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Is anybody voting for Chuck Baldwin for prez?
steve45
Member Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭
He has been endorsed by Ron Paul. Who is he, anybody a fan of his?
Comments
No fan here, but the platform can be found on their website if you are interested.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/
Brad Steele
How do you square the constant reference to the 'Law of our Creator' in the Constitution Party Platform, and the statement that Jesus Christ is the ruler of the United States with the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment?
I personally like a large amount of their platform, but cringe every time they bring God into the discussion. Almost everything they state I believe to be true, but the tone is that of a theocracy guided by a Constitution that is of secondary importance.
Just my take, and am curious as to how supporters justify the tone.
Brad Steele
Obviously you can read my mind, but in the future please wait till after I post my questions before you answer.[:)]
Brad Steele
Juggernaut:
How do you square the constant reference to the 'Law of our Creator' in the Constitution Party Platform, and the statement that Jesus Christ is the ruler of the United States with the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment?
I personally like a large amount of their platform, but cringe every time they bring God into the discussion. Almost everything they state I believe to be true, but the tone is that of a theocracy guided by a Constitution that is of secondary importance.
Just my take, and am curious as to how supporters justify the tone.
Don,
I agree with your assessment of the Constitution Party.
I have a strong belief in God and assess that America was founded by those of Judeo-Christian beliefs. I also feel that these beliefs and value-systems were, at least in part, the basis for many of our societal norms and laws. This is a good thing IMO.
However, I find that the multiple references that you point out, are of concern to me also. We have a rock-solid Constitution as written and adherence to said Constitution requires no adoption of a "religious code".
To clarify, I have no problem with Christianity being promoted by private citizens, but I do have a problem with its being adopted as a "party-platform", thus turning away many non-believing 'rugged individualists' and freedom-loving American's because of that fact.
Were it not for the direct inclusion of religion into the Constitution Party's Platform, its goals and plans, I would likely be a member/supporter myself.
I actually struggled with this one for a while. Hell, if I could snap my fingers and instill the values espoused by Christ into the hearts of all Americans, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I cannot in good conscience participate in doing it through government.
Brad Steele
lt:
I actually struggled with this one for a while. Hell, if I could snap my fingers and instill the values espoused by Christ into the hearts of all Americans, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I cannot in good conscience participate in doing it through government.
Understood Don and agreed wholeheartedly.
I don't appreaciate scientists lecturing me about religion
I don't appreaciate churches lecturing me about science
I don't appreaciate either one lecturing me about politics
Nor do I care for politicians sticking their noses into either science or religion.
Here is a pretty good description of the Honorable Chuck Baldwin and Honorable Ron Paul:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Baldwin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul
I understand it as zeal for Jesus Christ and believe it completely and pledge my life to Jesus Christ, as I am not ashamed of Jesus Christ whatsoever and want that made public and clear even though I sometimes fail in my deeds, thoughts and words. Now I can also understand however that certain aspects of our beliefs may not be deemed appropriate to place directly within the platform itself as this party promotes the Constitution and although most of us are Christian we do not force anyone to aspire to our Christian beliefs nor should anyone inquire in an invasive way as to someone else's. I believe that Christian members of the party simply are showing respect and paying tribute to our Lord. There will always be slightly different views within any party so as the main attributes exist amongst all of its members.
Displaying zeal for Jesus Christ and devotion to and pride in ones religion are fine and a good thing, IMO.
A political party's platform is no place for either, nor is the resultant government.
The Constitution stands "as is". Adherence to the founding ideals of individualism and liberty need no connection to any religion, period.
Any "party" or "government" that does so, is flat wrong and is defeating the very ideals that they purport to espouse, again IMO.
I might vote for Baldwin, might vote for Paul, or perhaps Obama- havent made up my mind yet.
Again it is not a forcible concept that anyone either within the Constitution Party or not is compelled to follow, it is simply referenced to, such as our present Constitution: One Nation under God, In God we trust, etc, there are several non believers in the Party that are as patriotic to the Constitution as we are and no one forces anything upon them, I think that this is just a simple misconception, although everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Don't worry no one in the Constitution Party is going to force anyone to believe in and follow Jesus Christ.
No worry here with me.
I am not going to be forced to do anything by any party, third or mainstream.
A simple observation and commentary is all that occurred.
I merely opine that the Constitution Party has made a mistake by not sticking to the Constitution itself, rather than interjecting religion into the equation.
Again it is not a forcible concept that anyone either within the Constitution Party or not is compelled to follow, it is simply referenced to, such as our present Constitution: One Nation under God, In God we trust, etc, there are several non believers in the Party that are as patriotic to the Constitution as we are and no one forces anything upon them, I think that this is just a simple misconception, although everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Don't worry no one in the Constitution Party is going to force anyone to believe in and follow Jesus Christ.
