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Pope Blames Allied Forces in The Holocaust ?

serfserf Member Posts: 9,217 ✭✭✭✭
edited July 2015 in Politics
Pope Francis blames Allied Forces for not bombing railroad lines to concentration camps in WWII! Looks like he is running for office in The United Nations. [:D]

serf

http://www.timesofisrael.com/pope-world-powers-did-nothing-as-jews-were-taken-to-auschwitz/

Pope Francis on Sunday denounced what he called the "great powers" of the world for failing to act when there was intelligence indicating Jews, Christians, samesexuals and others were being transported to death camps in Europe during World War II.
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Comments

  • TooBigTooBig Member Posts: 28,560 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have to wonder what he has been smoking
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here we go again... THE POPE IS A RELIGIOUS LEADER . Religious might mean Religion. You start slamming the Leader of my Church don't expect any less coming back.
  • serfserf Member Posts: 9,217 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    Here we go again... THE POPE IS A RELIGIOUS LEADER . Religious might mean Religion. You start slamming the Leader of my Church don't expect any less coming back.


    Then please ask yourself what was The rat line about in WWII? Religion? Nope Power and influence!

    serf


    http://discardedlies.com/entry/?4044
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    First heard that argument in the early 1970's. Don't believe it was new then.

    It is revisionist to claim the Allied leadership had a grasp of the extent of what was going on. They knew some of it, but by no means the full scope of the horror. For them to have diverted precious war resources on the information they had to non-war related targets would have been foolhardy. It would have weakened the allied position and allowed the enemy more time. In turn leading to more death.

    The Allies bombed the rail lines and railroad infrastructure constantly. Anywhere it would hurt the enemy war effort, they bombed all they could. Still the railroads got repaired, trains put back into operation, repair facilities rebuilt. Sometimes overnight.

    It weren't no picnic. It was not easy. Until the end was truly in sight, it was by no means certain we would win.

    No doubt the Pope is a real smart guy, but sometimes people have a blind spot or two. I'd say this, with all his good positive qualities, is one of his.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    Here we go again... THE POPE IS A RELIGIOUS LEADER . Religious might mean Religion. You start slamming the Leader of my Church don't expect any less coming back.


    Then please ask yourself what was The rat line about in WWII? Religion? Nope Power and influence!

    serf


    http://discardedlies.com/entry/?4044



    What is wrong with you? You cannot read the religion in that posting? How Many religions are mentioned?
  • serfserf Member Posts: 9,217 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    Here we go again... THE POPE IS A RELIGIOUS LEADER . Religious might mean Religion. You start slamming the Leader of my Church don't expect any less coming back.


    Then please ask yourself what was The rat line about in WWII? Religion? Nope Power and influence!

    serf


    http://discardedlies.com/entry/?4044



    What is wrong with you? You cannot read the religion in that posting? How Many religions are mentioned?



    If the shoe fits then religion does not matter. The Pope should clean his own house before condemning Free Democracies Bleeding their blood to eradicate The Holocaust with The Nazi's.

    serf
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    Here we go again... THE POPE IS A RELIGIOUS LEADER . Religious might mean Religion. You start slamming the Leader of my Church don't expect any less coming back.


    Then please ask yourself what was The rat line about in WWII? Religion? Nope Power and influence!

    serf


    http://discardedlies.com/entry/?4044



    What is wrong with you? You cannot read the religion in that posting? How Many religions are mentioned?



    If the shoe fits then religion does not matter. The Pope should clean his own house before condemning Free Democracies Bleeding their blood to eradicate The Holocaust with The Nazi's.

    serf


    Some days your "Crazy" does seem worse than others. You ought to get some help for that. Before it sours you stomach.
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,724 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    woulda...shoulda...coulda....about 70 years to LATE....he coulda be speaking german from the papal perch if it were not for the ALLIED effort
  • serfserf Member Posts: 9,217 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    Here we go again... THE POPE IS A RELIGIOUS LEADER . Religious might mean Religion. You start slamming the Leader of my Church don't expect any less coming back.


    Then please ask yourself what was The rat line about in WWII? Religion? Nope Power and influence!

    serf


    http://discardedlies.com/entry/?4044



    What is wrong with you? You cannot read the religion in that posting? How Many religions are mentioned?



    If the shoe fits then religion does not matter. The Pope should clean his own house before condemning Free Democracies Bleeding their blood to eradicate The Holocaust with The Nazi's.

    serf


    Some days your "Crazy" does seem worse than others. You ought to get some help for that. Before it sours you stomach.




    Stick to the facts. Personal attacks are not effective debating. There is plenty of blame to go around for the persecution of The Jewish faith in WWII.

    Just because The Vatican is religious does not mean that it could not turn a blind eye back then too!

    serf
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,588 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, Auschwitz opened (well inside Poland) in 1940.

    The US was not in the war in 1940. Gee, what else was going on in 1940? The Blitz, and Dunkirk. The Brits were hanging on by teeth and toenails, and rounding up shotguns to give the Home Guard to repel the invaders they expected any day.

    Don't think they were up to bombing a hell of a lot of targets well inside Europe just then.
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    ...

    Stick to the facts. Personal attacks are not effective debating. There is plenty of blame to go around for the persecution of The Jewish faith in WWII.

    Just because The Vatican is religious does not mean that it could not turn a blind eye back then too!

    serf




    I did stick to the facts. Some days your "Crazy" is a bit over the top, down across the valley and near to topping the far ridge.

    It just is. Not my fault, I didn't do it.
  • serfserf Member Posts: 9,217 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    ...

    Stick to the facts. Personal attacks are not effective debating. There is plenty of blame to go around for the persecution of The Jewish faith in WWII.

    Just because The Vatican is religious does not mean that it could not turn a blind eye back then too!

    serf




    I did stick to the facts. Some days your "Crazy" is a bit over the top, down across the valley and near to topping the far ridge.

    It just is. Not my fault, I didn't do it.




    Your descriptions used here is unfounded,just is how dumb you are when attacking me personally. You should be sanction.

    serf
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,815 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe


    Some days your "Crazy" does seem worse than others. You ought to get some help for that. Before it sours you stomach.




    That got a chuckle.[8D]
  • 45forme45forme Member Posts: 948 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If I recall correctly the Catholic church was very reluctant to condemn the Nazi's, and could be accused of tacitly approving of the third reich. The pope has plenty of poop in his own closet to clean before pointing fingers our way.

    There was some intelligence about the holocaust at the time, but what they were hearing sounded crazy and was thought to be untrue. The extent was not realized at the time.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    Here we go again... THE POPE IS A RELIGIOUS LEADER . Religious might mean Religion. You start slamming the Leader of my Church don't expect any less coming back.


    Then please ask yourself what was The rat line about in WWII? Religion? Nope Power and influence!

    serf


    http://discardedlies.com/entry/?4044



    What is wrong with you? You cannot read the religion in that posting? How Many religions are mentioned?



    If the shoe fits then religion does not matter. The Pope should clean his own house before condemning Free Democracies Bleeding their blood to eradicate The Holocaust with The Nazi's.

    serf



    You must be out in left field. No religious threads on this forum.
  • nordnord Member Posts: 6,106
    edited November -1
    The true extent of the Holocaust remained unknown until the close of hostilities, however the Allies were aware of it to a great extent without question. The problem faced by the Allies was at least twofold. Bomb the lines leading to the camps and innocent lives were sure to be lost. Further, the trains would still have arrived and the Nazis would still have murdered their prisoners. Probably some merely dying in the railcars. Either way there was no real advantage to the Allied cause nor to those who were prisoners.

    It was decided that bombing would be of better use against the German population and against production and transportation facilities. The reasoning being that this would bring the war to the close more quickly and our assets would be better used.

    I believe that history probably falls on the side of the Allied decision.
  • Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,254 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nord
    The true extent of the Holocaust remained unknown until the close of hostilities, however the Allies were aware of it to a great extent without question. The problem faced by the Allies was at least twofold. Bomb the lines leading to the camps and innocent lives were sure to be lost. Further, the trains would still have arrived and the Nazis would still have murdered their prisoners. Probably some merely dying in the railcars. Either way there was no real advantage to the Allied cause nor to those who were prisoners.

    It was decided that bombing would be of better use against the German population and against production and transportation facilities. The reasoning being that this would bring the war to the close more quickly and our assets would be better used.

    I believe that history probably falls on the side of the Allied decision.



    +1
    RLTW

  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nord
    The true extent of the Holocaust remained unknown until the close of hostilities, however the Allies were aware of it to a great extent without question. The problem faced by the Allies was at least twofold. Bomb the lines leading to the camps and innocent lives were sure to be lost. Further, the trains would still have arrived and the Nazis would still have murdered their prisoners. Probably some merely dying in the railcars. Either way there was no real advantage to the Allied cause nor to those who were prisoners.

    It was decided that bombing would be of better use against the German population and against production and transportation facilities. The reasoning being that this would bring the war to the close more quickly and our assets would be better used.

    I believe that history probably falls on the side of the Allied decision.




    Yes, agree entirely, well said.
  • pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 45forme
    If I recall correctly the Catholic church was very reluctant to condemn the Nazi's, and could be accused of tacitly approving of the third reich. The pope has plenty of poop in his own closet to clean before pointing fingers our way.

    There was some intelligence about the holocaust at the time, but what they were hearing sounded crazy and was thought to be untrue. The extent was not realized at the time.
    The Vatican is in Rome...Rome is in Italy....Italy was part of The "AXIS" powers...so , don't you think Pope Pius walked a tight rope until Mussolini was out of power?...The Church did what it thought was best in a bad situation.....so did Roosevelt when he interred the Japanese Americans during WW2...Remember Jesus was a Jew...
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pwillie
    quote:Originally posted by 45forme
    If I recall correctly the Catholic church was very reluctant to condemn the Nazi's, and could be accused of tacitly approving of the third reich. The pope has plenty of poop in his own closet to clean before pointing fingers our way.

    There was some intelligence about the holocaust at the time, but what they were hearing sounded crazy and was thought to be untrue. The extent was not realized at the time.
    The Vatican is in Rome...Rome is in Italy....Italy was part of The "AXIS" powers...so , don't you think Pope Pius walked a tight rope until Mussolini was out of power?...The Church did what it thought was best in a bad situation.....so did Roosevelt when he interred the Japanese Americans during WW2...Remember Jesus was a Jew...


    Yup. Along with his wife and kids. Nice folks too.
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,041 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Pope is cherry-picking his history.

    I believe I remember some pictures of card carrying Luger wielding Catholic personal at the camps. Why didn't we hear from them?

    How can you slice the pie of munitions manufacture's as to not be Christians in one statement, and then criticize the Allies for not bombing a part of the Nazi war machine that had no part of shorting the war.

    Sounds like the Pope didn't learn the facts about WW2. He needs to clean his own house and stay out of politics. He comes off as an idiot, which I'm sure he is not.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • Dads3040Dads3040 Member Posts: 13,552 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nord
    The true extent of the Holocaust remained unknown until the close of hostilities, however the Allies were aware of it to a great extent without question. The problem faced by the Allies was at least twofold. Bomb the lines leading to the camps and innocent lives were sure to be lost. Further, the trains would still have arrived and the Nazis would still have murdered their prisoners. Probably some merely dying in the railcars. Either way there was no real advantage to the Allied cause nor to those who were prisoners.

    It was decided that bombing would be of better use against the German population and against production and transportation facilities. The reasoning being that this would bring the war to the close more quickly and our assets would be better used.

    I believe that history probably falls on the side of the Allied decision.


    Yep. Hindsight is always more clear.

    Given this pope's background, his position here isn't all that surprising. Disappointing maybe, but not surprising.
  • 1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    and what was the catholic churches stance when the united states turned around the ship saintlouis full of jews due to the current refugee status ?


    they really fought hard didn't they
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    While we are talking WWII lets talk about the Japs and the new toyota's Bataan March. Them sorry Japs killed a lot of men. The clergy didn't stop that. How how about all them Japs in those Camps in the USA. They should have shot every one. Or should they. Were they Americans living here or spies? All Clergy of all religions fault. I tell you it is those unethical clergy who has ruined this country.
  • eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,215
    edited November -1
    i watched several programs about the rat line and the catholic church was said to be involved in it.i never understood why the jews didn,t fight back more, in the warsaw getto they did and i think the jews revolted in the death camp at sobibrok. and over 50,000 US airmen died in the air war over germany. my myopic.
  • wpagewpage Member Posts: 10,204 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The pope should know monday morning quarterbacking is BS...
  • WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 16,814 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    At the risk of misrepresenting history, I believe the Catholic Church signed a treaty with the Nazi party prior to WW2 kicking off which guaranteed CTHOLICS would not be persecuted in Germany.

    I may not have it exactly right, but I'm close.
  • pwilliepwillie Member Posts: 20,253 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by eastbank
    i watched several programs about the rat line and the catholic church was said to be involved in it.i never understood why the jews didn,t fight back more, in the warsaw getto they did and i think the jews revolted in the death camp at sobibrok. and over 50,000 US airmen died in the air war over germany. my myopic.
    The Jewish uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto ,is depicted in a great book by Leon Uris.... "Mila 18"
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,664 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    He may be the right hand fancy hatted dude to God but that don't mean he knows his * from a hill of beans.
  • wifetrainedwifetrained Member Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The more people that ignore this nonsense the faster he'll shut up.
  • nordnord Member Posts: 6,106
    edited November -1
    Actually I don't think ignoring will change him. Fact is, I don't think he'll change under any circumstances. For this I give the man credit even though I disagree with his politics and many of the positions (or lack thereof) of his church.

    That said, I do know how to get his attention and that of the church. Very simple actually... Empty pews equate to declining donations. The church runs on money and even though it holds vast assets, declining revenue is one thing that will get attention.
  • serfserf Member Posts: 9,217 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nord
    Actually I don't think ignoring will change him. Fact is, I don't think he'll change under any circumstances. For this I give the man credit even though I disagree with his politics and many of the positions (or lack thereof) of his church.

    That said, I do know how to get his attention and that of the church. Very simple actually... Empty pews equate to declining donations. The church runs on money and even though it holds vast assets, declining revenue is one thing that will get attention.


    If they lose enough people then The Catholics will lose their status as being tax exempt under US Tax Laws and you can bet that trans-humanism along with secular humanism will join hands to make it so!

    The Pope is making these statements for his grand entrance to Congress and The United Nations this September and when The NWO comes into being the Catholics will be betrayed by them soon after.

    serf
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,724 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    de pope is getting to as big an INGRATE as De Gaulle was as soon as the allies liberated his sorry *
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    quote:Originally posted by nord
    Actually I don't think ignoring will change him. Fact is, I don't think he'll change under any circumstances. For this I give the man credit even though I disagree with his politics and many of the positions (or lack thereof) of his church.

    That said, I do know how to get his attention and that of the church. Very simple actually... Empty pews equate to declining donations. The church runs on money and even though it holds vast assets, declining revenue is one thing that will get attention.


    If they lose enough people then The Catholics will lose their status as being tax exempt under US Tax Laws and you can bet that trans-humanism along with secular humanism will join hands to make it so!

    The Pope is making these statements for his grand entrance to Congress and The United Nations this September and when The NWO comes into being the Catholics will be betrayed by them soon after.

    serf





    That IS the funniest statement I have ever read on the Message Board. Your bitterness toward Catholics shows very well. However it is a good laugh.
  • nordnord Member Posts: 6,106
    edited November -1
    Select,

    If you refer to me, then you're wrong. While I may be ambivalent toward the Catholic Church, I don't hate it. I merely found from my earliest memory that Christianity was one thing and Catholicism another. This resulting from many long hours, days, and years of a mother attempting to mold me into something I'm not.

