her blood and it's negative for Ebola. So I don't think they meet the requirements to confine her. And she wants out," he said. "You can't have a policy based on fear. It's got to be based on medical fact."
Hickox's boyfriend, Theodore Wilbur, 39, called his companion's confinement "fear mongering."
"They are doing it during the election season to drum up support for hardline members of the political establishment," he told The News from Maine, where the couple lives.
Hickox was singled out for extra screening after deplaning Friday at Newark Liberty Airport.
Following hours of tests and questioning, Hickox says she was ordered into isolation in an unheated tent outside University Hospital in Newark. She was the first person treated under the new rules in place in Jersey, New York and Illinois to quarantine anyone, including health workers, who have had contact with Ebola victims in Africa for 21 days.
The bathroom inside the tent outside University Hospital in Newark, where Kaci Hickox is being quarantined.
The extreme measures were described as "draconian" by the National Institute of Health's infectious disease director, Dr. Anthony Fauci, who appeared Sunday on NBC'S "Meet the Press."
"We need to treat them, returning (health workers), with respect, and make sure that - they're really heroes," he said.
Hickox said chaos reigned as health-care workers scrambled to set up her accommodations and monitoring. The tent has a portable toilet, no shower and little else. She's stuck only with her iPhone and a small window.
No one has communicated to her the quarantine protocol, or what will become of her for the next several days, Hickox said.
"To put me in prison is just inhumane," she told CNN.
She spoke to family on Sunday morning.
"I don't really know what's happening to my child," her mother, Karen Hickox, told the Daily News from Texas. "I love her with all my heart and I want her to be safe."
sgoldstein@nydailynews.co
Comments
You got a treadmill machine, you got your computer. You can listen to any music you want.
Order a pizza and a six pack, have them set your treats down outside the tent door, give the pizza boy a minute to get well away, and you go outside and grab your supper.
Pop a Budweiser and eat a slice of pizza and watch "El Dorado" with John Wayne, you got it made.
God Bless these health care workers. They want to go the Hell Hole of Africa and help the suffering people.
But, we have to look after our own here in America.
We had a well-meaning doctor, who was infested with Ebola, ride subway trains and go bowling. He exposed hundreds of Americans to Ebola.
If a doctor can behave so selfishly, and stupidly, so can a nurse! A doc is supposed to be twice as smart as a nurse is.
You want to go to Africa and help the suffering people, you come back to America and you spend 21 days in your de-luxe quarantine tent. What is the problem?
This New Jersey quarantine tent makes me want to vote for Christie for President. I especially love how Christie, and, surprisingly, lib NY Governor Cuomo are sticking it to Obama by mandating quarantine.
And now, back in America, she must be returned to her upper East Side town home, or she will sue in Federal Court! Give me a break!
The fact that liberal democrats want to expose the rest of us to Ebola is highly illustrative of how dangerous these people are.
Yes, and by what means? Since he didn't have the brains to quarantine himself, obviously the government should have ordered quarantine before he exposed so many to Ebola.
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
I can't bring my dogs back into the country without a lengthy quarantine. What is it that these libtards do not understand about the rest of us not wanting to die.
Doing foolish things will only hasten the process.
Using your rationale, we should be quarantining you as well since you are exposed to your dogs.
How is imposing a quarantine longer than the incubation period foolish?
It does not matter where outside the country you go with pets they are quarantined for an extended period of time on your return. Anyone returning from a hot zone should be quarantined for 90 days at a secure location. Gitmo is a good spot and if the terrorists there get it, oh well....
They chose to risk their lives by going there. I did not.
Both from the perspective of closely monitoring those who have been exposed for their own health benefit, but also for the safety of everyone else, a quarantine makes perfect sense.
The NBC news crew was to be voluntarily quarantined, they wandered around, and if medical personnel cannot show better sense than to wander around after returning from Africa where they were treating infected patients, then someone else can show better sense.
I can't bring my dogs back into the country without a lengthy quarantine. What is it that these libtards do not understand about the rest of us not wanting to die.
yep
That tent looks very nice by the way.
If memory serves we (US) had immigration facilities in place during the late 1800's well into the 20th Century. Quarantine was an accepted component in the protection of our general population. It was neither considered cruel or unusual.
Funny isn't it that a facility in the NY harbor is a national monument rather than a working facility. I wonder if any of the brain trusts in government remember Ellis Island?
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
She has better living quarters than I did when I was elk hunting.
Got any pics?
It's not a Constitutional rights thing, it's not an appeasement strategy, it's not against current law to remove someone returning from a pandemic zone, where they have had DIRECT CONTACT with infected individuals, to some place secure (where they cannot infect others) until the suspected incubation time has passed.
