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A vote for Johnson is a vote for Trump
Don McManus
Member Posts: 23,489 ✭✭✭✭
Took my mother out to dinner today for Mother's Day.
Brief political conversation. She said Clinton is a snake, but she will vote for her because Trump is such a clown.
I suggested she look at the Libertarian Party platform (I think she would fit it to a tee, frankly).
She said:
Precisely.
Word for word.
'But a vote for a Libertarian would be a vote for Trump.'
So, all of you bleating hearts that tell us a vote for a third party will be a vote for Clinton will be comforted to know that there is an equal number of sheep in the neighbor's paddock saying the same thing you are, but out of fear of the other wolf.
You party hacks just crack me up.
Brief political conversation. She said Clinton is a snake, but she will vote for her because Trump is such a clown.
I suggested she look at the Libertarian Party platform (I think she would fit it to a tee, frankly).
She said:
Precisely.
Word for word.
'But a vote for a Libertarian would be a vote for Trump.'
So, all of you bleating hearts that tell us a vote for a third party will be a vote for Clinton will be comforted to know that there is an equal number of sheep in the neighbor's paddock saying the same thing you are, but out of fear of the other wolf.
You party hacks just crack me up.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
Brad Steele
Brad Steele
Comments
Took my mother out to dinner today for Mother's Day.
Brief political conversation. She said Clinton is a snake, but she will vote for her because Trump is such a clown.
I suggested she look at the Libertarian Party platform (I think she would fit it to a tee, frankly).
She said:
Precisely.
Word for word.
'But a vote for a Libertarian would be a vote for Trump.'
So, all of you bleating hearts that tell us a vote for a third party will be a vote for Clinton will be comforted to know that there is an equal number of sheep in the neighbor's paddock saying the same thing you are, but out of fear of the other wolf.
You party hacks just crack me up.
Making your Mom look bad cracks me up....hope she doesn't read this post, you will be out of the will...
Your hypocrisy regarding the GOP primary process is understandable.....but openly insulting your Mother, on Mother's Day weekend in a public forum?
Damn
Those same people would have missed the fact her and that statement are identical in meaning, effect, and motivation.
If I had stated 'some democrat' there would be no meaning, as it would not be coming from a person whom I know and respect, just as the same statement from the opposite side comes from people here I don't know but respect. There is no insult. She, like those here seem to make up the great majority of the voters in this county, and sadly, yes they / you are acting out of an unreasonable fear of the unknown and are, again sadly, behaving as sheep.
Don't understand the hypocrisy statement. There is nothing I've stated regarding the primary system that is hypocritical. I've attended caucuses for the past 36 years, two county conventions and one state convention. Stating that anything I've said is hypocritical is either a deliberate poke or the demonstration of a fundamental lack of understanding of what I have written.
The simple fact that a large number of people in both camps are voting for nothing or worse should give people pause. If you want to focus upon some perceived slight, you've totally missed the point.
Brad Steele
Fully half the people on this forum would think me praising my mother had she stated that a vote for Johnson was a vote for Clinton.
Those same people would have missed the fact her and that statement are identical in meaning, effect, and motivation.
Just to be clear: I think the "A vote for _____ is the same as a vote for _______" is a ridiculous argument. I have stated that several times on here.
The other sides preferred tactic is "Trump is the same as Clinton" is equally ridiculous.
Basically, I don't care who you vote for, but if you are basing the decision on something that I think is patently false, I say so. And to be fair, I don't believe I have heard either of those arguments from you.
quote: She, like those here seem to make up the great majority of the voters in this county, and sadly, yes they / you are acting out of an unreasonable fear of the unknown and are, again sadly, behaving as sheep.
Another point of clarification. If I vote for Trump in the general, it will not out of an irritational fear of the unknown...it will be out of an irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton.
Re: Gary Johnson: Setting his "electability" aside....If my vote was the only vote that mattered and I got to pick the President...I still wouldn't vote for him. Johnson supports amnesty (he calls it a "grace period", btw). The third world horde that is overrunning our country is a crisis and must be addressed immediately. Honestly, I am pretty certain we have already passed the point of no return on this issue. I don't think any non Democrat can win the Presidency at this point. Mitt Romney was aa milqtost a candidate as the GOP could run....running against a deeply unpopular President, and if I am not mistaken, took a higher percentage of the white vote than even Reagan did in his landslide election....and still got crushed in the Electoral College.
quote:
Don't understand the hypocrisy statement. There is nothing I've stated regarding the primary system that is hypocritical. I've attended caucuses for the past 36 years, two county conventions and one state convention. Stating that anything I've said is hypocritical is either a deliberate poke or the demonstration of a fundamental lack of understanding of what I have written.
The hypocrisy remarks reference this discussion:
https://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=674249&whichpage=3
There is no deliberate poke on my part. I was truly surprised to see you arguing for the perogatives of the Party when selecting a candidate, when I clearly remember you lobbying strongly for Ron Paul, a candidate probably more frightening to the GOP establishment than Trump.
quote:
The simple fact that a large number of people in both camps are voting for nothing or worse should give people pause. If you want to focus upon some perceived slight, you've totally missed the point.
I would disagree that I have missed anything and I still consider your characterization of your Mother as a "Sheep" to be incredibly poor form.
I deliberately spent a day of reflection yesterday based upon your posts and came to the point where I think you are correct in that I have let this election cycle occupy too much of my time and emotion.
Firstly, while I believe a first person account is much more powerful than relating a story of some anonymous person, it was in bad form to call my mother one of the sheep. It is done now, and I can't undo it.
Secondly, there is no hypocrisy in my statement. I twice stated that the party has the right, both legally and morally to select anyone they want to. In 2008, our state GOP, literally in the dead of night, eliminated all non-McCain delegates to the National Convention. I disagreed with this and walked out of the convention prior to noon on the second day because of it, but I in no way suggested it was not within their power to do so, regardless of who I supported. At our county convention in 2012, the Romney folks, I an sure with the blessing of the GNC, did the same thing so as to eliminate these folks from the State Convention. Again, it was within there power to do so, and while I disagreed, it is part of the deal, and who I support does not alter that fact.
I am going to take a break from politics for a while, and, frankly, thank you for the wake up call. I cannot resist, however, a parting statement.
Saturday morning in the mail I received my primary ballot from our county treasurer. I could vote Democrat if I stated I considered myself a Democrat and I could vote Republican if I stated that I considered myself Republican. Obviously this exposes how the two parties have corrupted the system, but more importantly, particularly given how they operate as referenced above, it left me wondering 'Why the hell are my tax dollars paying for a Democrat or Republican primary'? This pushed a button that I still angers me, though it is something that will not be fixed until the two-party cabal is broken.
A second, and more important reason I am going to take a break is because I find myself losing respect for people I once respected.
If you are a Hilary supporter because you support her vision for America, I may think you an idiot, but I respect that decision, because it is from the heart.
If you are a Trump supporter because you support his vision for America, I may think you an idiot, but I respect that decision, because it is from the heart.
(I confess that it is my arrogance that makes me think these two camps idiotic. This is something I should probably work on, but probably won't.)
If, however, you support Trump because he is not Hilary, and support Hilary because she is not Trump, you are occupying a position, particularly if you have not researched other options, I cannot bring myself to respect. Accepting one of the two major party candidates primary because that candidate is not the other, is nothing short of giving up on America, IMO, and advocating for that position is something that borders on inexcusable.
Less than 5% of eligible voters have voted for Trump in this Primary season.
Less than 5% of eligible voters have voted for Clinton in this Primary season.
It is ridiculous to suggest that we are to consider ourselves locked in to the decision of this trivial number of people.
Until thinking people stand up and vote for something in sufficient numbers to convince the non-thinking people that actual change is possible, we will continue to have a vocal 5% - 10% dump their garbage on us every November. I coined the phrase in my sig line a number of years ago. We are watching our freedoms erode every election cycle because we are too submissive.
Thanks again for opening my eyes a bit, Mr. Ops.
All the best.
Don
Brad Steele
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I try to come here to learn something. I think debate is a good thing. Too many people on the forum are too comfortable being around people who think exactly the way they do.
That's why so few people come over to this side.
If you post here....even if I don't agree with anything you say, you have my respect for at least being willing to step in and swing.
I do wish the conversations didn't trend towards one-upsmanship and zingers.....and I admittedly share as much blame for that as anyone.
I don't think anyone here is what is wrong with the country, regardless of how much as we tend to call each other sheeple, Hillary supporters, low-info voters, etc.
In short, I hope you stick around.
Edit: To add one more thing.....there isn't anyone here who has posted for a significant amount of time and hasn't said something they later regret or was taken a different way than they intended.
Don,
I try to come here to learn something. I think debate is a good thing. Too many people on the forum are too comfortable being around people who think exactly the way they do.
That's why so few people come over to this side.
If you post here....even if I don't agree with anything you say, you have my respect for at least being willing to step in and swing.
I do wish the conversations didn't trend towards one-upsmanship and zingers.....and I admittedly share as much blame for that as anyone.
I don't think anyone here is what is wrong with the country, regardless of how much as we tend to call each other sheeple, Hillary supporters, low-info voters, etc.
In short, I hope you stick around.
Edit: To add one more thing.....there isn't anyone here who has posted for a significant amount of time and hasn't said something they later regret or was taken a different way than they intended.
Well said Rack. We don't always see eye to eye, but I always appreciate your input on any subject.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
With no disrespect to your mother coming a GB and saying "But mommy said" should have ended before you entered the first grade
You missed the point, but that really isn't too surprising.
Brad Steele
If it were from a man of reason I would be insulted but alas [:D]
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck