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AWB 2008 or H.R.6257 its here (c&p)

OdawgpOdawgp Member Posts: 5,380 ✭✭
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-6257

HR 6257 IH
110th CONGRESS
2d Session
H. R. 6257
To reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
June 12, 2008
Mr. KIRK (for himself, Mr. CASTLE, Mr. FERGUSON, and Mr. SHAYS) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary


A BILL
To reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Assault Weapons Ban Reauthorization Act of 2008'.
SEC. 2. RESTRICTION ON MANUFACTURE, TRANSFER, AND POSSESSION OF CERTAIN SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS.
(a) RESTRICTION- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding after subsection (u) the following:
`(v)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.
`(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed under Federal law on the date of the enactment of this subsection.
`(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--
`(A) any of the firearms, or replicas or duplicates of the firearms, specified in appendix A to this section, as such firearms were manufactured on October 1, 1993;
`(B) any firearm that--
`(i) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or slide action;
`(ii) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or
`(iii) is an antique firearm;
`(C) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than 5 rounds of ammunition; or
`(D) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than 5 rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.
The fact that a firearm is not listed in appendix A shall not be construed to mean that paragraph (1) applies to such firearm. No firearm exempted by this subsection may be deleted from appendix A so long as this subsection is in effect.
`(4) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--
`(A) the manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by the United States or a department or agency of the United States (including the United States Armed Forces and, under regulations pursuant to title 50, United States Code, the National Guard and Reserve), or a State or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a State, or a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement officer employed by such an entity for purposes of law enforcement (whether on or off duty);
`(B) the transfer to a licensee under title I of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 for purposes of establishing and maintaining an on-site physical protection system and security organization required by Federal law, or possession by an employee or contractor of such licensee on-site for such purposes or off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or transportation of nuclear materials;
`(C) the possession, by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving a firearm, of a semiautomatic assault weapon transferred to the individual by the agency upon such retirement; or
`(D) the manufacture, transfer, or possession of a semiautomatic assault weapon by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary.'.
(b) DEFINITION OF SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPON- Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding after paragraph (29) the following:
`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means--
`(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as--
`(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
`(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
`(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
`(iv) Colt AR-15;
`(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
`(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
`(vii) Steyr AUG;
`(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
`(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;
`(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
`(iii) a bayonet mount;
`(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
`(v) a grenade launcher;
`(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
`(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
`(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
`(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
`(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and
`(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and
`(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of--
`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
`(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
`(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.'.
(c) PENALTIES-
(1) VIOLATION OF SECTION 922(v)- Section 924(a)(1)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking `or (q) of section 922' and inserting `(r), or (v) of section 922'.
(2) USE OR POSSESSION DURING CRIME OF VIOLENCE OR DRUG TRAFFICKING CRIME- Section 924(c)(1)(B)(i) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting `or semiautomatic assault weapon,' after `short-barreled shotgun,'.
(d) IDENTIFICATION MARKINGS FOR SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS- Section 923(i) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `The serial number of any semiautomatic assault weapon manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall clearly show the date on which the weapon was manufactured.'.
SEC. 3. BAN OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.
(a) PROHIBITION- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 2(a), is amended by adding after subsection (v) the following:
`(w)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device.
`(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.
`(3) This subsection shall not apply to--
`(A) the manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by the United States or a department or agency of the United States (including the United States Armed Forces and, under regulations pursuant to title 50, United States Code, the National Guard and Reserve), or a State or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a State, or a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement officer employed by such an entity for purposes of law enforcement (whether on or off duty);
`(B) the transfer to a licensee under title I of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 for purposes of establishing and maintaining an on-site physical protection system and security organization required by Federal law, or possession by an employee or contractor of such licensee on-site for such purposes or off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or transportation of nuclear materials;
`(C) the possession, by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving ammunition, of a large capacity ammunition feeding device transferred to the individual by the agency upon such retirement; or
`(D) the manufacture, transfer, or possession of any large capacity ammunition feeding device by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary.'.
`(4) If a person charged with violating paragraph (1) asserts that paragraph (1) does not apply to such person because of paragraph (2) or (3), the Government shall have the burden of proof to show that such paragraph (1) applies to such person. The lack of a serial number as described in section 923(i) of title 18, United States Code, shall be a presumption that the large capacity ammunition feeding device is not subject to the prohibition of possession in paragraph (1).'.
(b) DEFINITION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE- Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 2(b), is amended by adding after paragraph (30) the following:
`(31) The term `large capacity ammunition feeding device'--
`(A) means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; but
`(B) does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.'.
(c) PENALTY- Section 924(a)(1)(B) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 2(c), is amended by striking `or (v)' and inserting `(v), or (w)'.
(d) IDENTIFICATION MARKINGS FOR LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES- Section 923(i) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 2(d), is amended by adding at the end the following: `A large capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall be identified by a serial number that clearly shows that the device was manufactured or imported after the effective date of this subsection, and such other identification as the Attorney General may by regulation prescribe.'.
SEC. 4. STUDY BY ATTORNEY GENERAL.
(a) STUDY- The Attorney General shall investigate and study the effect of this Act and the amendments made by this Act, and in particular shall determine their impact, if any, on violent and drug trafficking crime. The study shall be conducted over a period of 18 months, commencing 12 months after the date of enactment of this Act.
(b) REPORT- Not later than 30 months after the date of enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall prepare and submit to the Congress a report setting forth in detail the findings and determinations made in the study under subsection (a).
SEC. 5. EFFECTIVE DATE.
This Act and the amendments made by this Act--
(1) shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act; and
(2) are repealed effective as of the date that is 10 years after that date.
SEC. 6. APPENDIX A TO SECTION 922 OF TITLE 18.
Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following appendix:

`APPENDIX A

`Centerfire Rifles--Autoloaders
`Browning BAR Mark II Safari Semi-Auto Rifle
`Browning BAR Mark II Safari Magnum Rifle
`Browning High-Power Rifle
`Heckler & Koch Model 300 Rifle
`Iver Johnson M-1 Carbine
`Iver Johnson 50th Anniversary M-1 Carbine
`Marlin Model 9 Camp Carbine
`Marlin Model 45 Carbine
`Remington Nylon 66 Auto-Loading Rifle
`Remington Model 7400 Auto Rifle
`Remington Model 7400 Rifle
`Remington Model 7400 Special Purpose Auto Rifle
`Ruger Mini-14 Autoloading Rifle (w/o folding stock)
`Ruger Mini Thirty Rifle
`Centerfire Rifles--Lever & Slide
`Browning Model 81 BLR Lever-Action Rifle
`Browning Model 81 Long Action BLR
`Browning Model 1886 Lever-Action Carbine
`Browning Model 1886 High Grade Carbine
`Cimarron 1860 Henry Replica
`Cimarron 1866 Winchester Replica
`Cimarron 1873 Short Rifle
`Cimarron 1873 Sporting Rifle
`Cimarron 1873 30" Express Rifle
`Dixie Engraved 1873 Rifle
`E.M.F. 1866 Yellowboy Lever Actions
`E.M.F. 1860 Henry Rifle
`E.M.F. Model 73 Lever-Action Rifle
`Marlin Model 336CS Lever-Action Carbine
`Marlin Model 30AS Lever-Action Carbine
`Marlin Model 444SS Lever-Action Sporter
`Marlin Model 1894S Lever-Action Carbine
`Marlin Model 1894CS Carbine
`Marlin Model 1894CL Classic
`Marlin Model 1895SS Lever-Action Rifle
`Mitchell 1858 Henry Replica
`Mitchell 1866 Winchester Replica
`Mitchell 1873 Winchester Replica
`Navy Arms Military Henry Rifle
`Navy Arms Henry Trapper
`Navy Arms Iron Frame Henry
`Navy Arms Henry Carbine
`Navy Arms 1866 Yellowboy Rifle
`Navy Arms 1873 Winchester-Style Rifle
`Navy Arms 1873 Sporting Rifle
`Remington 7600 Slide Action
`Remington Model 7600 Special Purpose Slide Action
`Rossi M92 SRC Saddle-Ring Carbine
`Rossi M92 SRS Short Carbine
`Savage 99C Lever-Action Rifle
`Uberti Henry Rifle
`Uberti 1866 Sporting Rifle
`Uberti 1873 Sporting Rifle
`Winchester Model 94 Side Eject Lever-Action Rifle
`Winchester Model 94 Trapper Side Eject
`Winchester Model 94 Big Bore Side Eject
`Winchester Model 94 Ranger Side Eject Lever-Action Rifle
`Winchester Model 94 Wrangler Side Eject