As far as that whiny puke stuck in that "inhumane prison" in NJ; she's the product of so many years of indoctrination by ProgLibs that she actually thinks it's wrong to separate her from the (healthy) general population until such time as the incubation period of the suspected disease has passed, because she has the "right" to wander about, unfettered by her own medical sensibilities or Hippocratic Oath (First, do no harm...), and wants to get a monetary windfall for endangering the freaking planet (slight exaggeration, here)!
This is a very slippery slope. 1st off, the friggin' Governor should not have the power to strip away rights on ANY individual.
But, if a quarantine is deemed necessary, where does it end? A person, a town, a city??? Enforced by the military??
Ebola scares me for 2 reasons. One being the health implications, the second being the seeming test of the Governments' ability to divide and control.
"Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
She has better living quarters than I did when I was elk hunting.
Got any pics?
Stuck on my phone.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
I can't bring my dogs back into the country without a lengthy quarantine. What is it that these libtards do not understand about the rest of us not wanting to die.
Doing foolish things will only hasten the process.
Using your rationale, we should be quarantining you as well since you are exposed to your dogs.
How is imposing a quarantine longer than the incubation period foolish?
It does not matter where outside the country you go with pets they are quarantined for an extended period of time on your return. Anyone returning from a hot zone should be quarantined for 90 days at a secure location. Gitmo is a good spot and if the terrorists there get it, oh well....
They chose to risk their lives by going there. I did not.
Yep.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pentagon-isolates-soldiers-over-ebola-fears-nurse-freed-from-nj-quarantine/ar-BBbtzHs
Yet many of you won't get vaccinated. Let's hope magical thinking will save you.
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
I can't bring my dogs back into the country without a lengthy quarantine. What is it that these libtards do not understand about the rest of us not wanting to die.
Doing foolish things will only hasten the process.
Using your rationale, we should be quarantining you as well since you are exposed to your dogs.
How is imposing a quarantine longer than the incubation period foolish?
It does not matter where outside the country you go with pets they are quarantined for an extended period of time on your return. Anyone returning from a hot zone should be quarantined for 90 days at a secure location. Gitmo is a good spot and if the terrorists there get it, oh well....
They chose to risk their lives by going there. I did not.
How ?
Find the law authorizing Christie to do what he did :
http://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2013/title-26/section-26-4-2
Find the law authorizing Cuomo to do what he initially started to do:
http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/state-quarantine-and-isolation-statutes.aspx
Go ahead. Read the law. The law authorizes the quarantine of cases. It is not the 15th century anymore, gents. The facts are not what you think or assume they are, or what Alex Jones or Rush tell you they are.
Can the feds do it ?
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title42/html/USCODE-2011-title42-chap6A-subchapII-partG-sec264.htm
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title42/html/USCODE-2011-title42-chap6A-subchapII-partG.htm
Cases, not contacts.
Cases, not contacts.
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/9/11/pdfs/03-0339.pdf
Note the sections regarding chain of transmission.
Well, gee....lessee....maybe these guys might say something different...
This article was published on October 27, 2014, at NEJM.org.
Ebola and Quarantine
Jeffrey M. Drazen, M.D., Rupa Kanapathipillai, M.B., B.S., M.P.H., D.T.M.&H., Edward W. Campion, M.D., Eric J. Rubin, M.D., Ph.D., Scott M. Hammer, M.D., Stephen Morrissey, Ph.D., and Lindsey R. Baden, M.D.
October 27, 2014DOI: 10.1056/NEJMe1413139
The governors of a number of states, including New York and New Jersey, recently imposed 21-day quarantines on health care workers returning to the United States from regions of the world where they may have cared for patients with Ebola virus disease. We understand their motivation for this policy - to protect the citizens of their states from contracting this often-fatal illness.
This approach, however, is not scientifically based, is unfair and unwise, and will impede essential efforts to stop these awful outbreaks of Ebola disease at their source, which is the only satisfactory goal. The governors' action is like driving a carpet tack with a sledgehammer: it gets the job done but overall is more destructive than beneficial.
Health care professionals treating patients with this illness have learned that transmission arises from contact with * fluids of a person who is symptomatic - that is, has a fever, vomiting, diarrhea, and malaise. We have very strong reason to believe that transmission occurs when the viral load in * fluids is high, on the order of millions of virions per microliter. This recognition has led to the dictum that an asymptomatic person is not contagious; field experience in West Africa has shown that conclusion to be valid.
Therefore, an asymptomatic health care worker returning from treating patients with Ebola, even if he or she were infected, would not be contagious.
Furthermore, we now know that fever precedes the contagious stage, allowing workers who are unknowingly infected to identify themselves before they become a threat to their community. This understanding is based on more than clinical observation: the sensitive blood polymerase-chain-reaction (PCR) test for Ebola is often negative on the day when fever or other symptoms begin and only becomes reliably positive 2 to 3 days after symptom onset.
This point is supported by the fact that of the nurses caring for Thomas Eric Duncan, the man who died from Ebola virus disease in Texas in October, only those who cared for him at the end of his life, when the number of virions he was shedding was likely to be very high, became infected.
Notably, Duncan's family members who were living in the same household for days as he was at the start of his illness did not become infected.
A cynic would say that all these "facts" are derived from observation and that it pays to be 100% safe and to isolate anyone with a remote chance of carrying the virus. What harm can that approach do besides inconveniencing a few health care workers? We strongly disagree. Hundreds of years of experience show that to stop an epidemic of this type requires controlling it at its source. M?decins sans Fronti?res, the World Health Organization, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and many other organizations say we need tens of thousands of additional volunteers to control the epidemic.
We are far short of that goal, so the need for workers on the ground is great. These responsible, skilled health care workers who are risking their lives to help others are also helping by stemming the epidemic at its source. If we add barriers making it harder for volunteers to return to their community, we are hurting ourselves.
In the end, the calculus is simple, and we think the governors have it wrong. The health care workers returning from West Africa have been helping others and helping to end the epidemic that has killed thousands of people and scared millions.
At this point the public does need assurances that returning workers will have their temperatures and health status monitored according to a set, documented protocol. In the unlikely event that they become febrile, they can follow the example of Craig Spencer, the physician from New York who alerted public health officials of his fever. As we continue to learn more about this virus, its transmission, and associated illness, we must continue to revisit our approach to its control and treatment. We should be guided by the science and not the tremendous fear that this virus evokes.
We should be honoring, not quarantining, health care workers who put their lives at risk not only to save people suffering from Ebola virus disease in West Africa but also to help achieve source control, bringing the world closer to stopping the spread of this killer epidemic.
Disclosure forms provided by the authors are available with the full text of this article at NEJM.org.
People are watching to see how the politicians will handle the science. Some well, others not.
Health care providers are generally willing to follow the evidence, but not the political sell outs pushing for political gain.
Or a panicked public who think they still have a clue.
What will it hurt, if health care providers do not accept the lead of ignorant politicians and hysterical public ?
You must have people who believe they will not be led by a liar or fool in the matter, to work in the hospitals, do the contact tracing, to do what you cannot or will not.
Go ahead, and be stupid, and see who shows up for work.
Be even more stupid and say it doesn't matter.
The contradictions in this post are priceless![:D][:D][^]
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
If she was truly concerned about the health of the masses she would have stayed in quarantine as directed unlike that last few libtards that felt the need to fly around and go bowling and take the subway. Awesome.... Way to spread the wealth (of GERMS)....
Send the selfish * (and all others coming back from the HotZone) to stay with Barzilla for 60 days. Eventually the problem will take care of itself.
If she was truly concerned about the health of the masses she would have stayed in quarantine as directed unlike that last few libtards that felt the need to fly around and go bowling and take the subway. Awesome.... Way to spread the wealth (of GERMS)....
+1000 Capt. For the life of me I cannot understand why so many people who say we should not be the world's policeman, have no reservations about us being the world's Dr. Welby MD.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/state-quarantine-and-isolation-statutes.aspx
here is your laws
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by CaptFun
I can't bring my dogs back into the country without a lengthy quarantine. What is it that these libtards do not understand about the rest of us not wanting to die.
Doing foolish things will only hasten the process.
Using your rationale, we should be quarantining you as well since you are exposed to your dogs.
How is imposing a quarantine longer than the incubation period foolish?
It does not matter where outside the country you go with pets they are quarantined for an extended period of time on your return. Anyone returning from a hot zone should be quarantined for 90 days at a secure location. Gitmo is a good spot and if the terrorists there get it, oh well....
They chose to risk their lives by going there. I did not.
How ?
Find the law authorizing Christie to do what he did :
http://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2013/title-26/section-26-4-2
Find the law authorizing Cuomo to do what he initially started to do:
http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/state-quarantine-and-isolation-statutes.aspx
Go ahead. Read the law. The law authorizes the quarantine of cases. It is not the 15th century anymore, gents. The facts are not what you think or assume they are, or what Alex Jones or Rush tell you they are.
Can the feds do it ?
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title42/html/USCODE-2011-title42-chap6A-subchapII-partG-sec264.htm
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title42/html/USCODE-2011-title42-chap6A-subchapII-partG.htm
Cases, not contacts.
Cases, not contacts.
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/9/11/pdfs/03-0339.pdf
Note the sections regarding chain of transmission.
Well, gee....lessee....maybe these guys might say something different...
This article was published on October 27, 2014, at NEJM.org.
Ebola and Quarantine
Jeffrey M. Drazen, M.D., Rupa Kanapathipillai, M.B., B.S., M.P.H., D.T.M.&H., Edward W. Campion, M.D., Eric J. Rubin, M.D., Ph.D., Scott M. Hammer, M.D., Stephen Morrissey, Ph.D., and Lindsey R. Baden, M.D.
October 27, 2014DOI: 10.1056/NEJMe1413139
The governors of a number of states, including New York and New Jersey, recently imposed 21-day quarantines on health care workers returning to the United States from regions of the world where they may have cared for patients with Ebola virus disease. We understand their motivation for this policy - to protect the citizens of their states from contracting this often-fatal illness.
This approach, however, is not scientifically based, is unfair and unwise, and will impede essential efforts to stop these awful outbreaks of Ebola disease at their source, which is the only satisfactory goal. The governors' action is like driving a carpet tack with a sledgehammer: it gets the job done but overall is more destructive than beneficial.
Health care professionals treating patients with this illness have learned that transmission arises from contact with * fluids of a person who is symptomatic - that is, has a fever, vomiting, diarrhea, and malaise. We have very strong reason to believe that transmission occurs when the viral load in * fluids is high, on the order of millions of virions per microliter. This recognition has led to the dictum that an asymptomatic person is not contagious; field experience in West Africa has shown that conclusion to be valid.
Therefore, an asymptomatic health care worker returning from treating patients with Ebola, even if he or she were infected, would not be contagious.
Furthermore, we now know that fever precedes the contagious stage, allowing workers who are unknowingly infected to identify themselves before they become a threat to their community. This understanding is based on more than clinical observation: the sensitive blood polymerase-chain-reaction (PCR) test for Ebola is often negative on the day when fever or other symptoms begin and only becomes reliably positive 2 to 3 days after symptom onset.
This point is supported by the fact that of the nurses caring for Thomas Eric Duncan, the man who died from Ebola virus disease in Texas in October, only those who cared for him at the end of his life, when the number of virions he was shedding was likely to be very high, became infected.
Notably, Duncan's family members who were living in the same household for days as he was at the start of his illness did not become infected.
A cynic would say that all these "facts" are derived from observation and that it pays to be 100% safe and to isolate anyone with a remote chance of carrying the virus. What harm can that approach do besides inconveniencing a few health care workers? We strongly disagree. Hundreds of years of experience show that to stop an epidemic of this type requires controlling it at its source. M?decins sans Fronti?res, the World Health Organization, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and many other organizations say we need tens of thousands of additional volunteers to control the epidemic.
We are far short of that goal, so the need for workers on the ground is great. These responsible, skilled health care workers who are risking their lives to help others are also helping by stemming the epidemic at its source. If we add barriers making it harder for volunteers to return to their community, we are hurting ourselves.
In the end, the calculus is simple, and we think the governors have it wrong. The health care workers returning from West Africa have been helping others and helping to end the epidemic that has killed thousands of people and scared millions.
At this point the public does need assurances that returning workers will have their temperatures and health status monitored according to a set, documented protocol. In the unlikely event that they become febrile, they can follow the example of Craig Spencer, the physician from New York who alerted public health officials of his fever. As we continue to learn more about this virus, its transmission, and associated illness, we must continue to revisit our approach to its control and treatment. We should be guided by the science and not the tremendous fear that this virus evokes.
We should be honoring, not quarantining, health care workers who put their lives at risk not only to save people suffering from Ebola virus disease in West Africa but also to help achieve source control, bringing the world closer to stopping the spread of this killer epidemic.
Disclosure forms provided by the authors are available with the full text of this article at NEJM.org.
People are watching to see how the politicians will handle the science. Some well, others not.
Health care providers are generally willing to follow the evidence, but not the political sell outs pushing for political gain.
Or a panicked public who think they still have a clue.
What will it hurt, if health care providers do not accept the lead of ignorant politicians and hysterical public ?
You must have people who believe they will not be led by a liar or fool in the matter, to work in the hospitals, do the contact tracing, to do what you cannot or will not.
Go ahead, and be stupid, and see who shows up for work.
Be even more stupid and say it doesn't matter.
The contradictions in this post are priceless![:D][:D][^]
If you find them, identify them here.
Otherwise you join the others barking in the dark.
lol. I did. And now twice. Apparently, it is a forest for the trees issue you've contracted.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain