In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Truth is stranger than fiction, Trump to bankrupt
Don McManus
Member Posts: 23,673 ✭✭✭✭
Truth is stranger than fiction. Trump to take US into Chapter 11
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/06/king-of-debt-donald-trump-says-he-knows-how-the-u-s-might-get-out-of-paying-it-all-back/
From the Link:
"I am the king of debt. I do love debt. I love debt. I love playing with it," Trump said.
"Do you believe that we, in terms of the United States, need to pay a hundred cents on the dollar, or do you think that there's actually ways that we can renegotiate that debt?" CNBC's Andrew Ross Sorkin asked him.
"Yeah, I think - look, I have borrowed, knowing that you can pay back with discounts. And I have done very well," Trump said. "I would borrow, knowing that if the economy crashed, you could make a deal, and if the economy was good, it was good, so, therefore, you can't lose."
Straight from the Obama GM and Chrysler bankruptcy playbook.
Obviously Trump will walk these idiotic statements back over the next few days, weeks, or months, but even now, with his nomination virtually assured, he demonstrates that he is not ready for, nor does he have the temperament to be our President.
Does he not understand that to buy back bonds you have to have cash?
Does he not understand that if he sets out to buy back bonds, the money he will use will be borrowed?
Does he not understand that if the bonds are being bought at a discount, the interest on the money that he will have to borrow will be much higher than the interest on the bonds that are being purchased?
I once thought a degree from the Wharton School meant something.
Months ago, I stated that Trump's positive bankruptcy experiences can not be applied to the U.S. Federal Budget and Debt. Even I did not think he was so stupid as to believe it would.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/06/king-of-debt-donald-trump-says-he-knows-how-the-u-s-might-get-out-of-paying-it-all-back/
From the Link:
"I am the king of debt. I do love debt. I love debt. I love playing with it," Trump said.
"Do you believe that we, in terms of the United States, need to pay a hundred cents on the dollar, or do you think that there's actually ways that we can renegotiate that debt?" CNBC's Andrew Ross Sorkin asked him.
"Yeah, I think - look, I have borrowed, knowing that you can pay back with discounts. And I have done very well," Trump said. "I would borrow, knowing that if the economy crashed, you could make a deal, and if the economy was good, it was good, so, therefore, you can't lose."
Straight from the Obama GM and Chrysler bankruptcy playbook.
Obviously Trump will walk these idiotic statements back over the next few days, weeks, or months, but even now, with his nomination virtually assured, he demonstrates that he is not ready for, nor does he have the temperament to be our President.
Does he not understand that to buy back bonds you have to have cash?
Does he not understand that if he sets out to buy back bonds, the money he will use will be borrowed?
Does he not understand that if the bonds are being bought at a discount, the interest on the money that he will have to borrow will be much higher than the interest on the bonds that are being purchased?
I once thought a degree from the Wharton School meant something.
Months ago, I stated that Trump's positive bankruptcy experiences can not be applied to the U.S. Federal Budget and Debt. Even I did not think he was so stupid as to believe it would.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
Brad Steele
Brad Steele
Comments
This country has been bankrupt for several years
i guess its hillary then
Only if people persist in voting for substandard candidates. If you vote for substandard candidates, you are guaranteed a substandard candidate will win. I am wondering how long it will be before voting for a good candidate comes back in style. A century or so of voting for the lessor of 2 evils has gotten us where we currently are. WAKE UP!!!! It won't change until you demand better.
Would it be so bad if we bankrupted on the debt to China?
On paper, we are already bankrupt, Obama has doubled the debt in 7 years, and you think Hillary wouldn't make it worse?
There where other candidates I liked much better than Trump, but, he is what we got, and, no one owns him. Saying your not going to vote for Trump, is a vote for Hillary, period. At the very least, three supreme court seats are at steak. I assume you like, and maybe own a firearm, by your presence on this forum, if Hillary gets in office, life as you know it, will cease to exist. Think about that for a minute, before you say you can't vote for Donald.