`Centerfire Rifles--Bolt Action

`Alpine Bolt-Action Rifle
`A-Square Caesar Bolt-Action Rifle
`A-Square Hannibal Bolt-Action Rifle
`Anschutz 1700D Classic Rifle
`Anschutz 1700D Custom Rifle
`Anschutz 1700D Bavarian Bolt-Action Rifle
`Anschutz 1733D Mannlicher Rifle
`Barret Model 90 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Beeman/HW 60J Bolt-Action Rifle
`Blaser R84 Bolt-Action Rifle
`BRNO 537 Sporter Bolt-Action Rifle
`BRNO ZKB 527 Fox Bolt-Action Rifle
`BRNO ZKK 600, 601, and 602 Bolt-Action Rifles
`Browning A-Bolt Rifle
`Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker
`Browning A-Bolt Left Hand
`Browning A-Bolt Short Action
`Browning Euro-Bolt Rifle
`Browning A-Bolt Gold Medallion
`Browning A-Bolt Micro Medallion
`Century Centurion 14 Sporter
`Century Enfield Sporter #4
`Century Swedish Sporter #38
`Century Mauser 98 Sporter
`Cooper Model 38 Centerfire Sporter
`Dakota 22 Sporter Bolt-Action Rifle
`Dakota 76 Classic Bolt-Action Rifle
`Dakota 76 Short Action Rifle
`Dakota 76 Safari Bolt-Action Rifle
`Dakota 416 Rigby African
`E.A.A./Sabatti Rover 870 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Auguste Francotte Bolt-Action Rifle
`Carl Gustaf 2000 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Heym Magnum Express Series Rifle
`Howa Lightning Bolt-Action Rifle
`Howa Realtree Camo Rifle
`Interarms Mark X Viscount Bolt-Action Rifle
`Interarms Mini-Mark X Rifle
`Interarms Mark X Whitworth Bolt-Action Rifle
`Interarms Whitworth Express Rifle
`Iver Johnson Model 5100A1 Long-Range Rifle
`KDF K15 American Bolt-Action Rifle
`Krico Model 600 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Krico Model 700 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Mauser Model 66 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Mauser Model 99 Bolt-Action Rifle
`McMillan Signature Classic Sporter
`McMillan Signature Super Varminter
`McMillan Signature Alaskan
`McMillan Signature Titanium Mountain Rifle
`McMillan Classic Stainless Sporter
`McMillan Talon Safari Rifle
`McMillan Talon Sporter Rifle
`Midland 1500S Survivor Rifle
`Navy Arms TU-33/40 Carbine
`Parker-Hale Model 81 Classic Rifle
`Parker-Hale Model 81 Classic African Rifle
`Parker-Hale Model 1000 Rifle
`Parker-Hale Model 1100M African Magnum
`Parker-Hale Model 1100 Lightweight Rifle
`Parker-Hale Model 1200 Super Rifle
`Parker-Hale Model 1200 Super Clip Rifle
`Parker-Hale Model 1300C Scout Rifle
`Parker-Hale Model 2100 Midland Rifle
`Parker-Hale Model 2700 Lightweight Rifle
`Parker-Hale Model 2800 Midland Rifle
`Remington Model Seven Bolt-Action Rifle
`Remington Model Seven Youth Rifle
`Remington Model Seven Custom KS
`Remington Model Seven Custom MS Rifle
`Remington 700 ADL Bolt-Action Rifle
`Remington 700 BDL Bolt-Action Rifle
`Remington 700 BDL Varmint Special
`Remington 700 BDL European Bolt-Action Rifle
`Remington 700 Varmint Synthetic Rifle
`Remington 700 BDL SS Rifle
`Remington 700 Stainless Synthetic Rifle
`Remington 700 MTRSS Rifle
`Remington 700 BDL Left Hand
`Remington 700 Camo Synthetic Rifle
`Remington 700 Safari
`Remington 700 Mountain Rifle
`Remington 700 Custom KS Mountain Rifle
`Remington 700 Classic Rifle
`Ruger M77 Mark II Rifle
`Ruger M77 Mark II Magnum Rifle
`Ruger M77RL Ultra Light
`Ruger M77 Mark II All-Weather Stainless Rifle
`Ruger M77 RSI International Carbine
`Ruger M77 Mark II Express Rifle
`Ruger M77VT Target Rifle
`Sako Hunter Rifle
`Sako FiberClass Sporter
`Sako Safari Grade Bolt Action
`Sako Hunter Left-Hand Rifle
`Sako Classic Bolt Action
`Sako Hunter LS Rifle
`Sako Deluxe Lightweight
`Sako Super Deluxe Sporter
`Sako Mannlicher-Style Carbine
`Sako Varmint Heavy Barrel
`Sako TRG-S Bolt-Action Rifle
`Sauer 90 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Savage 110G Bolt-Action Rifle
`Savage 110CY Youth/Ladies Rifle
`Savage 110WLE One of One Thousand Limited Edition Rifle
`Savage 110GXP3 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Savage 110F Bolt-Action Rifle
`Savage 110FXP3 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Savage 110GV Varmint Rifle
`Savage 112FV Varmint Rifle
`Savage Model 112FVS Varmint Rifle
`Savage Model 112BV Heavy Barrel Varmint Rifle
`Savage 116FSS Bolt-Action Rifle
`Savage Model 116FSK Kodiak Rifle
`Savage 110FP Police Rifle
`Steyr-Mannlicher Sporter Models SL, L, M, S, and S/T
`Steyr-Mannlicher Luxus Models L, M, and S
`Steyr-Mannlicher Model M Professional Rifle
`Tikka Bolt-Action Rifle
`Tikka Premium Grade Rifle
`Tikka Varmint/Continental Rifle
`Tikka Whitetail/Battue Rifle
`Ultra Light Arms Model 20 Rifle
`Ultra Light Arms Model 28 and Model 40 Rifles
`Voere VEC 91 Lightning Bolt-Action Rifle
`Voere Model 2165 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Voere Model 2155 and 2150 Bolt-Action Rifles
`Weatherby Mark V Deluxe Bolt-Action Rifle
`Weatherby Lasermark V Rifle
`Weatherby Mark V Crown Custom Rifle
`Weatherby Mark V Sporter Rifle
`Weatherby Mark V Safari Grade Custom Rifle
`Weatherby Weathermark Rifle
`Weatherby Weathermark Alaskan Rifle
`Weatherby Classicmark No. 1 Rifle
`Weatherby Weatherguard Alaskan Rifle
`Weatherby Vanguard VGX Deluxe Rifle
`Weatherby Vanguard Classic Rifle
`Weatherby Vanguard Classic No. 1 Rifle
`Weatherby Vanguard Weatherguard Rifle
`Wichita Classic Rifle
`Wichita Varmint Rifle
`Winchester Model 70 Sporter
`Winchester Model 70 Sporter WinTuff
`Winchester Model 70 SM Sporter
`Winchester Model 70 Stainless Rifle
`Winchester Model 70 Varmint
`Winchester Model 70 Synthetic Heavy Varmint Rifle
`Winchester Model 70 DBM Rifle
`Winchester Model 70 DBM-S Rifle
`Winchester Model 70 Featherweight
`Winchester Model 70 Featherweight WinTuff
`Winchester Model 70 Featherweight Classic
`Winchester Model 70 Lightweight Rifle
`Winchester Ranger Rifle
`Winchester Model 70 Super Express Magnum
`Winchester Model 70 Super Grade
`Winchester Model 70 Custom Sharpshooter
`Winchester Model 70 Custom Sporting Sharpshooter Rifle

`Centerfire Rifles--Single Shot

`Armsport 1866 Sharps Rifle, Carbine
`Brown Model One Single Shot Rifle
`Browning Model 1885 Single Shot Rifle
`Dakota Single Shot Rifle
`Desert Industries G-90 Single Shot Rifle
`Harrington & Richardson Ultra Varmint Rifle
`Model 1885 High Wall Rifle
`Navy Arms Rolling Block Buffalo Rifle
`Navy Arms #2 Creedmoor Rifle
`Navy Arms Sharps Cavalry Carbine
`Navy Arms Sharps Plains Rifle
`New England Firearms Handi-Rifle
`Red Willow Armory Ballard No. 5 Pacific
`Red Willow Armory Ballard No. 1.5 Hunting Rifle
`Red Willow Armory Ballard No. 8 Union Hill Rifle
`Red Willow Armory Ballard No. 4.5 Target Rifle
`Remington-Style Rolling Block Carbine
`Ruger No. 1B Single Shot
`Ruger No. 1A Light Sporter
`Ruger No. 1H Tropical Rifle
`Ruger No. 1S Medium Sporter
`Ruger No. 1 RSI International
`Ruger No. 1V Special Varminter
`C. Sharps Arms New Model 1874 Old Reliable
`C. Sharps Arms New Model 1875 Rifle
`C. Sharps Arms 1875 Classic Sharps
`C. Sharps Arms New Model 1875 Target & Long Range
`Shiloh Sharps 1874 Long Range Express
`Shiloh Sharps 1874 Montana Roughrider
`Shiloh Sharps 1874 Military Carbine
`Shiloh Sharps 1874 Business Rifle
`Shiloh Sharps 1874 Military Rifle
`Sharps 1874 Old Reliable
`Thompson/Center Contender Carbine
`Thompson/Center Stainless Contender Carbine
`Thompson/Center Contender Carbine Survival System
`Thompson/Center Contender Carbine Youth Model
`Thompson/Center TCR `87 Single Shot Rifle
`Uberti Rolling Block Baby Carbine
`Drillings, Combination Guns, Double Rifles
`Beretta Express SSO O/U Double Rifle
`Beretta Model 455 SxS Express Rifle
`Chapuis RGExpress Double Rifle
`Auguste Francotte Sidelock Double Rifle
`Auguste Francotte Boxlock Double Rifle
`Heym Model 55B O/U Double Rifle
`Heym Model 55FW O/U Combo Gun
`Heym Model 88b Side-by-Side Double Rifle
`Kodiak Mk. IV Double Rifle
`Kreighoff Teck O/U Combination Gun
`Kreighoff Trumpf Drilling
`Merkel Over/Under Combination Gun
`Merkel Drilling
`Merkel Model 160 Side-by-Side Double Rifle
`Merkel Over/Under Double Rifle
`Savage 24F O/U Combination Gun
`Savage 24F-12T Turkey Gun
`Springfield Inc. M6 Scout Rifle/Shotgun
`Tikka Model 412s Combination Gun
`Tikka Model 412S Double Fire
`A. Zoli Rifle-Shotgun O/U Combo

`Rimfire Rifles--Autoloaders

`AMT Lightning 25/22 Rifle
`AMT Lightning Small-Game Hunting Rifle II
`AMT Magnum Hunter Auto Rifle
`Anschutz 525 Deluxe Auto
`Armscor Model 20P Auto Rifle
`Browning Auto-22 Rifle
`Browning Auto-22 Grade VI
`Krico Model 260 Auto Rifle
`Lakefield Arms Model 64B Auto Rifle
`Marlin Model 60 Self-Loading Rifle
`Marlin Model 60ss Self-Loading Rifle
`Marlin Model 70 HC Auto
`Marlin Model 990l Self-Loading Rifle
`Marlin Model 70P Papoose
`Marlin Model 922 Magnum Self-Loading Rifle
`Marlin Model 995 Self-Loading Rifle
`Norinco Model 22 ATD Rifle
`Remington Model 522 Viper Autoloading Rifle
`Remington 552BDL Speedmaster Rifle
`Ruger 10/22 Autoloading Carbine (w/o folding stock)
`Survival Arms AR-7 Explorer Rifle
`Texas Remington Revolving Carbine
`Voere Model 2115 Auto Rifle

`Rimfire Rifles--Lever & Slide Action

`Browning BL-22 Lever-Action Rifle
`Marlin 39TDS Carbine
`Marlin Model 39AS Golden Lever-Action Rifle
`Remington 572BDL Fieldmaster Pump Rifle
`Norinco EM-321 Pump Rifle
`Rossi Model 62 SA Pump Rifle
`Rossi Model 62 SAC Carbine
`Winchester Model 9422 Lever-Action Rifle
`Winchester Model 9422 Magnum Lever-Action Rifle

`Rimfire Rifles--Bolt Actions & Single Shots

`Anschutz Achiever Bolt-Action Rifle
`Anschutz 1416D/1516D Classic Rifle
`Anschutz 1418D/1518D Mannlicher Rifle
`Anschutz 1700D Classic Rifle
`Anschutz 1700D Custom Rifle
`Anschutz 1700 FWT Bolt-Action Rifle
`Anschutz 1700D Graphite Custom Rifle
`Anschutz 1700D Bavarian Bolt-Action Rifle
`Armscor Model 14P Bolt-Action Rifle
`Armscor Model 1500 Rifle
`BRNO ZKM-452 Deluxe Bolt-Action Rifle
`BRNO ZKM-452 Deluxe
`Beeman/HW 60-J-ST Bolt-Action Rifle
`Browning A-Bolt 22 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Browning A-Bolt Gold Medallion
`Cabanas Phaser Rifle
`Cabanas Master Bolt-Action Rifle
`Cabanas Espronceda IV Bolt-Action Rifle
`Cabanas Leyre Bolt-Action Rifle
`Chipmunk Single Shot Rifle
`Cooper Arms Model 36S Sporter Rifle
`Dakota 22 Sporter Bolt-Action Rifle
`Krico Model 300 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Lakefield Arms Mark II Bolt-Action Rifle
`Lakefield Arms Mark I Bolt-Action Rifle
`Magtech Model MT-22C Bolt-Action Rifle
`Marlin Model 880 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Marlin Model 881 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Marlin Model 882 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Marlin Model 883 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Marlin Model 883SS Bolt-Action Rifle
`Marlin Model 25MN Bolt-Action Rifle
`Marlin Model 25N Bolt-Action Repeater
`Marlin Model 15YN `Little Buckaroo'
`Mauser Model 107 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Mauser Model 201 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Navy Arms TU-KKW Training Rifle
`Navy Arms TU-33/40 Carbine
`Navy Arms TU-KKW Sniper Trainer
`Norinco JW-27 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Norinco JW-15 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Remington 541-T
`Remington 40-XR Rimfire Custom Sporter
`Remington 541-T HB Bolt-Action Rifle
`Remington 581-S Sportsman Rifle
`Ruger 77/22 Rimfire Bolt-Action Rifle
`Ruger K77/22 Varmint Rifle
`Ultra Light Arms Model 20 RF Bolt-Action Rifle
`Winchester Model 52B Sporting Rifle

`Competition Rifles--Centerfire & Rimfire

`Anschutz 64-MS Left Silhouette
`Anschutz 1808D RT Super Match 54 Target
`Anschutz 1827B Biathlon Rifle
`Anschutz 1903D Match Rifle
`Anschutz 1803D Intermediate Match
`Anschutz 1911 Match Rifle
`Anschutz 54.18MS REP Deluxe Silhouette Rifle
`Anschutz 1913 Super Match Rifle
`Anschutz 1907 Match Rifle
`Anschutz 1910 Super Match II
`Anschutz 54.18MS Silhouette Rifle
`Anschutz Super Match 54 Target Model 2013
`Anschutz Super Match 54 Target Model 2007
`Beeman/Feinwerkbau 2600 Target Rifle
`Cooper Arms Model TRP-1 ISU Standard Rifle
`E.A.A./Weihrauch HW 60 Target Rifle
`E.A.A./HW 660 Match Rifle
`Finnish Lion Standard Target Rifle
`Krico Model 360 S2 Biathlon Rifle
`Krico Model 400 Match Rifle
`Krico Model 360S Biathlon Rifle
`Krico Model 500 Kricotronic Match Rifle
`Krico Model 600 Sniper Rifle
`Krico Model 600 Match Rifle
`Lakefield Arms Model 90B Target Rifle
`Lakefield Arms Model 91T Target Rifle
`Lakefield Arms Model 92S Silhouette Rifle
`Marlin Model 2000 Target Rifle
`Mauser Model 86-SR Specialty Rifle
`McMillan M-86 Sniper Rifle
`McMillan Combo M-87/M-88 50-Caliber Rifle
`McMillan 300 Phoenix Long Range Rifle
`McMillan M-89 Sniper Rifle
`McMillan National Match Rifle
`McMillan Long Range Rifle
`Parker-Hale M-87 Target Rifle
`Parker-Hale M-85 Sniper Rifle
`Remington 40-XB Rangemaster Target Centerfire
`Remington 40-XR KS Rimfire Position Rifle
`Remington 40-XBBR KS
`Remington 40-XC KS National Match Course Rifle
`Sako TRG-21 Bolt-Action Rifle
`Steyr-Mannlicher Match SPG-UIT Rifle
`Steyr-Mannlicher SSG P-I Rifle
`Steyr-Mannlicher SSG P-III Rifle
`Steyr-Mannlicher SSG P-IV Rifle
`Tanner Standard UIT Rifle
`Tanner 50 Meter Free Rifle
`Tanner 300 Meter Free Rifle
`Wichita Silhouette Rifle

`Shotguns--Autoloaders

`American Arms/Franchi Black Magic 48/AL
`Benelli Super Black Eagle Shotgun
`Benelli Super Black Eagle Slug Gun
`Benelli M1 Super 90 Field Auto Shotgun
`Benelli Montefeltro Super 90 20-Gauge Shotgun
`Benelli Montefeltro Super 90 Shotgun
`Benelli M1 Sporting Special Auto Shotgun
`Benelli Black Eagle Competition Auto Shotgun
`Beretta A-303 Auto Shotgun
`Beretta 390 Field Auto Shotgun
`Beretta 390 Super Trap and Super Skeet Shotguns
`Beretta Vittoria Auto Shotgun
`Beretta Model 1201F Auto Shotgun
`Browning BSA 10 Auto Shotgun
`Browning BSA 10 Stalker Auto Shotgun
`Browning A-500R Auto Shotgun
`Browning A-500G Auto Shotgun
`Browning A-500G Sporting Clays
`Browning Auto-5 Light 12 and 20
`Browning Auto-5 Stalker
`Browning Auto-5 Magnum 20
`Browning Auto-5 Magnum 12
`Churchill Turkey Automatic Shotgun
`Cosmi Automatic Shotgun
`Maverick Model 60 Auto Shotgun
`Mossberg Model 5500 Shotgun
`Mossberg Model 9200 Regal Semi-Auto Shotgun
`Mossberg Model 9200 USST Auto Shotgun
`Mossberg Model 9200 Camo Shotgun
`Mossberg Model 6000 Auto Shotgun
`Remington Model 1100 Shotgun
`Remington 11-87 Premier Shotgun
`Remington 11-87 Sporting Clays
`Remington 11-87 Premier Skeet
`Remington 11-87 Premier Trap
`Remington 11-87 Special Purpose Magnum
`Remington 11-87 SPS-T Camo Auto Shotgun
`Remington 11-87 Special Purpose Deer Gun
`Remington 11-87 SPS-BG-Camo Deer/Turkey Shotgun
`Remington 11-87 SPS-Deer Shotgun
`Remington 11-87 Special Purpose Synthetic Camo
`Remington SP-10 Magnum-Camo Auto Shotgun
`Remington SP-10 Magnum Auto Shotgun
`Remington SP-10 Magnum Turkey Combo
`Remington 1100 LT-20 Auto
`Remington 1100 Special Field
`Remington 1100 20-Gauge Deer Gun
`Remington 1100 LT-20 Tournament Skeet
`Winchester Model 1400 Semi-Auto Shotgun

`Shotguns--Slide Actions

`Browning Model 42 Pump Shotgun
`Browning BPS Pump Shotgun
`Browning BPS Stalker Pump Shotgun
`Browning BPS Pigeon Grade Pump Shotgun
`Browning BPS Pump Shotgun (Ladies and Youth Model)
`Browning BPS Game Gun Turkey Special
`Browning BPS Game Gun Deer Special
`Ithaca Model 87 Supreme Pump Shotgun
`Ithaca Model 87 Deerslayer Shotgun
`Ithaca Deerslayer II Rifled Shotgun
`Ithaca Model 87 Turkey Gun
`Ithaca Model 87 Deluxe Pump Shotgun
`Magtech Model 586-VR Pump Shotgun
`Maverick Models 88 and 91 Pump Shotguns
`Mossberg Model 500 Sporting Pump
`Mossberg Model 500 Camo Pump
`Mossberg Model 500 Muzzleloader Combo
`Mossberg Model 500 Trophy Slugster
`Mossberg Turkey Model 500 Pump
`Mossberg Model 500 Bantam Pump
`Mossberg Field Grade Model 835 Pump Shotgun
`Mossberg Model 835 Regal Ulti-Mag Pump
`Remington 870 Wingmaster
`Remington 870 Special Purpose Deer Gun
`Remington 870 SPS-BG-Camo Deer/Turkey Shotgun
`Remington 870 SPS-Deer Shotgun
`Remington 870 Marine Magnum
`Remington 870 TC Trap
`Remington 870 Special Purpose Synthetic Camo
`Remington 870 Wingmaster Small Gauges
`Remington 870 Express Rifle Sighted Deer Gun
`Remington 870 SPS Special Purpose Magnum
`Remington 870 SPS-T Camo Pump Shotgun
`Remington 870 Special Field
`Remington 870 Express Turkey
`Remington 870 High Grades
`Remington 870 Express
`Remington Model 870 Express Youth Gun
`Winchester Model 12 Pump Shotgun
`Winchester Model 42 High Grade Shotgun
`Winchester Model 1300 Walnut Pump
`Winchester Model 1300 Slug Hunter Deer Gun
`Winchester Model 1300 Ranger Pump Gun Combo & Deer Gun
`Winchester Model 1300 Turkey Gun
`Winchester Model 1300 Ranger Pump Gun

`Shotguns--Over/Unders

`American Arms/Franchi Falconet 2000 O/U
`American Arms Silver I O/U
`American Arms Silver II Shotgun
`American Arms Silver Skeet O/U
`American Arms/Franchi Sporting 2000 O/U
`American Arms Silver Sporting O/U
`American Arms Silver Trap O/U
`American Arms WS/OU 12 and TS/OU 12 Shotguns
`American Arms WT/OU 10 Shotgun
`Armsport 2700 O/U Goose Gun
`Armsport 2700 Series O/U
`Armsport 2900 Tri-Barrel Shotgun
`Baby Bretton Over/Under Shotgun
`Beretta Model 686 Ultralight O/U
`Beretta ASE 90 Competition O/U Shotgun
`Beretta Over/Under Field Shotgun
`Beretta Onyx Hunter Sport O/U Shotgun
`Beretta Model SO5, SO6, and SO9 Shotguns
`Beretta Sporting Clay Shotgun
`Beretta 687EL Sporting O/U
`Beretta 682 Super Sporting O/U
`Beretta Series 682 Competition Over/Unders
`Browning Citori O/U Shotgun
`Browning Superlight Citori Over/Under
`Browning Lightning Sporting Clays
`Browning Micro Citori Lightning
`Browning Citori Plus Trap Combo
`Browning Citori Plus Trap Gun
`Browning Citori O/U Skeet Models
`Browning Citori O/U Trap Models
`Browning Special Sporting Clays
`Browning Citori GTI Sporting Clays
`Browning 325 Sporting Clays
`Centurion Over/Under Shotgun
`Chapuis Over/Under Shotgun
`Connecticut Valley Classics Classic Sporter O/U
`Connecticut Valley Classics Classic Field Waterfowler
`Charles Daly Field Grade O/U
`Charles Daly Lux Over/Under
`E.A.A./Sabatti Sporting Clays Pro-Gold O/U
`E.A.A./Sabatti Falcon-Mon Over/Under
`Kassnar Grade I O/U Shotgun
`Krieghoff K-80 Sporting Clays O/U
`Krieghoff K-80 Skeet Shotgun
`Krieghoff K-80 International Skeet
`Krieghoff K-80 Four-Barrel Skeet Set
`Krieghoff K-80/RT Shotgun
`Krieghoff K-80 O/U Trap Shotgun
`Laurona Silhouette 300 Sporting Clays
`Laurona Silhouette 300 Trap
`Laurona Super Model Over/Unders
`Ljutic LM-6 Deluxe O/U Shotgun
`Marocchi Conquista Over/Under Shotgun
`Marocchi Avanza O/U Shotgun
`Merkel Model 200E O/U Shotgun
`Merkel Model 200E Skeet, Trap Over/Unders
`Merkel Model 203E and 303E Over/Under Shotguns
`Perazzi Mirage Special Sporting O/U
`Perazzi Mirage Special Four-Gauge Skeet
`Perazzi Sporting Classic O/U
`Perazzi MX7 Over/Under Shotguns
`Perazzi Mirage Special Skeet Over/Under
`Perazzi MX8/MX8 Special Trap, Skeet
`Perazzi MX8/20 Over/Under Shotgun
`Perazzi MX9 Single Over/Under Shotguns
`Perazzi MX12 Hunting Over/Under
`Perazzi MX28 and MX410 Game O/U Shotguns
`Perazzi MX20 Hunting Over/Under
`Piotti Boss Over/Under Shotgun
`Remington Peerless Over/Under Shotgun
`Ruger Red Label O/U Shotgun
`Ruger Sporting Clays O/U Shotgun
`San Marco 12-Ga. Wildflower Shotgun
`San Marco Field Special O/U Shotgun
`San Marco 10-Ga. O/U Shotgun
`SKB Model 505 Deluxe Over/Under Shotgun
`SKB Model 685 Over/Under Shotgun
`SKB Model 885 Over/Under Trap, Skeet, and Sporting Clays
`Stoeger/IGA Condor I O/U Shotgun
`Stoeger/IGA ERA 2000 Over/Under Shotgun
`Techni-Mec Model 610 Over/Under
`Tikka Model 412S Field Grade Over/Under
`Weatherby Athena Grade IV O/U Shotgun
`Weatherby Athena Grade V Classic Field O/U
`Weatherby Orion O/U Shotgun
`Weatherby II, III Classic Field O/U
`Weatherby Orion II Classic Sporting Clays O/U
`Weatherby Orion II Sporting Clays O/U
`Winchester Model 1001 O/U Shotgun
`Winchester Model 1001 Sporting Clays O/U
`Pietro Zanoletti Model 2000 Field O/U

`Shotguns--Side By Sides

`American Arms Brittany Shotgun
`American Arms Gentry Double Shotgun
`American Arms Derby Side-by-Side
`American Arms Grulla #2 Double Shotgun
`American Arms WS/SS 10
`American Arms TS/SS 10 Double Shotgun
`American Arms TS/SS 12 Side-by-Side
`Arrieta Sidelock Double Shotgun
`Armsport 1050 Series Double Shotgun
`Arizaga Model 31 Double Shotgun
`AYA Boxlock Shotgun
`AYA Sidelock Double Shotgun
`Beretta Model 452 Sidelock Shotgun
`Beretta Side-by-Side Field Shotgun
`Crucelegui Hermanos Model 150 Double
`Chapuis Side-by-Side Shotgun
`E.A.A./Sabatti Saba-Mon Double Shotgun
`Charles Daly Model Dss Double
`Ferlib Model F VII Double Shotgun
`Auguste Francotte Boxlock Shotgun
`Auguste Francotte Sidelock Shotgun
`Garbi Model 100 Double
`Garbi Model 101 Side-by-Side
`Garbi Model 103A, B Side-by-Side
`Garbi Model 200 Side-by-Side
`Bill Hanus Birdgun Doubles
`Hatfield Uplander Shotgun
`Merkel Model 8, 47E Side-by-Side Shotguns
`Merkel Model 47LSC Sporting Clays Double
`Merkel Model 47S and 147S Side-by-Sides
`Parker Reproductions Side-by-Side
`Piotti King No. 1 Side-by-Side
`Piotti Lunik Side-by-Side
`Piotti King Extra Side-by-Side
`Piotti Piuma Side-by-Side
`Precision Sports Model 600 Series Doubles
`Rizzini Boxlock Side-by-Side
`Rizzini Sidelock Side-by-Side
`Stoeger/IGA Uplander Side-by-Side Shotgun
`Ugartechea 10-Ga. Magnum Shotgun
`Shotguns--Bolt Actions & Single Shots
`Armsport Single Barrel Shotgun
`Browning BT-99 Competition Trap Special
`Browning BT-99 Plus Trap Gun
`Browning BT-99 Plus Micro
`Browning Recoilless Trap Shotgun
`Browning Micro Recoilless Trap Shotgun
`Desert Industries Big Twenty Shotgun
`Harrington & Richardson Topper Model 098
`Harrington & Richardson Topper Classic Youth Shotgun
`Harrington & Richardson N.W.T.F. Turkey Mag
`Harrington & Richardson Topper Deluxe Model 098
`Krieghoff KS-5 Trap Gun
`Krieghoff KS-5 Special
`Krieghoff K-80 Single Barrel Trap Gun
`Ljutic Mono Gun Single Barrel
`Ljutic LTX Super Deluxe Mono Gun
`Ljutic Recoilless Space Gun Shotgun
`Marlin Model 55 Goose Gun Bolt Action
`New England Firearms Turkey and Goose Gun
`New England Firearms N.W.T.F. Shotgun
`New England Firearms Tracker Slug Gun
`New England Firearms Standard Pardner
`New England Firearms Survival Gun
`Perazzi TM1 Special Single Trap
`Remington 90-T Super Single Shotgun
`Snake Charmer II Shotgun
`Stoeger/IGA Reuna Single Barrel Shotgun
`Thompson/Center TCR `87 Hunter Shotgun'.
«1

Comments

  • Options
    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    If we gun people could work together for a change, instead of fighting with, insulting and criticizing each other, about 42 million of us (that would only be half of the gun owners in the USA) would flood the offices of any idiot legislators who propose or support such worthless laws. Most legislators have come to love their privileged position and if that position was seriously threatened by, say, 42 million complaints from gun owners, those worthless legislators would quickly crawl back into their hole from which they came.

    But sadly, instead of us taking such concentrated and effective action, all we will do will be to discuss it, argue about it, rant on and on how it violates the constitution (it does, but that won't stop them) and find and/or create enemies from among our fellow gun owners who have a different view of EXACTLY what should be done.

    Watch and observe my predictions come true.
  • Options
    WerwolfWerwolf Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If the communist liberal democratic party gets elected to the presidency and takes control of congress, we are under absolutely no obligation to cooperate with ANY un-Constitutional and illegal legislation that would ban any firearms whatsoever, we have every right to own what we like within reason and if it takes a civil war to achieve then so be it. The democrats see fit to afford rights for baby murderers and queers, but wont allow gun owners to have firearms or the selection thereof which is astronomically stupid and beyond comprehension. Like I have said in another post I and several others which are growing in numbers will absolutely not follow these communist and totalitarian laws and neither should you and if you do you are empowering them by doing nothing, the more people revolt the better, if they want civil war then lets oblige them.
  • Options
    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Well, to my happy surprise my prediction of us gun owners arguing,insulting, etc. did not happen. Maybe there is hope we can find a way to work together because all we really have is each other.
  • Options
    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Wolverine
    If the communist liberal democratic party gets elected to the presidency and takes control of congress, we are under absolutely no obligation to cooperate with ANY un-Constitutional and illegal legislation that would ban any firearms whatsoever, we have every right to own what we like within reason and if it takes a civil war to achieve then so be it. The democrats see fit to afford rights for baby murderers and queers, but wont allow gun owners to have firearms or the selection thereof which is astronomically stupid and beyond comprehension. Like I have said in another post I and several others which are growing in numbers will absolutely not follow these communist and totalitarian laws and neither should you and if you do you are empowering them by doing nothing, the more people revolt the better, if they want civil war then lets oblige them.


    What you claim has a lot of truth to it, but I am bothered by how quickly and easily you welcome civil war. Wouldn't it make more sense to "go to war" against our enemies by better use of the courts, swaying public opinion to our side, forcing through legislation favorable to our side, etc? If you have no concern for yourself, what about your loved ones who depend on you? Would you quickly and willingly plop those loved ones down in the middle of some third world country that could barely function just because of your beliefs? Because if it comes to civil war here in the USA, for awhile anyway, that is what us common citizens will be living in.

    To my knowledge, never in modern times have more than a few million gun owners and constitutional supporters combined their might and focused it on anti-constitutional politicans. Before we welcome a shooting war between us and our government, shouldn't we at least first try and unite even 1/4 of America's gun owners (about 20 some million people)? Then try and use THAT force to get back our constitutional rights before we tear this country down the middle with a shooting war? A shooting war will always be there waiting for those who must have it.

    Or maybe some of my fellow citizens just want to have some excitement and actually be a participant in a shooting war instead of playing a video game.
  • Options
    trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    Well, to my happy surprise my prediction of us gun owners arguing,insulting, etc. did not happen. Maybe there is hope we can find a way to work together because all we really have is each other.

    Just give it time .
    Some are still in bed !
  • Options
    WerwolfWerwolf Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    quote:Originally posted by Wolverine
    If the communist liberal democratic party gets elected to the presidency and takes control of congress, we are under absolutely no obligation to cooperate with ANY un-Constitutional and illegal legislation that would ban any firearms whatsoever, we have every right to own what we like within reason and if it takes a civil war to achieve then so be it. The democrats see fit to afford rights for baby murderers and queers, but wont allow gun owners to have firearms or the selection thereof which is astronomically stupid and beyond comprehension. Like I have said in another post I and several others which are growing in numbers will absolutely not follow these communist and totalitarian laws and neither should you and if you do you are empowering them by doing nothing, the more people revolt the better, if they want civil war then lets oblige them.


    What you claim has a lot of truth to it, but I am bothered by how quickly and easily you welcome civil war. Wouldn't it make more sense to "go to war" against our enemies by better use of the courts, swaying public opinion to our side, forcing through legislation favorable to our side, etc? If you have no concern for yourself, what about your loved ones who depend on you? Would you quickly and willingly plop those loved ones down in the middle of some third world country that could barely function just because of your beliefs? Because if it comes to civil war here in the USA, for awhile anyway, that is what us common citizens will be living in.

    To my knowledge, never in modern times have more than a few million gun owners and constitutional supporters combined their might and focused it on anti-constitutional politicans. Before we welcome a shooting war between us and our government, shouldn't we at least first try and unite even 1/4 of America's gun owners (about 20 some million people)? Then try and use THAT force to get back our constitutional rights before we tear this country down the middle with a shooting war? A shooting war will always be there waiting for those who must have it.

    Or maybe some of my fellow citizens just want to have some excitement and actually be a participant in a shooting war instead of playing a video game.


    Actually I do not easily nor quickly welcome civil war, far from it in fact and I hope and pray that it will not come although I will stand by my duty and honor to the Constitution as did my Fore Fathers to defend and uphold the Constitution from any enemy foreign or domestic. The other means of trying to get the courts and lawyers to intercede has proven time and time again to have failed or to have been corrupted in such a manner that the ignorant sheep populace will go right along with whatever their "friendly neighbor hoods government" tells them and they believe it as well, the military is also included in this like it or not, as they use the same types of tactics as their overlord beast government paying no mind to the Constitution. If the government were all so concerned about our Constitutional Rights then that would have manifested itself by now, but it is always the same thing from the same types of politicians, just talk and no action at least none that true Patriots would approve of anyway.
    My concern for myself is that I am a Patriot that will do whatever is necessary to defend and uphold the Constitution from any enemy foreign or domestic, for without it there would be nothing but sorrow and tyranny.
    I could ask the same of you, would you endanger your family, well I would like to think not, as I certainly would not and would give my life gladly to defend them if necessary as any good Christian person would.
    Yes, a civil war would be bad and hopefully it will not go there although Patriots are not just common citizens and have an obligation to do what is necessary should it befall them at such a time.
    Thomas Jefferson said it well when he stated that:
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Even though it seems somewhat futile, apparently there may be a slight chance that these things might be worked out possibly under jurisprudence with allowance to our so called elected officials to actually perform their respective obligations and such to attempt to secure our rights, but only if our Constitutional Rights are not compromised in any way whatsoever would this be acceptable, I hope that it will be that easy, but from prior experience with these types I have serious doubts.
    I am quite sure that video games while fun are not playing any role in this very serious and possibly grave situation.
  • Options
    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Wolverine, your position is thoughtfully stated but until everything has been tried, I am not attracted to it. One thing I mean by trying everything else is to find a way to organize as many of the 84 million gun owners in America into a political "army" and focus and use that army to take back this county. With even half of America's gun owners working together, we could own this country. I can't think of a larger group of potential allies on any other subject than the 84 million gun owners that, to one degree or another, should care about their constitutional gun rights.

    Even without a constitutional right to gun ownership, with a potential of 84 million gun owners working together, we should still be able to own this country. And that organization of those gun owners has never be accomplished. The largest gun rights group in America has, to my knowledge, never done much more than barely make it to 4 million members. The second largest gun rights group only had about 650,000 members at last count. Then the numbers drop off from there with just a couple of other gun rights groups.

    The first step, if anyone was interested in getting those 84 million gunowners organized, would be to see some activity from the various gun sites. and to see numerous gun owners urging their fellow gun owners to find a way to join together and for once use some of that immense power we have but for some reason have chosen not to use. But instead all I see is a total lack of interest from gun owners from wanting to support any organization. Plus I often see infighting among gun owners when they should be spending their efforts fighting the liberal, anti-gun side.

    What surprises me is that with the 84 million gunowners, we have kind of a overwhelming "land army" that if used corrrectly could and would eliminate all our gun rights problems and probably other constitutional problems as well. Yet many gun owners, many of them right here, seem to want to fight a shooting war but do it as a "sea war" using a "Navy" that we don't really have. But we DO have a potentially huge "land army" (those 84 million gun owners) and to me that is our biggest, best and, most importantly, our FIRST source of strength.

