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14.5% Flat Tax - Any Takers?
Don McManus
Member Posts: 23,489 ✭✭✭✭
http://www.wsj.com/articles/blow-up-the-tax-code-and-start-over-1434582592
14.5% Flat Tax, individual and corporate.
No Payroll Tax on individuals.
Not Revenue Neutral, depends upon growth to balance the budget.
All deductions except Home Mortgage and Charitable Giving eliminated.
(I disagree with this one. Renters should not be subsidizing home owners, and I see no need for anyone to subsidize another's choice of charities.)
Normal business expense deductions will continue, plus making permanent the ability to expense 100% of equipment purchases during the year of the purchase.
Earned Income Tax Credit is continued. This is a problem when payroll taxes are eliminated.
An interesting and seemingly serious proposal.
IMO, the flat rate should be revenue neutral on year one and a plan to reduce the debt should be in place before we talk about reducing Federal Revenue by $ 2 trillion over 10 years.
I know my son and probably my grandsons would appreciate a serious effort at reducing the debt.
Any thoughts?
14.5% Flat Tax, individual and corporate.
No Payroll Tax on individuals.
Not Revenue Neutral, depends upon growth to balance the budget.
All deductions except Home Mortgage and Charitable Giving eliminated.
(I disagree with this one. Renters should not be subsidizing home owners, and I see no need for anyone to subsidize another's choice of charities.)
Normal business expense deductions will continue, plus making permanent the ability to expense 100% of equipment purchases during the year of the purchase.
Earned Income Tax Credit is continued. This is a problem when payroll taxes are eliminated.
An interesting and seemingly serious proposal.
IMO, the flat rate should be revenue neutral on year one and a plan to reduce the debt should be in place before we talk about reducing Federal Revenue by $ 2 trillion over 10 years.
I know my son and probably my grandsons would appreciate a serious effort at reducing the debt.
Any thoughts?
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
Brad Steele
Brad Steele
Comments
The US tax code and the IRS is the way it is because congress likes it that way, there is no other reason.
How much could we lower our taxes if no money went overseas?
www.notaxdollarstoisrael.com
How much could we lower our taxes if no money went overseas?
It is trivial compared to almost everything else.
Why do you ask?
Brad Steele
You lost me at the deductions and credits.
I agree. If you leave the door open for personal deduction, it will only open further and before long we will be back to where we are.
Business deductions, obviously have to remain. Businesses need to be taxed upon net income, and the tax effect of equipment / real estate purchases will always be politicized.
I believe that conceptually, Paul is off to a reasonable start. He is treading a path that may have enough acceptance to be discussed. IMO, however, we cannot afford to start with a negative revenue system. Our national debt is simply too great to ignore.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
You lost me at the deductions and credits.
I agree. If you leave the door open for personal deduction, it will only open further and before long we will be back to where we are.
Business deductions, obviously have to remain. Businesses need to be taxed upon net income, and the tax effect of equipment / real estate purchases will always be politicized.
I believe that conceptually, Paul is off to a reasonable start. He is treading a path that may have enough acceptance to be discussed. IMO, however, we cannot afford to start with a negative revenue system. Our national debt is simply too great to ignore.
How about this Don;
17% flat tax across the board
All payroll taxes eliminated
All deductions eliminated, no exceptions
EIC discontinued
Businesses can expense 100% equipment purchase during the year of
purchase.
Eliminate Capital gains and estate taxes.
Coupled with "ACTUALLY" reducing spending by 5% annually and gradually increasing to 10% plus weeding out fraud, waste, abuse, and duplication etc.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
You lost me at the deductions and credits.
I agree. If you leave the door open for personal deduction, it will only open further and before long we will be back to where we are.
Business deductions, obviously have to remain. Businesses need to be taxed upon net income, and the tax effect of equipment / real estate purchases will always be politicized.
I believe that conceptually, Paul is off to a reasonable start. He is treading a path that may have enough acceptance to be discussed. IMO, however, we cannot afford to start with a negative revenue system. Our national debt is simply too great to ignore.
How about this Don;
17% flat tax across the board
All payroll taxes eliminated
All deductions eliminated, no exceptions
EIC discontinued
Businesses can expense 100% equipment purchase during the year of
purchase.
Eliminate Capital gains and estate taxes.
Coupled with "ACTUALLY" reducing spending by 5% annually and gradually increasing to 10% plus weeding out fraud, waste, abuse, and duplication etc.
I would agree with everything but the elimination of capital gains taxes. IMO, income is income is income. I have a problem with taxing the result of the investment of blood sweat and tears and not taxing the result of investment.
Many make the argument that capital gains taxing is double taxation, but I find this to be a self-serving argument. The ROI is new money to the investor, and is no different than a paycheck for the investment of time. I have a hard time accepting that for some reason the investing of money is privileged when compared with the investment of time and labor.
Also, I don't know what the number would be. If 17% is revenue neutral, I'm OK with it. If 14.5% is 200 billion a year shy, however, I would think that 17% is a little high.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by wifetrained
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
You lost me at the deductions and credits.
I agree. If you leave the door open for personal deduction, it will only open further and before long we will be back to where we are.
Business deductions, obviously have to remain. Businesses need to be taxed upon net income, and the tax effect of equipment / real estate purchases will always be politicized.
I believe that conceptually, Paul is off to a reasonable start. He is treading a path that may have enough acceptance to be discussed. IMO, however, we cannot afford to start with a negative revenue system. Our national debt is simply too great to ignore.
How about this Don;
17% flat tax across the board
All payroll taxes eliminated
All deductions eliminated, no exceptions
EIC discontinued
Businesses can expense 100% equipment purchase during the year of
purchase.
Eliminate Capital gains and estate taxes.
Coupled with "ACTUALLY" reducing spending by 5% annually and gradually increasing to 10% plus weeding out fraud, waste, abuse, and duplication etc.
I would agree with everything but the elimination of capital gains taxes. IMO, income is income is income. I have a problem with taxing the result of the investment of blood sweat and tears and not taxing the result of investment.
Many make the argument that capital gains taxing is double taxation, but I find this to be a self-serving argument. The ROI is new money to the investor, and is no different than a paycheck for the investment of time. I have a hard time accepting that for some reason the investing of money is privileged when compared with the investment of time and labor.
Also, I don't know what the number would be. If 17% is revenue neutral, I'm OK with it. If 14.5% is 200 billion a year shy, however, I would think that 17% is a little high.
OK, I see your point on capital gains, but tax it the same as the flat rate.
All state and federal income taxes abolished; all imbedded taxes on stuff like gasoline abolished, no more "sin" taxes.
IRS cut by 80%.
That would be mighty hard to prove at the 7-11 or local grocery store......
www.notaxdollarstoisrael.com
How much could we lower our taxes if no money went overseas?
Ahhhhhh the "Jewish" question ???
www.notaxdollarstoisrael.com
How much could we lower our taxes if no money went overseas?
Dang near nothing; freebie handout entitlements and defense takes most of the budget. It is a drop in the bucket compared to those others.
It's bad enough that they tax my Social Security would you have them tax it entirely at 14 or 17%? At 14% of all our income my taxes would go up by a factor of FIVE.
Our tax system is and should be progressive.
A hotel housekeeper pays a smaller amount than a CEO, not only in dollars but in percentage of earnings.
And if you need any proof of why it won't work look back to the "Great Depression"
We are there again if not for Uncle Sam bailing out the wealthiest Americans we would have been there.
Higher top tier tax rates help to control unmitigated greed.
I know you will call me a Socialist
BUT if that is the case we were a socialist country from 1933-1982.
High top tier tax rates did not cause a lack of incentive.
All the wealthy people did not move away
America was considered by many to be the Greatest country in the world and NO ONE said we were a socialist country if I recall correctly
Income inequality is real, and the lack of top tier tax rates has caused it.
I'm not talking about taking someones money and giving to the ones who don't work I'm talking about making a environment where working Americans are not being pushed into poverty
If employers are not paying a living wage than let them pay the taxes that would be paid by those folks.
Progressive tax after 30K
10% for 30-50
20% 50- 70
25% 70-100
30% 100-180
35% 180-250
40% 250-500
55% 500-1 million
75% on all income over a million
Worked fine for 50 years and top was even higher than that.
Companies would hire more workers since they can't spoon the cash into their own pockets without paying high taxes thereby creating more tax payers.
How about no taxes on any earnings considered a living wage. Approx 30K.
If employers are not paying a living wage than let them pay the taxes that would be paid by those folks.
Progressive tax after 30K
10% for 30-50
20% 50- 70
25% 70-100
30% 100-180
35% 180-250
40% 250-500
55% 500-1 million
75% on all income over a million
Worked fine for 50 years and top was even higher than that.
Companies would hire more workers since they can't spoon the cash into their own pockets without paying high taxes thereby creating more tax payers.
PROGRESSIVE TAX????? How is that "progressive" crap working out for us now? It was a dismal failure for 50 years, created a tax code full of corruption and favors. Nope, if the current buzz word is "fair" then fair is EVEN across the board, 5% or 15% I don't care, no deductions for investment income, no deductions at all for anything. If you made 60K at Ford your tax bill is ______. If you made 60K on investments your tax bill is EXACTLY THE SAME.
Furthermore, how about a LOT less money going to the feds, starve the buzzards out make them eat their young, make them cut about $400,000,000,000 is useless unconstitutional departments and bureaucracies, STOP fighting wars for decades, bring our troops home. Then jail Reid, Dodd, Durbin, Pelosi, Hillary and Obama just to be spiteful and put a smile on my face... [:D]
Sounds like you guys are smoking the pipe..[:o)]
maybe it is a peace pipe and everyone wants to hash out all the problems together...................
seriously guys this is the good ole USA the land of taxes so I'd have to say the government likes it that way so to change it we all would need to replace all of them at once to make it happen......
Flat 10% for everybody
NO DEDUCTIONS FOR ANYTHING!!
No business, no mortgage, no kids, no charities!
I'd also like to see the elimination of the state property tax and replaced with a consumption tax there as well.
Obviously, the rate would have to be significant. However, so long as the property tax remains, you can never own property free and clear. I'd much rather be able to protect the property I manage to acquire without fear of ever having to lose it due to taxes.
Whatever rate that requires, I'm willing to consider and almost certainly willing to accept.