W.D.
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
i guess its hillary then
Only if people persist in voting for substandard candidates. If you vote for substandard candidates, you are guaranteed a substandard candidate will win. I am wondering how long it will be before voting for a good candidate comes back in style. A century or so of voting for the lessor of 2 evils has gotten us where we currently are. WAKE UP!!!! It won't change until you demand better.
and where do you suppose we get these non substandard candidates ?
quote:Originally posted by skicat
Good Lord, where have you been. The US National debt is $ 19 trillion and climbing.
This country has been bankrupt for several years
This place has many a closet libtard trying to sway things to Hildabeast.
Yep
Full of pantsuit enablers.
Hillary will destroy (By her very words) the second amendment which is the one that protects every other amendment.
Voting for anyone but Trump insures a Hillary win and the end of our nation.
Trump is a gamble, Hillary is a sure thing to the end of the republic
Anyone who thinks voting for someone you and three friends have heard about is so delusional it is confounding you can dress yourself.
To suggest we do not vote for Trump is campaigning for Hillary making you an enemy of the constitution.
And yes, it really is that simple!
Shame on you [:(!]
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
quote:Originally posted by skicat
Like Trump said, he could shoot someone on 5th Ave and his supporters will probably tell you with vigor that it never happened. Most of them want him to be a dictator and have unlimited power. so pointing out his flaws is irrelevant, because you have to be free thinking to understand them. His faction is far from that. We are seeing in real time how tyrants are made.
....do you really think this retort will make some one vote for Cruz?.....Wait, Crus is out!....[:o)]
News flash to all morons: It is either Trump or Hillary.
Hillary will destroy (By her very words) the second amendment which is the one that protects every other amendment.
Voting for anyone but Trump insures a Hillary win and the end of our nation.
Trump is a gamble, Hillary is a sure thing to the end of the republic
Anyone who thinks voting for someone you and three friends have heard about is so delusional it is confounding you can dress yourself.
To suggest we do not vote for Trump is campaigning for Hillary making you an enemy of the constitution.
And yes, it really is that simple!
Shame on you [:(!]
I was just told tonight that a vote fora Libertarian was a vote for Trump.
It is sad to realize that there are frightened little children on both sides of the political spectrum that settle for known anti-constitutional candidates because they believe the drivel they have been spoon fed by the two major parties for decades.
Time to put on your big boy pants or pantsuits and stand for something rather than cowering in the shadow of the big bad candidate you have been told you can do nothing about.
Brad Steele
Time to put on your big boy pants or pantsuits and stand for something rather than cowering in the shadow of the big bad candidate you have been told you can do nothing about.
BINGO!!!!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by skicat
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
quote:Originally posted by skicat
News flash to all morons: It is either Trump or Hillary.
Hillary will destroy (By her very words) the second amendment which is the one that protects every other amendment.
Voting for anyone but Trump insures a Hillary win and the end of our nation.
Trump is a gamble, Hillary is a sure thing to the end of the republic
Anyone who thinks voting for someone you and three friends have heard about is so delusional it is confounding you can dress yourself.
To suggest we do not vote for Trump is campaigning for Hillary making you an enemy of the constitution.
And yes, it really is that simple!
Shame on you [:(!]
Have you even bothered to read the Libertarian Party platform? If you had, you might have a clue as to why libertarians won't vote for either of your two favorites. They have far more similarities with each other than they have with the libertarian party.
Trump's positions barely intersect with libertarian values at any point.
quote:Originally posted by Wulfmann
News flash to all morons: It is either Trump or Hillary.
Hillary will destroy (By her very words) the second amendment which is the one that protects every other amendment.
Voting for anyone but Trump insures a Hillary win and the end of our nation.
Trump is a gamble, Hillary is a sure thing to the end of the republic
Anyone who thinks voting for someone you and three friends have heard about is so delusional it is confounding you can dress yourself.
