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22 caliber shortage could be solved over night

Waco WaltzWaco Waltz Member Posts: 10,821
edited January 2015 in Politics
I think if GB put a lock on all 22 cal sales the problem would end over night.


An Open Letter to 22LR Buyers and Seekers
MARCH 8 2014BY DAN CANNON
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Screen Shot 2014-03-08 at 1.59.29 PMHello, This letter is for you Mr. and Mrs. American looking to buy .22LR ammunition. Finally, it's also for you Mrs ammo reseller who makes daily trips to all of your area Wal Marts and sporting goods stores looking for 22LR at retail price. You get home and put it immediately for sale on GunBroker, {elsewhere} or at your local gun show at a 200-300% markup.
As I'm sure most people reading this already know, 22LR ammunition is harder to find at retail price than virgin unicorn blood right now. The popular marksmanship program, Appleseed, even has a revised course of fire now that requires fewer rounds of ammo due to the "22 shortage".
If you think the ammo companies are making less rimfire ammo right now, you're mistaken. A quick search of AmmoSeek.com shows dozens of websites with thousands, or even tens of thousands, of rounds in stock. LuckyGunner.com shows the same thing. All of those sites are getting and selling new stock daily.
However, instead of being less than $0.05 per round like it should be, the cheapest available is $0.13 per round + shipping, with many sites getting closer to $0.20/round.
I understand that supply and demand drive our nation's market prices, and I wouldn't have it any other way. However, what we are seeing with 22LR is artificial demand being created by a handful of ammo sellers looking to make a quick buck by capitalizing on gun owners' fears. Fears that these sellers are helping to create.


The "demand" is created when these sellers buy all of the 22LR at retail price from chain stores. These chain stores are the largest retailers of 22LR in the country. This creates the illusion that the ammo is scarce. When people think something is scarce, they feel they need to buy it even more so than normal. This is where the so called "demand" is coming from. Now, I do understand that there is a real demand increase due to market conditions that include tons of new gun owners in the last year as well as fear of future availability of ammo. However, we've already seen the centerfire ammo market more or less rebound in most areas of the country from the 2013 ammo panic, but the rimfire market seems to be getting worse. Why is this?
It's pretty simple actually. It's very economical for someone to walk into a department store and buy those three 550 round boxes of 22LR. It costs them less than $75 out of pocket. If they bring a friend or spouse along, they can probably clean out an ammo department's daily shipment, even despite purchase limits. It's much harder for your average joe off the street to do this with centerfire ammo. The retail cost is too high to purchase large amounts on a daily basis for most people. However, due to the low retail cost of rimfire, they can buy it all.
Then Johnny America comes along on Sunday morning with his two kids in tow to get some ammo for a range trip. "Huh, no 22. Must be some sort of shortage. I guess I better order some online. I know its expensive, but if this shortage continues I may not be able to purchase it for a while."
This behavior also forces legitimate, smaller gun shops and online retailers to jack their prices up. If they didn't, the resellers would simply clean them out and make a profit off of their good nature.
A group of people who have never met each other, who probably know nothing of the microeconomics principles at play, have created an unintended monopoly on 22LR, inflating the price of a commonly available commodity by controlling its availability to the general public on a national scale.
I hope others join me in pledging to purchase no more 22LR ammo at "panic prices". Retail priced ammo is out there if you look. I also hope resellers looking to make a few bucks will reconsider their purchases.

Comments

  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 12,673 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I quit buying 22 when the 5250 round cases topped $185 delivered. The only 22 we've bought the last few years has been some low noise ammo for the trap line.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 31,944 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have enough CCI standard velocity to get me through one more year of pistol competition. I have not bought any at the inflated prices. I do check Walmart stores hoping against hope to get some from them, have never found a single round at Walmarts in this area.

    I do not understand why people pay panic prices for plinking ammo, they just make matters worse. Competition does take a lot of ammo but practicing with my 45 is now cheaper than shooting my stock of un-replaceable 22 ammo.
  • burpfireburpfire Member Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have well over 100,000rds of 22 ammo, and I still buy it all the time. why? simple. the price you see now will seem cheap if another scare or panic hits! all it will take is another school shooting and the shelves will be bare! of course I still buy all calibers that I shoot. I tell people all the time to buy it now while you can. yes, it sucks to pay double what it was, but overnight it could quadruple in price. to those that think the shelves will ever be full again at low prices are delusional. I know quite a few people who instead of just buying a brick a year like they used to, now buy as much as they can. call me what you want, but the smart people see ahead and plan accordingly.
  • Sky SoldierSky Soldier Member Posts: 460
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by burpfire
    I have well over 100,000rds of 22 ammo, and I still buy it all the time. why? simple. the price you see now will seem cheap if another scare or panic hits! all it will take is another school shooting and the shelves will be bare! of course I still buy all calibers that I shoot. I tell people all the time to buy it now while you can. yes, it sucks to pay double what it was, but overnight it could quadruple in price. to those that think the shelves will ever be full again at low prices are delusional. I know quite a few people who instead of just buying a brick a year like they used to, now buy as much as they can. call me what you want, but the smart people see ahead and plan accordingly.


    The sky is falling!
    Run, Chicken Little, The sky is falling.

    SS
  • burpfireburpfire Member Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sky Soldier
    quote:Originally posted by burpfire
    I have well over 100,000rds of 22 ammo, and I still buy it all the time. why? simple. the price you see now will seem cheap if another scare or panic hits! all it will take is another school shooting and the shelves will be bare! of course I still buy all calibers that I shoot. I tell people all the time to buy it now while you can. yes, it sucks to pay double what it was, but overnight it could quadruple in price. to those that think the shelves will ever be full again at low prices are delusional. I know quite a few people who instead of just buying a brick a year like they used to, now buy as much as they can. call me what you want, but the smart people see ahead and plan accordingly.


    The sky is falling!
    Run, Chicken Little, The sky is falling.

    SS



    ah, yes, your one of those. the kind that stand around after it happens and says " what just happened!" im sure your also the type that complains how much it cost now, and all the hoarders and gougers out there. I wont even go into detail on how much money I made when the last panic started. its called capitalism. no different than buying low on gold or silver or the stock market and selling high. I will tell you this much, I made enough profit the last time, to buy myself an Anzio 20mm. how much did you make?
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 31,944 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by burpfire
    I have well over 100,000rds of 22 ammo, and I still buy it all the time. why? simple. the price you see now will seem cheap if another scare or panic hits! all it will take is another school shooting and the shelves will be bare! of course I still buy all calibers that I shoot. I tell people all the time to buy it now while you can. yes, it sucks to pay double what it was, but overnight it could quadruple in price. to those that think the shelves will ever be full again at low prices are delusional. I know quite a few people who instead of just buying a brick a year like they used to, now buy as much as they can. call me what you want, but the smart people see ahead and plan accordingly.


    Last time you made out very well, GOOD FOR YOU!

    Next time Karma may make you lose your butt for being a big part of the problem.

    God has a way of leveling the field and showing the "smart" people who is in charge.
  • burpfireburpfire Member Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    oh, I see. so you must think that places like walmart and other retailers sell their items for what they bought them for? what do you think this country was founded on and runs it? CAPITALISM! buying an item at a lower price and selling it for a profit!

    I guess all the people that bought gold at 200.00 an ounce and silver at 4.00 an ounce and made a killing when the prices went sky-high are going to get their karma also? give me a break! I am willing to bet that you and the others that whine about the 22 prices are the same people who don't ever stock up on anything, you just take it for granted it will be there when you want some. very foolish thinking on your part. I spose im a terrible person for selling alot of my transferables at over 1000% profit! you have it all wrong karma is when you have nothing because others had the foresight to buy items and make a lot of money on them.
  • Sky SoldierSky Soldier Member Posts: 460
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by burpfire
    quote:Originally posted by Sky Soldier
    quote:Originally posted by burpfire
    I have well over 100,000rds of 22 ammo, and I still buy it all the time. why? simple. the price you see now will seem cheap if another scare or panic hits! all it will take is another school shooting and the shelves will be bare! of course I still buy all calibers that I shoot. I tell people all the time to buy it now while you can. yes, it sucks to pay double what it was, but overnight it could quadruple in price. to those that think the shelves will ever be full again at low prices are delusional. I know quite a few people who instead of just buying a brick a year like they used to, now buy as much as they can. call me what you want, but the smart people see ahead and plan accordingly.


    The sky is falling!
    Run, Chicken Little, The sky is falling.

    SS



    ah, yes, your one of those. the kind that stand around after it happens and says " what just happened!" im sure your also the type that complains how much it cost now, and all the hoarders and gougers out there. I wont even go into detail on how much money I made when the last panic started. its called capitalism. no different than buying low on gold or silver or the stock market and selling high. I will tell you this much, I made enough profit the last time, to buy myself an Anzio 20mm. how much did you make?






    Wow, burpfire, my comment was meant to be humorous and I had no intention to be derisive but since you have labeled me as being "one of those", I feel it necessary to respond.
    I have more than enough .22 ammo to last me a couple of years even with 3 grandsons who regularly come to my house and can easily burn up a brick or two in an afternoon. I buy it when the price is right and don't go out of my way to play silly games.
    I don't complain about what the price is now because I reload everything else I have guns for and the boys can shoot 38's and 45's just as easily and I have an endless supply of those calibers.
    As far as "Capitalism" is concerned, you are more than welcome to be "one of those" and keep fueling the fire of ignorance and buying and selling at ridiculous prices but you can't argue the fact that you are feeding the fire. I'm happy for you that you are making lots of profit and have a good supply of ammo to last you after the next "school shooting" but I am just as saddened for the Dad who can't find a box of .22 ammo on the shelf at Walmart when he has an opportunity to take his son out to shoot his fathers 22.

    SS
  • burpfireburpfire Member Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sky Soldier
    quote:Originally posted by burpfire
    quote:Originally posted by Sky Soldier
    quote:Originally posted by burpfire
    I have well over 100,000rds of 22 ammo, and I still buy it all the time. why? simple. the price you see now will seem cheap if another scare or panic hits! all it will take is another school shooting and the shelves will be bare! of course I still buy all calibers that I shoot. I tell people all the time to buy it now while you can. yes, it sucks to pay double what it was, but overnight it could quadruple in price. to those that think the shelves will ever be full again at low prices are delusional. I know quite a few people who instead of just buying a brick a year like they used to, now buy as much as they can. call me what you want, but the smart people see ahead and plan accordingly.


    The sky is falling!
    Run, Chicken Little, The sky is falling.

    SS



    ah, yes, your one of those. the kind that stand around after it happens and says " what just happened!" im sure your also the type that complains how much it cost now, and all the hoarders and gougers out there. I wont even go into detail on how much money I made when the last panic started. its called capitalism. no different than buying low on gold or silver or the stock market and selling high. I will tell you this much, I made enough profit the last time, to buy myself an Anzio 20mm. how much did you make?






    Wow, burpfire, my comment was meant to be humorous and I had no intention to be derisive but since you have labeled me as being "one of those", I feel it necessary to respond.
    I have more than enough .22 ammo to last me a couple of years even with 3 grandsons who regularly come to my house and can easily burn up a brick or two in an afternoon. I buy it when the price is right and don't go out of my way to play silly games.
    I don't complain about what the price is now because I reload everything else I have guns for and the boys can shoot 38's and 45's just as easily and I have an endless supply of those calibers.
    As far as "Capitalism" is concerned, you are more than welcome to be "one of those" and keep fueling the fire of ignorance and buying and selling at ridiculous prices but you can't argue the fact that you are feeding the fire. I'm happy for you that you are making lots of profit and have a good supply of ammo to last you after the next "school shooting" but I am just as saddened for the Dad who can't find a box of .22 ammo on the shelf at Walmart when he has an opportunity to take his son out to shoot his fathers 22.

    SS




    Why feel sorry for someone who should have stocked up when it was cheap and plentful. Do you also feel sorry for the people who didnt buy machineguns when they were cheap and plentiful. The problem is that most complainers are cheap and expect to pay what they did 5 yrs ago. There is plenty of 22 ammo u just have to pay the going rate. Your delusional if you think ethe shelves will ever b full at what prices were.
  • tallcharlietallcharlie Member Posts: 673 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The two basic economic laws are the law of supply and the law of demand.

    They are immutable.

    There are no valid exceptions to these two laws.

    Remember the real estate boom/bubble? The current .22 ammo market is less sustainable than the real estate one because there is far less money involved (and almost no government interference).

    That is not to say that many people will not realize inflated profits, just as the real estate speculators did. But like the real estate speculators, some will be caught over-extended when the bubble bursts and will lose most or all of the money they made previously.

    So let the ammo panic run its course. The final results are inevitable.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member Posts: 62,897 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:However, instead of being less than $0.05 per round like it should be,
    What a comical statement!
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 31,944 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by burpfire
    oh, I see. so you must think that places like walmart and other retailers sell their items for what they bought them for? what do you think this country was founded on and runs it? CAPITALISM! buying an item at a lower price and selling it for a profit!

    I guess all the people that bought gold at 200.00 an ounce and silver at 4.00 an ounce and made a killing when the prices went sky-high are going to get their karma also? give me a break! I am willing to bet that you and the others that whine about the 22 prices are the same people who don't ever stock up on anything, you just take it for granted it will be there when you want some. very foolish thinking on your part. I spose im a terrible person for selling alot of my transferables at over 1000% profit! you have it all wrong karma is when you have nothing because others had the foresight to buy items and make a lot of money on them.


    Walmart, much to their credit, has not raised prices to take advantage of the shortage.

    You can sell for as much as the market will pay you for your items, it is no skin off of my nose how much people pay you for your wares. I simply pointed out that pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered.

    www.targetsportsusa.com has Federal auto match for about 300 bucks a case, freight paid. The shortage is starting to correct itself. Tick, Tick, Tick goes the clock for those that hoarded making the shortage worse as they try to drive up prices for unjust profit...tick, tick, tick.
  • burpfireburpfire Member Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The shortage is starting to correct itself. Tick, Tick, Tick goes the clock for those that hoarded making the shortage worse as they try to drive up prices for unjust profit...tick, tick, tick.


    that right there is a funny statement. UNJUST PROFIT! have you been reading up on Marxism? so, all the people like me that bought machineguns at ridiculously low prices and sold them, made unjust profits also? or people who bought gold at 200.00 ounce and sold it for 1700.00 ounce, I suppose that's unjust profit also? the market will set its own prices! nobody forces anyone to buy at any price. people set the prices. if they will pay 80.00 a brick for 22, that's what the market will bare. oops, I just explained capitalism to you again! why should or would anyone sell below what the market brings? in your world I guess people are just supposed to sell an item for what they paid or close to it. I can tell you must live in a socialist state, as you have let yourself become indoctrinated in the premise that everyone and everything should be equal and no-one has the right to make any more money than the next person. lets all hold hands and sing kumbaya and feel better!
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 31,944 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by burpfire
    The shortage is starting to correct itself. Tick, Tick, Tick goes the clock for those that hoarded making the shortage worse as they try to drive up prices for unjust profit...tick, tick, tick.


    that right there is a funny statement. UNJUST PROFIT! have you been reading up on Marxism? so, all the people like me that bought machineguns at ridiculously low prices and sold them, made unjust profits also? or people who bought gold at 200.00 ounce and sold it for 1700.00 ounce, I suppose that's unjust profit also? the market will set its own prices! nobody forces anyone to buy at any price. people set the prices. if they will pay 80.00 a brick for 22, that's what the market will bare. oops, I just explained capitalism to you again! why should or would anyone sell below what the market brings? in your world I guess people are just supposed to sell an item for what they paid or close to it. I can tell you must live in a socialist state, as you have let yourself become indoctrinated in the premise that everyone and everything should be equal and no-one has the right to make any more money than the next person. lets all hold hands and sing kumbaya and feel better!


    The Member in good standing doth protest too much, methinks.

    I will reiterate "You can sell for as much as the market will pay you for your items, it is no skin off of my nose how much people pay you for your wares."
  • Sky SoldierSky Soldier Member Posts: 460
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:However, instead of being less than $0.05 per round like it should be,
    What a comical statement!


    I don't see anything comical about that statement. The Walmart local to me regularly has 100 round boxes for $3.49. They don't last long but they're there and you can get some if you need them.
    I guess that's mostly because we're fair minded "workin' folk" and not Capitolists.

    SS
  • 4406v4406v Member Posts: 317 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have bought a little more than I need at retail prices when I can find it.

    The extra is for anyone I know with kids that want to shoot. It is free to them and IF they insist on paying it's the price on the box!!!
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,402
    edited November -1
    I used to think a brick was a lot. Now I have to admit I have around ten but those are for my use not for resale. I remember the first ammo panic when Obama was elected. That ended & things went back to normal. Now it has happened again & is lasting longer. It may well be that 5 cents a round is the new normal but I believe the panic buying will end UNLESS Billery is elected.
    Sill I hope burpfire gets burned.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member Posts: 62,897 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sky Soldier
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:However, instead of being less than $0.05 per round like it should be,
    What a comical statement!


    I don't see anything comical about that statement. The Walmart local to me regularly has 100 round boxes for $3.49. They don't last long but they're there and you can get some if you need them.
    I guess that's mostly because we're fair minded "workin' folk" and not Capitolists.

    SS
    it's comical to suggest what something SHOULD sell for in a free market.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • burpfireburpfire Member Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by gruntled
    I used to think a brick was a lot. Now I have to admit I have around ten but those are for my use not for resale. I remember the first ammo panic when Obama was elected. That ended & things went back to normal. Now it has happened again & is lasting longer. It may well be that 5 cents a round is the new normal but I believe the panic buying will end UNLESS Billery is elected.
    Sill I hope burpfire gets burned.


    get burned? how can I? the price of ammo is only going to keep going up! do you really think 200 bricks of 22 ammo is going to break me? I can sit on it forever, and it wont bother me. when the next panic comes, " and it will " I will be selling bricks for 90.00 again. I still buy bricks right now. never pay more than 40.00, but I will double my money, as many people wont buy now because they think the price is too high. one big shooting and these current prices will seem cheap! I consider ammo as a commodity, and buy as much of all calibers as I can. if you want to sit back and wait, that's up to you,
    but quit crying about prices. a lot of people get rich by looking ahead, and buying things such as precious metals, or stocks, betting they are going to go up,no different than me betting ammo is going to jump.
  • eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,215
    edited November -1
    i get up at 4:30-5:00 am just about every morning and go see a few friends for coffee and drive right by a walmart at around 8:00 am and i stop and see what ammo,s there and if there is any ammo i want including .22rf-.22mag i buy what they will sale me. i don,t think the prices they charge will ever be lower,three bulk packs of winchester 555 rounds for 27.88 a pack or 2.54 a box (1-04-15 they had 40 bulk packs).so if you think the price will be lower next year and karma will get me, you must be smoking some thing. and if you think if GB stopped all rimfire ammo sales it would amount to any thing, you just lit some thing up again. T.S. uncle albert,one of the i don,t give a crap crowd.
  • Dillon444Dillon444 Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I buy 22 WMR on GunBroker cheaper than in the reail stores. I don't know that the people selling are makin a huge profit.
  • wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Must be a regional thing. In my area of Washington state finding 22lr for sale is like trying to find an honest politician...near impossible. What little is available is way overpriced, anywhere from $70-$120 a brick for stuff that used to sell for $15-$18. Of course it sits unsold. Most stores simply aren't getting any to sell.

    The Wal-Mart hasn't had any for months, the local BiMart is even worse off as they haven't had any for over a year. They have a little 17HMR but it's not a popular caliber in this neck of the woods. The Cabelas in Idaho rarely has any and when they do it's overpriced and there was a 2 box limit. Brownell's rarely has any and Midway usually only has the pricey stuff in stock (Eley, RWS, Lapua, etc) and of course there is the customary 2 box limit. One gun store had a little but would only sell it if a gun was purchased.

    I no longer subscribe to the notion that hoarders are responsible and we're still in panic buying mode. It simply isn't hitting the shelves around here.
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,402
    edited November -1
    I was at a local gun store a couple of days ago & they had a fairly good pile of .22 LRs. They had a price posted of something over $22.
    I said give me a brick of those & then they informed me that that was the price per BOX of 50. I don't care how fancy they are I have never heard of a price like that for .22s.
    They were supposed to be some kind of target rounds made by Federal.
    Is there any such thing?
  • eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,215
    edited November -1
    the walmart i stop at does not get .22 every day, but just about two -three times a week and has rifle and shotgun ammo in stock. according to T.S. uncle albert,one of the i don,t give a crap crowd.
  • wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by gruntled
    I was at a local gun store a couple of days ago & they had a fairly good pile of .22 LRs. They had a price posted of something over $22.
    I said give me a brick of those & then they informed me that that was the price per BOX of 50. I don't care how fancy they are I have never heard of a price like that for .22s.
    They were supposed to be some kind of target rounds made by Federal.
    Is there any such thing?



    Not at that price.
  • moonshinemoonshine Member Posts: 8,471
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by burpfire
    quote:Originally posted by gruntled
    I used to think a brick was a lot. Now I have to admit I have around ten but those are for my use not for resale. I remember the first ammo panic when Obama was elected. That ended & things went back to normal. Now it has happened again & is lasting longer. It may well be that 5 cents a round is the new normal but I believe the panic buying will end UNLESS Billery is elected.
    Sill I hope burpfire gets burned.


    get burned? how can I? the price of ammo is only going to keep going up! do you really think 200 bricks of 22 ammo is going to break me? I can sit on it forever, and it wont bother me. when the next panic comes, " and it will " I will be selling bricks for 90.00 again. I still buy bricks right now. never pay more than 40.00, but I will double my money, as many people wont buy now because they think the price is too high. one big shooting and these current prices will seem cheap! I consider ammo as a commodity, and buy as much of all calibers as I can. if you want to sit back and wait, that's up to you,
    but quit crying about prices. a lot of people get rich by looking ahead, and buying things such as precious metals, or stocks, betting they are going to go up,no different than me betting ammo is going to jump.



    Wasn't it Jesus that thru the money lenders out of the temple.
  • eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,215
    edited November -1
    yes, but he didn,t shoot a .22. according to T.S. uncle albert,one of the i don,t give a crap crowd.
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