    Nowhere did I say anything untrue about the Catholic Church and no other church that I'm aware of claims nation status. The Catholic Church, otherwise, is much like many religious organizations. It has a business side and a spiritual side. Unfortunately, when the temporal and spiritual meet, the outcome is quite often decided in dollars. This is very little different than with any other human enterprise.

    My problem with Benedict is that he's supposed to be God's Vicar on Earth which is to translate as leader and enforcer of Catholic Doctrine. Benedict seems more of a political figure fixated on the Vatican State. I sincerely admire the man for holding to his beliefs even though I almost totally disagree with his politics. My point being that wearing the trappings of the church while expounding on political matters seems inappropriate at the very least to me. Your view may be different.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nord
    Select,

    If you refer to me, then you're wrong. While I may be ambivalent toward the Catholic Church, I don't hate it. I merely found from my earliest memory that Christianity was one thing and Catholicism another. This resulting from many long hours, days, and years of a mother attempting to mold me into something I'm not.

    Nowhere did I say anything untrue about the Catholic Church and no other church that I'm aware of claims nation status. The Catholic Church, otherwise, is much like many religious organizations. It has a business side and a spiritual side. Unfortunately, when the temporal and spiritual meet, the outcome is quite often decided in dollars. This is very little different than with any other human enterprise.

    My problem with Benedict is that he's supposed to be God's Vicar on Earth which is to translate as leader and enforcer of Catholic Doctrine. Benedict seems more of a political figure fixated on the Vatican State. I sincerely admire the man for holding to his beliefs even though I almost totally disagree with his politics. My point being that wearing the trappings of the church while expounding on political matters seems inappropriate at the very least to me. Your view may be different.


    Not you
  • Waco WaltzWaco Waltz Member Posts: 10,828 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's not the church or any other pope it's this current dope opening his mouth and stupid things coming out of it. He really needs to shut up and mind his own church business.
  • serfserf Member Posts: 9,217 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    quote:Originally posted by serf
    quote:Originally posted by nord
    Actually I don't think ignoring will change him. Fact is, I don't think he'll change under any circumstances. For this I give the man credit even though I disagree with his politics and many of the positions (or lack thereof) of his church.

    That said, I do know how to get his attention and that of the church. Very simple actually... Empty pews equate to declining donations. The church runs on money and even though it holds vast assets, declining revenue is one thing that will get attention.


    If they lose enough people then The Catholics will lose their status as being tax exempt under US Tax Laws and you can bet that trans-humanism along with secular humanism will join hands to make it so!

    The Pope is making these statements for his grand entrance to Congress and The United Nations this September and when The NWO comes into being the Catholics will be betrayed by them soon after.

    serf





    That IS the funniest statement I have ever read on the Message Board. Your bitterness toward Catholics shows very well. However it is a good laugh.


    Well see who gets the last laugh! Take your blinders off!

    serf

    http://churchesandtaxes.procon.org/

    American taxpayers are supporting the extravagant lifestyles of wealthy pastors, whose lavish "megachurches" accumulate millions of tax-free dollars every year. US Senator Chuck Grassley, MA (R-IA) launched an investigation into these groups in Nov. 2007 after receiving complaints of church revenue being used to buy pastors private jets, Rolls Royce cars, multimillion-dollar homes, trips to Hawaii and Fiji, and in one case, a $23,000, marble-topped chest of drawers installed in the 150,000 square foot headquarters of Joyce Meyer Ministries in Fenton, Missouri. [36]
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not in your lifetime and your childrens [:D][:D]
  • Waco WaltzWaco Waltz Member Posts: 10,828 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    How is it anti catholic to point out this pope is a Communist dirt bag?
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