To suggest we do not vote for Trump is campaigning for Hillary making you an enemy of the constitution.
And yes, it really is that simple!
Shame on you [:(!]
I was just told tonight that a vote fora Libertarian was a vote for Trump.
It is sad to realize that there are frightened little children on both sides of the political spectrum that settle for known anti-constitutional candidates because they believe the drivel they have been spoon fed by the two major parties for decades.
Time to put on your big boy pants or pantsuits and stand for something rather than cowering in the shadow of the big bad candidate you have been told you can do nothing about.
I have seen the light. I will write in a vote for what's his name who has no chance of getting elected dog catcher because i will feel liberated at being a rebel all while helping Hillary destroy the USA.
Sounds like a plan
This insane notion that some obscure platform that will do nothing (except help Hillary) is what we should choose tells me some have no idea just how endangered we as a free people are.
I am no Trump lover, did not vote for him in the primary but this is about keeping Hillary out as Trump may be a gamble but Hillary is a sure thing to the end of liberty.
Trump does not only scare the democrats and liberal socialist he scare the GOP insiders because they have no control over him, can't buy him and that maybe just what we need to jump start taking this country away from the 2 party system built for the insiders.
Trump is the best way to break that 2 party hold all while taking away that power from the GOP insiders.
And your guy will actually do what? Help Hillary finish off the constitution?
Seriously, make a reality check and wake up from fantasyland
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
quote:Originally posted by Wulfmann
News flash to all morons: It is either Trump or Hillary.
Hillary will destroy (By her very words) the second amendment which is the one that protects every other amendment.
Voting for anyone but Trump insures a Hillary win and the end of our nation.
Trump is a gamble, Hillary is a sure thing to the end of the republic
Anyone who thinks voting for someone you and three friends have heard about is so delusional it is confounding you can dress yourself.
To suggest we do not vote for Trump is campaigning for Hillary making you an enemy of the constitution.
And yes, it really is that simple!
Shame on you [:(!]
Have you even bothered to read the Libertarian Party platform? If you had, you might have a clue as to why libertarians won't vote for either of your two favorites. They have far more similarities with each other than they have with the libertarian party.
Trump's positions barely intersect with libertarian values at any point.
Even more problematic is the simple fact that Libertarian values barely intersect with reality.
Whether it is their foreign policy, the economic policy, or their views on social policy, it is about as naive a worldview as can be imagined.
I have yet to have anyone ever explain how a Libertarian ideology is going to work when 50% or more of our citizens lack the personal responsibility, and rational thought process that Libertarianism in practice would surely require. Add in the attitudes of the rest of the world, and the wonderful hypothetical dream of Libertarianism falls away quickly.
Good Lord, where have you been. The US National debt is $ 19 trillion and climbing.
This country has been bankrupt for several years
Oh,, you noticed ? Here is a link to the U.S. debt clock.. looks like the numbers flying by on a $100+ per gallon gas pump.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Personally, I'd rather see someone experienced with debt,, rather than a "clueless" politician trying to think of new ways to SPEND OUR WAY OUT OF PROBLEMS.
Like,, the current crop, lead by Obummer.
Obummer DOUBLED of the national debt in 8 years ? Not doubled now,, well close,, by the time Obummer is out,, it will be.
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by Wulfmann
News flash to all morons: It is either Trump or Hillary.
Hillary will destroy (By her very words) the second amendment which is the one that protects every other amendment.
Voting for anyone but Trump insures a Hillary win and the end of our nation.
Trump is a gamble, Hillary is a sure thing to the end of the republic
Anyone who thinks voting for someone you and three friends have heard about is so delusional it is confounding you can dress yourself.
To suggest we do not vote for Trump is campaigning for Hillary making you an enemy of the constitution.
And yes, it really is that simple!
Shame on you [:(!]
Have you even bothered to read the Libertarian Party platform? If you had, you might have a clue as to why libertarians won't vote for either of your two favorites. They have far more similarities with each other than they have with the libertarian party.
Trump's positions barely intersect with libertarian values at any point.
Even more problematic is the simple fact that Libertarian values barely intersect with reality.
Whether it is their foreign policy, the economic policy, or their views on social policy, it is about as naive a worldview as can be imagined.
I have yet to have anyone ever explain how a Libertarian ideology is going to work when 50% or more of our citizens lack the personal responsibility, and rational thought process that Libertarianism in practice would surely require. Add in the attitudes of the rest of the world, and the wonderful hypothetical dream of Libertarianism falls away quickly.
Perhaps the disconnect lies in your definition of "work." If you mean "produce the same results as the current totalitarian government we have now" then of course it won't "work" because the objectives are not the same.
Of course, 50% or more of our citizens lack the rational thought process to research and understand libertarian thought, so your results are unsurprising.
quote:Originally posted by casper1947
quote:Originally posted by skicat
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
quote:Originally posted by skicat
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by Wulfmann
News flash to all morons: It is either Trump or Hillary.
Hillary will destroy (By her very words) the second amendment which is the one that protects every other amendment.
Voting for anyone but Trump insures a Hillary win and the end of our nation.
Trump is a gamble, Hillary is a sure thing to the end of the republic
Anyone who thinks voting for someone you and three friends have heard about is so delusional it is confounding you can dress yourself.
To suggest we do not vote for Trump is campaigning for Hillary making you an enemy of the constitution.
And yes, it really is that simple!
Shame on you [:(!]
Have you even bothered to read the Libertarian Party platform? If you had, you might have a clue as to why libertarians won't vote for either of your two favorites. They have far more similarities with each other than they have with the libertarian party.
Trump's positions barely intersect with libertarian values at any point.
Even more problematic is the simple fact that Libertarian values barely intersect with reality.
Whether it is their foreign policy, the economic policy, or their views on social policy, it is about as naive a worldview as can be imagined.
I have yet to have anyone ever explain how a Libertarian ideology is going to work when 50% or more of our citizens lack the personal responsibility, and rational thought process that Libertarianism in practice would surely require. Add in the attitudes of the rest of the world, and the wonderful hypothetical dream of Libertarianism falls away quickly.
Perhaps the disconnect lies in your definition of "work." If you mean "produce the same results as the current totalitarian government we have now" then of course it won't "work" because the objectives are not the same.
Of course, 50% or more of our citizens lack the rational thought process to research and understand libertarian thought, so your results are unsurprising.
And we have another entry on the long list of folks who cannot explain how an ideology that by definition would require a high degree of personal responsibility and independence would work/operate/function with more than half the people severely lacking those traits.
It is a wonderful intellectual enterprise for those prone to dream about different versions of Utopian bliss. It is not an ideology for serious consideration when applied to a large group with diverse and varying abilities, desires, motivations, and ethics.
Spend some time reading Huxley, Bradbury, Orwell, Vonnegut. I would start with Plato's 'Republic'. Only by looking deeply into the flaws of men, can one understand the flaws of systems created by, and for, men.
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by Wulfmann
News flash to all morons: It is either Trump or Hillary.
Hillary will destroy (By her very words) the second amendment which is the one that protects every other amendment.
Voting for anyone but Trump insures a Hillary win and the end of our nation.
Trump is a gamble, Hillary is a sure thing to the end of the republic
Anyone who thinks voting for someone you and three friends have heard about is so delusional it is confounding you can dress yourself.
To suggest we do not vote for Trump is campaigning for Hillary making you an enemy of the constitution.
And yes, it really is that simple!
Shame on you [:(!]
Have you even bothered to read the Libertarian Party platform? If you had, you might have a clue as to why libertarians won't vote for either of your two favorites. They have far more similarities with each other than they have with the libertarian party.
Trump's positions barely intersect with libertarian values at any point.
Even more problematic is the simple fact that Libertarian values barely intersect with reality.
Whether it is their foreign policy, the economic policy, or their views on social policy, it is about as naive a worldview as can be imagined.
I have yet to have anyone ever explain how a Libertarian ideology is going to work when 50% or more of our citizens lack the personal responsibility, and rational thought process that Libertarianism in practice would surely require. Add in the attitudes of the rest of the world, and the wonderful hypothetical dream of Libertarianism falls away quickly.
Perhaps the disconnect lies in your definition of "work." If you mean "produce the same results as the current totalitarian government we have now" then of course it won't "work" because the objectives are not the same.
Of course, 50% or more of our citizens lack the rational thought process to research and understand libertarian thought, so your results are unsurprising.
And we have another entry on the long list of folks who cannot explain how an ideology that by definition would require a high degree of personal responsibility and independence would work/operate/function with more than half the people severely lacking those traits.
It is a wonderful intellectual enterprise for those prone to dream about different versions of Utopian bliss. It is not an ideology for serious consideration when applied to a large group with diverse and varying abilities, desires, motivations, and ethics.
Spend some time reading Huxley, Bradbury, Orwell, Vonnegut. I would start with Plato's 'Republic'. Only by looking deeply into the flaws of men, can one understand the flaws of systems created by, and for, men.
I find your response odd considering their vision is well aligned with that/those of the founders.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Does he not understand that to buy back bonds you have to have cash?
Our debt is dollar denominated and the DOLLAR HAS NO SET VALUE.
We could turn on the printing presses & pay off the debt.
Of course that would GREATLY devalue the dollar & would make it nearly impossible to do again but we have done it before. Remember the phrase Not worth a Continental.
quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by Wulfmann
News flash to all morons: It is either Trump or Hillary.
Hillary will destroy (By her very words) the second amendment which is the one that protects every other amendment.
Voting for anyone but Trump insures a Hillary win and the end of our nation.
Trump is a gamble, Hillary is a sure thing to the end of the republic
Anyone who thinks voting for someone you and three friends have heard about is so delusional it is confounding you can dress yourself.
To suggest we do not vote for Trump is campaigning for Hillary making you an enemy of the constitution.
And yes, it really is that simple!
Shame on you [:(!]
Have you even bothered to read the Libertarian Party platform? If you had, you might have a clue as to why libertarians won't vote for either of your two favorites. They have far more similarities with each other than they have with the libertarian party.
Trump's positions barely intersect with libertarian values at any point.
Even more problematic is the simple fact that Libertarian values barely intersect with reality.
Whether it is their foreign policy, the economic policy, or their views on social policy, it is about as naive a worldview as can be imagined.
I have yet to have anyone ever explain how a Libertarian ideology is going to work when 50% or more of our citizens lack the personal responsibility, and rational thought process that Libertarianism in practice would surely require. Add in the attitudes of the rest of the world, and the wonderful hypothetical dream of Libertarianism falls away quickly.
Perhaps the disconnect lies in your definition of "work." If you mean "produce the same results as the current totalitarian government we have now" then of course it won't "work" because the objectives are not the same.
Of course, 50% or more of our citizens lack the rational thought process to research and understand libertarian thought, so your results are unsurprising.
And we have another entry on the long list of folks who cannot explain how an ideology that by definition would require a high degree of personal responsibility and independence would work/operate/function with more than half the people severely lacking those traits.
It is a wonderful intellectual enterprise for those prone to dream about different versions of Utopian bliss. It is not an ideology for serious consideration when applied to a large group with diverse and varying abilities, desires, motivations, and ethics.
Spend some time reading Huxley, Bradbury, Orwell, Vonnegut. I would start with Plato's 'Republic'. Only by looking deeply into the flaws of men, can one understand the flaws of systems created by, and for, men.
I find your response odd considering their vision is well aligned with that/those of the founders.
The Libertarians view may be aligned in some ways with the Founders, but not so in many others. Libertarians believe that self-regarding actions are enough for producing a functional society. I believe that to be flawed at its core. There are, as I have mentioned, the various and sundry failings of men, some of whom will 'self-regard' to gather to themselves your stuff. As Madison said in Federalist #55: "As there is a degree of depravity in mankind, which requires a certain degree of circumspection and distrust: so there are other qualities in human nature, which justify a certain portion of esteem and confidence. Republican government presupposes the existence of these [latter] qualities in a higher degree than any other form."
It is the finding of that balance between conflicting self-interests that I see a fatal incongruity in Libertarianism. How does a society monitor and/or prevent self-interest of one man that infringes upon another, when the guiding ethos is as the 'Harm Principle' Mill first postulated: "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others." That is a moral claim, yet Libertarians say they do not judge right or wrong. A logical fallacy appears. 'We do not know what is right or wrong, therefore it is wrong to do ____.' Mill himself knew this principle could obviously not apply to children and mentally infirm individuals, and that concession alone undermines the concept itself, as does his insistence that only applies to physical harm. Is there no moral harm to consider? Abortion seems a moral quandary waiting to happen in the World of the Libertarian. The unborn has no way to express a self interest, therefore it has none? It seems society has a role to play, or at least I think it should.
That I think is where I see the Libertarian worldview is lacking, and in conflict with the Founders. While the Founders certainly sought and hoped for a far more limited government than we have today, they, perhaps far more than many today also saw the human failing and the need for a society and a governmental system that acknowledged that reality.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by Wulfmann
News flash to all morons: It is either Trump or Hillary.
Hillary will destroy (By her very words) the second amendment which is the one that protects every other amendment.
Voting for anyone but Trump insures a Hillary win and the end of our nation.
Trump is a gamble, Hillary is a sure thing to the end of the republic
Anyone who thinks voting for someone you and three friends have heard about is so delusional it is confounding you can dress yourself.
To suggest we do not vote for Trump is campaigning for Hillary making you an enemy of the constitution.
And yes, it really is that simple!
Shame on you [:(!]
Have you even bothered to read the Libertarian Party platform? If you had, you might have a clue as to why libertarians won't vote for either of your two favorites. They have far more similarities with each other than they have with the libertarian party.
Trump's positions barely intersect with libertarian values at any point.
Even more problematic is the simple fact that Libertarian values barely intersect with reality.
Whether it is their foreign policy, the economic policy, or their views on social policy, it is about as naive a worldview as can be imagined.
I have yet to have anyone ever explain how a Libertarian ideology is going to work when 50% or more of our citizens lack the personal responsibility, and rational thought process that Libertarianism in practice would surely require. Add in the attitudes of the rest of the world, and the wonderful hypothetical dream of Libertarianism falls away quickly.
Perhaps the disconnect lies in your definition of "work." If you mean "produce the same results as the current totalitarian government we have now" then of course it won't "work" because the objectives are not the same.
Of course, 50% or more of our citizens lack the rational thought process to research and understand libertarian thought, so your results are unsurprising.
And we have another entry on the long list of folks who cannot explain how an ideology that by definition would require a high degree of personal responsibility and independence would work/operate/function with more than half the people severely lacking those traits.
It is a wonderful intellectual enterprise for those prone to dream about different versions of Utopian bliss. It is not an ideology for serious consideration when applied to a large group with diverse and varying abilities, desires, motivations, and ethics.
Spend some time reading Huxley, Bradbury, Orwell, Vonnegut. I would start with Plato's 'Republic'. Only by looking deeply into the flaws of men, can one understand the flaws of systems created by, and for, men.
Where are you getting the idea that the objective of libertarian thought is "Utopian bliss"? If that's your perception, you've missed the point entirely.
And I'm familiar with all those philosophers/writers you mention. I agree that they expose the flaws of the systems they present.