Juggernaut:
I would have to agree with lt on this one.
Couple of points:
1. Contrary to your suggestion, you must note that God, Creator, etc. is never mentioned in the U.S. Constitution. Well, 'Lord' (as in Year of our Lord on thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven') is noted in Article 7.[:)]
2. It comes across as much more than 'simply referenced', and is repeated enough to ensure that the reader understands from who the Constitution and this Government actually gets its power. IMO, the intent is obvious, that the Constitution is subordinate to the true Ruler of these United States.
No harm done. Absent these references there would be little question that the party would have my support. With these references I am morally obligated to look elsewhere.
All the best,
Don
Brad Steele
No, nor you or anyone else would be forced to believe or do anything as long as I am involved as well as the Constitution Party and I can appreciate the opinion of others as well as my own.
No way to "force" me, since I won't be involved because of the inclusion of that portion of the party's positions/beliefs.
If Christian's choose to form their own party, in the form of the Constitution Party, fine. I am just not joining.
It is about "The Constitution" at the government level, not "religion".
Religion is to be kept unfettered, alive and freely-practiced amongst the populace, just not "BY" the government.
Yes it is mentioned several times, but take into consideration that Chuck Baldwin is also an ordained minister, which is not a crime although some believe it to be.
Again however, no one in the Constitution Party is going to force Christian beliefs upon anyone as Jesus Christ Himself doesn't either and wants individuals to come to Him freely on their own accord.
So we have some slightly different beliefs although the main attributes are there and that is what is important, personally imo our religious beliefs are our own and should not be displayed in such a manner as to portray the wrong idea to people or cause them to go away from it especially with a political view, so I do understand your point of view.
I never said that God was mentioned in the Constitution, it has been used several times elsewhere however during the birth of our Nation.
Yes it is mentioned several times, but take into consideration that Chuck Baldwin is also an ordained minister, which is not a crime although some believe it to be.
Again however, no one in the Constitution Party is going to force Christian beliefs upon anyone as Jesus Christ Himself doesn't either and wants individuals to come to Him freely on their own accord.
So we have some slightly different beliefs although the main attributes are there and that is what is important, personally imo our religious beliefs are our own and should not be displayed in such a manner as to portray the wrong idea to people or cause them to go away from it especially with a political view, so I do understand your point of view.
Sir, you do realize that I am a Christian also.
I simply have not lost sight of the role of government and the fact that adhering to the Constitution, its Bill of Rights, or our founding principles of individualism, does not require the addition, or adoption, of any religious affiliation, or ideals.
That is all and it is too bad that this party has seen fit to do so, again IMO.
Again however, no one in the Constitution Party is going to force Christian beliefs upon anyone as Jesus Christ Himself doesn't either and wants individuals to come to Him freely on their own accord.
From the Constitution Party Platform:
"All teaching is related to basic assumptions about God and man. Education as a whole, therefore, cannot be separated from religious faith."
Sounds like indocrination to me.....which is comically ironic given the rest of the platform's railing against indocrination in public schools.
There is always McCain's or Obama's group to choose from as well if one feels so inclined as maybe they feel that those parties would be better for them.
damnit all [:)]
Maybe next time I'll try using Global Warming....that always ruffles the feathers 'round here [:p]
Here I am trying to pick a fight and not only will you not take the bait, you insist on being nice about it.
damnit all [:)]
Maybe next time I'll try using Global Warming....that always ruffles the feathers 'round here [:p]
There is no such thing as "man-made" global warming. It is merely cyclical and natural. [;)]
There is no such thing as "man-made" global warming. It is merely cyclical and natural. [;)]
[:D]
Should we start our own thread, or hijack this one?
quote:Originally posted by lt496
There is no such thing as "man-made" global warming. It is merely cyclical and natural. [;)]
[:D]
Should we start our own thread, or hijack this one?
Just trying to show how easy it is to "ruffle feathers" around here Rack.[;)][:D][:o)] Figured that would bring you out.
Just trying to show how easy it is to "ruffle feathers" around here Rack.[;)][:D][:o)] Figured that would bring you out.
but I already said I was trying to pick a fight [;)]
quote:Originally posted by lt496
Just trying to show how easy it is to "ruffle feathers" around here Rack.[;)][:D][:o)] Figured that would bring you out.
but I already said I was trying to pick a fight [;)]
Gee whiz Wally, didn't think you had any fight in you, flying that flag in you sig. [;)][:D]
Gee whiz Wally, didn't think you had any fight in you, flying that flag in you sig. [;)][:D]
You thought wrong.
Plenty of fight in this 'cat, major [;)]