    Until we find someway to at least try and use that "strength" I am not attracted to the idea of welcoming a shooting war with my government. One reason for that, which is not thought of much by those who advocate it, is that once that shooting war starts, if it looks like our government is loosing, then other nations armies, armies of our already existing enemies, will probably join in fighting against us.
  • Options
    WerwolfWerwolf Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have often thought the same that if a civil war does occur that our foreign enemies could very well stage an attack/invasion of our country in order to take control of the U.S. or whatever we possibly change the name to (preferably the C.S.A. acknowledging its change, however that is my personal preference and opinion).
    Like I said before if this can all be resolved peaceably and without compromising our beloved Constitution then I am sure that most if not all true Patriots would of course welcome it, but again we are under absolutely NO obligation to accept any illegal and un-Constitutional bans whatsoever no matter who tries to issue them as legislation, which would prove to be very foolish as that would promote the black market of banned weapons and people would just go through those channels in order to get what they want just as during prohibition.
  • Options
    jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    Gee fox, that alone should tell something about how worthless the NRA is. I prefer to keep my money from them and do my own no compromise lobbying. My reps probably have a list that I am at the top of. The NRA is worthless and it looks like 80 million by your own numbers, understand this.
  • Options
    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
    Gee fox, that alone should tell something about how worthless the NRA is. I prefer to keep my money from them and do my own no compromise lobbying. My reps probably have a list that I am at the top of. The NRA is worthless and it looks like 80 million by your own numbers, understand this.


    Who mentioned the NRA? Or are you just looking for an argument as usual? If so, where are your other * to help you by chiming in?
  • Options
    jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    Let's see...
    #1) Yea, I'm looking for a fight, putz
    #2) Don't need 'em to deal with a putz like you
    #3) As if you weren't referring to NRA when you quoted 4 million members. Man, what a putz

    Way to refute what I said. Defended like a true putz

    For you:

    "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands of those who feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams
  • Options
    rkba4everrkba4ever Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I see #9 needs no assistance from the rest of the brethren - he can clearly defend himself [:D] But I am sure he knows the rest of us are around should the need arise..........
  • Options
    WerwolfWerwolf Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Apparently it has already developed into a shooting war.
  • Options
    wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Who mentioned the NRA? Or are you just looking for an argument as usual? If so, where are your other * to help you by chiming in?


    I'm here tr, but jp did such a magnificent job leveling you, the only thing I had to do was sit back and watch from my ringside seat.[:D]
  • Options
    shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,242 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i always hate to start trouble...but

    were you invoved in the supreme courts recent decision on heller vs d.c.?

    i know you dont like the nra, but they alone fought the ban and set a minor precedent.

    one of you CAs even has in your sig line "supreme court votes 5-4 constitution still valid" sad, yes it is. where was the goa, jpwolf, highball, wsfiredude on that one. did YOU GUYS kick in money for the lawyers to fight that one, i doubt it.

    now i will here about you guys doing "other" things to help. yeah i bet you are doing a damn thing to help me or anyone else besides yourself out on this one. vote ron paul and think you are doing something. i would love to think like you that voting for him will make everything better, but i know better. the masses dont care what we think.

    the nra has the money and resources to fight for our rights.

    forget project excile and whatever you guys call the "veteran disarment act", what has the GOA done?

    i dont have a problem with drug dealers with a gun being held without bail because of a firearm involved.

    if a person has a firearm and doesnt commit a crime there is no problem right?

    any lawful person should be able to exercise his right to self protection

    man i am gonna catch heck for this post.
  • Options
    shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,242 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i enjoyed the posts about what feemind is doing about it, a group of people ready to go to save the constitution. he should network? with other groups in other areas to strengthen his group.
  • Options
    jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    quote:the nra has the money and resources to fight for our rights

    Yea, it's too abd they waste it on 1 million dollar a year salary for Wayne, huh?

    Here ya go....read this, then tell me what ya think,k?

    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=263795
  • Options
    shootuadealshootuadeal Member Posts: 5,242 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    its too long to read it all tonight, i gotta ge tto bed but i will read it when i get the time. tomorrow night probaly.

    could you please give me some CONCRETE evidence of what the nra has done to counteract the 2nd. a link or something, not the canary * opinion of it, to show me what the hell you guys are always are talking about.

    i like these forms but i just get sick of you guys trashing the only gun rights group that has a record of actually doing something. i have not seen anything contrary to the second out of them.
  • Options
    pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shootuadeal
    were you invoved in the supreme courts recent decision on heller vs d.c.?

    Were YOU involved?

    Since there were only 3 parties ALLOWED to be involved in this case, which were Heller, SCOTUS, and the DC government, I will ADMIT that I had NOTHING to do with this case. I am sure that the canary * will admit this as well.

    i know you dont like the nra, but they alone fought the ban and set a minor precedent.

    The NRA had NOTHING to do with fighting this ban. (thankfully) The three attorneys that were on the "District of Columbia v. Heller" case, were Alexandria attorneys Alan Gura, Clark M. Neily III, and Robert A. Levy of the Cato Institute, "who also personally bore all the expenses of the litigation".

    did YOU GUYS kick in money for the lawyers to fight that one, i doubt it.


    Did YOU?

    ALL three of these attorneys were working on a PRO BONO basis. NO ONE COULD "kick in" ANY funds for this case, even if they wanted to. Including you, me, OR the NRA.

    The NRA tried to STOP this case from going before the SCOTUS.

    The case was originally labeled the "Parker v District of Columbia."

    First, a meeting was set up on August 29, 2002 in a Cato conference room. Levy and Neily said the NRA representatives tried to talk them out of filing the case AT ALL.

    They refused to drop the case, and on Feb. 10, 2003, Levy and Neily filed the "Parker v District of Columbia" case. In a legal manoeuvre, usually frowned upon by attorneys, seven weeks later, on April 4, 2003, Holbrook (an NRA attorney) filed Seegars v. Gonzalez. (a very weak case) Followed shortly by Holbrook filing for consolidation of the two cases. In the hopes that BOTH cases would be thrown out, due to the weakness of the Seegars v. Gonzalez case. Holbrook's filing to consolidate was denied.

    Through the ongoing legal manipulations by the NRA attorney, which almost destroyed the "Parker v District of Columbia" case entirely, eventually leading to all but one plaintiff being removed from the "Parker v District of Columbia" case. Because of the NRA's filings etc., out of the original SIX plaintiffs, the ONE remaining plaintiff was Dick Anthony Heller. Even though they TRIED, the NRA didn't have the ammunition to shoot Heller out of the saddle. We all know what transpired next.

    Once the case came before the SCOTUS, the ONLY thing the NRA did was file an amicus brief, as did a "LONG LIST" of other organizations. Both pro and con.

    *******

    Before you try to defend the NRA, and attack members here for their stance. Maybe YOU should get YOUR ducks in a row first.


    what has the GOA done?

    I will not go into detail now, but suffice it to say that they have done quite a bit. You might want to line your ducks up on this organization as well, before you try criticizing them again.
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    codenamepaulcodenamepaul Member Posts: 2,931
    edited November -1
    You can't get half of the eligible population to do something as simple as vote! Now you want to get half the gunowners to vote in a particular way? Rest assured, the sheeple (gun owners included) need a wake up call. If that comes in the form of a civil war, so be it.
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
    Let's see...
    #1) Yea, I'm looking for a fight, putz
    #2) Don't need 'em to deal with a putz like you
    #3) As if you weren't referring to NRA when you quoted 4 million members. Man, what a putz

    Way to refute what I said. Defended like a true putz

    For you:

    "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands of those who feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams



    Your pitiful little keyboard (or perhaps your mind) seems stuck on the term "putz." And as I predicted, you will notice that a couple of your other * could not help but to chime in. That was predictable because that is how a childish gang operates. I have seen it many times.
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    wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    originally posted by trfox:

    Your pitiful little keyboard (or perhaps your mind) seems stuck on the term "putz." And as I predicted, you will notice that a couple of your other * could not help but to chime in. That was predictable because that is how a childish gang operates. I have seen it many times.

    'Childish' huh? It is interesting that would would choose to label those who support the Constitution 100% as 'childish'. It says a lot about you.

    Well, tr, I have a label for you. Since you seem to mock/belittle those who believe in individual liberty, and choose to align yourself with organizations that have attempted to undermine the rights of the people, I give you the label of traitor. That's right. I said it. T-R-A-I-T-O-R. I meant it, and you earned it, for you have proven yourself deserving of the title.[:(!]
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    jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    It would appear to even a person of lower than average intelligence, that my brothers addressed me, not you. Stroking yourself again, eh? Congratulations.

    And again, you address nothing from either my original post, or the second. It just sucks when your wrong, doesn't it? Leaves one with no reality based defense. Putz
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    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    If we gun people could work together for a change, instead of fighting with, insulting and criticizing each other, about 42 million of us (that would only be half of the gun owners in the USA) would flood the offices of any idiot legislators who propose or support such worthless laws. Most legislators have come to love their privileged position and if that position was seriously threatened by, say, 42 million complaints from gun owners, those worthless legislators would quickly crawl back into their hole from which they came.

    But sadly, instead of us taking such concentrated and effective action, all we will do will be to discuss it, argue about it, rant on and on how it violates the constitution (it does, but that won't stop them) and find and/or create enemies from among our fellow gun owners who have a different view of EXACTLY what should be done.

    Watch and observe my predictions come true.


    quote:Posted in Politics by tr fox, reference another GB member: "I think he is off somewhere undisclosed doing advanced infantry training preparing for the "big one." Either that or he overloaded his keyboard and it burned out on him."

    Hypocrisy knows no bounds when dealing with a collectivist-tool.[;)]
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    jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    yes, but the required modicum of intelligence required to realize one is making hypocritical statements, is completely absent here. I used to cut him slack because of that. But after his lack of trustworthiness was exposed regarding a friend, I have zero tolerance for his willfull ignorance, or for him in general. Class A putz
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    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
    yes, but the required modicum of intelligence required to realize one is making hypocritical statements, is completely absent here. I used to cut him slack because of that. But after his lack of trustworthiness was exposed regarding a friend, I have zero tolerance for his willfull ignorance, or for him in general. Class A putz


    Yep, that pretty much says it all jp.
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    wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ever notice how tr runs into the room and nips at the ankles, and then when his snout is firmly swatted, he scurries off.

    My hunch must be correct. He is an invertebrate.
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    pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK, enough with the name calling guys.
    This means EVERYBODY.








    I know, I fell of the wagon a while back, and I am not proud of that fact.
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    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pickenup
    OK, enough with the name calling guys.
    This means EVERYBODY.








    I know, I fell of the wagon a while back, and I am not proud of that fact.


    Spoil-sport.[:o)][:D]
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    Mk23Mk23 Member Posts: 127 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just like all the other AWBs in every single congress SINCE the sunset, it's been proposed by no more than 4 co-sponsors, and was referred to the same committee where it will probably be ignored, and die.

    It's no more of a genuine threat than Ron Paul's sponsored bills are any genuine hope of getting our rights BACK at this point.

    I'm more worried about SMALL bills that are named something else, or add-ons that are tacked onto unrelated bills. Something that might slip past.
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    RocklobsterRocklobster Member Posts: 7,060
    edited November -1
    quote:Just like all the other AWBs in every single congress SINCE the sunset, it's been proposed by no more than 4 co-sponsors, and was referred to the same committee where it will probably be ignored, and die.Let's hope that holds true after January, '09.
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    WerwolfWerwolf Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mk23
    Just like all the other AWBs in every single congress SINCE the sunset, it's been proposed by no more than 4 co-sponsors, and was referred to the same committee where it will probably be ignored, and die.
    It's no more of a genuine threat than Ron Paul's sponsored bills are any genuine hope of getting our rights BACK at this point.
    I'm more worried about SMALL bills that are named something else, or add-ons that are tacked onto unrelated bills. Something that might slip past.


    Unfortunately, this is true.
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    Mk23Mk23 Member Posts: 127 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It might also be important to note that the sponsor, and all 4 of his co-sponsors are REPUBLICANS.
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    WerwolfWerwolf Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah, that figures as both parties of politicians as well as the government and the military are as crooked as a dogs hind leg and dont care whatsoever about the Constitution and would kill us in a second or their own mother if they thought that it would benefit their position or their pocketbook. What we really need to know is what are our options as even I don't want to fight if I don't have to, but I will without hesitation and if it comes to civil war, but would prefer to just see if there is any slight chance of peaceable resolutions first.
    As much as I hate to say this and should wash my mouth out with shoe polish;
    even though there are some conservative republicans still in the congress or scheduled to take seat, since they are outnumbered considerably, are there any moderate democrats that probably wont go along with an assault weapons ban or other anti-gun legislation that anyone knows of?
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    Mk23Mk23 Member Posts: 127 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    As long as we make sure they get the idea that an AWB will be incredibly unpopular (like we did in 1994), the likelyhood of us seeing one anytime soon is slim to none.

    Obama's not going to be able to fix the economy fast enough for his supporters. You know the ones I mean, the ones that were holding Obama parties out in the streets and dancing and screaming all across the country. THEY don't have the attention span of a goldfish. A few months after he takes office, the economy will continue to get worse, and they'll turn on him.

    Obama KNOWS this. He's a liberal Democrat, but he's not an idiot. He KNOWS he can't afford to become unpopular to be re-elected, and he's GOING to be unpopular his first year, and there's nothing he can do to stop it. All we have to do is make it CLEAR that gun legislation will be unpopular, and we can stop it from even reaching his desk.
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    HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote: AWB will be incredibly unpopular (like we did in 1994), the likelyhood of us seeing one anytime soon is slim to none
    Kinda like the bail-out, ehhh ?

    97 calls out of 100 were against...the switchboard shut down at times.
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    Mk23Mk23 Member Posts: 127 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If Bush was up for Re-election, he wouldn't have passed the bailout.


    Don't get me wrong, Obama's going to try his best to * the 2nd Amendment, but he won't do it at the expense of his personal power.

    If it's clear that it'll turn his Presidency into a single term deal, he won't touch it. Then we just have to keep him from winning a 2nd term.
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    jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mk23
    If Bush was up for Re-election, he wouldn't have passed the bailout.

    Don't get me wrong, Obama's going to try his best to * the 2nd Amendment, but he won't do it at the expense of his personal power.

    If it's clear that it'll turn his Presidency into a single term deal, he won't touch it. Then we just have to keep him from winning a 2nd term.



    Good Lord, man! What does this have to do with Bush? CONgress holds the purse strings at the federal level, NOT potus!! Many many CONgress people were up for re-election, they were the one's getting the calls/faxes/emails at the rate 300 against to 1 for, they passed it anyway, and their majority was made larger in the election!!!!!
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    WoundedWolfWoundedWolf Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can someone please clarify... will this bill have to be reintroduced when the new congress begins in January?

    I seem to remember from civics class that any bills that have not been voted on by the end of the congressional term are basically dead and have to be reintroduced in the next term. Is this correct?
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    pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by WoundedWolf
    Can someone please clarify... will this bill have to be reintroduced when the new congress begins in January?

    I seem to remember from civics class that any bills that have not been voted on by the end of the congressional term are basically dead and have to be reintroduced in the next term. Is this correct?

    Yes.
    New congress, re-introduce same bills, new names (#s).
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