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quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Don,
If you think you will see this 'victory' you want you are going to be very disappointed!! You are thinking in 'ideal' terms, not 'real' terms. In the real world it just is not going to come to pass as long as you refuse to work with others to accomplish this goal/'victory'!!![V]
As long as you and your associates stay in complete denial you will help no one. But I guess this is a fact of human nature we can't deny.
FACT: To survive in this world we MUST evolve. Improvise, adapt, and OVERCOME! You will not OVERCOME the problems we are encountering if you refuse to work at it. Your ridged, non bending stance prevents this, thus you will lose your battle. Just look at history, don't take my word for it!!![V]
Jim:
When they take their eyes off the true goal, people tend to lose sight of it.
Accepting restrictions simply because they are reality today will ensure that they are reality tomorrow as well. I know damn well I will not live to see the day of what I believe to be ideal. If that ideal is not kept alive, however, no generation of Americans will ever see it come to pass.
What could possibly be wrong with criticizing the NRA and its apologists for heralding the Heller case as a great victory? It is a victory on one front, but a total defeat at the flanks. It did, as has been stated endlessly (and will be endlessly stated until corrected) codify licensing, registration, and type ban 'regulations'. This is exactly to what marc refers. The Heller decision simply reworded the 2nd to state that the RTKABA can not be denied in totality. It went on to say that it can be legislated out the wazzoo, thus the right has become a privilege, regardless of how Kennedy decided it should be written.
The best response of the court, given the end product, would have been to refuse the case. The D.C. ban would have been revoked as written by the appelate court, and these new 'Constitutional' legislative tools would not have been invented.
This is the perfect example of how a compromised solution sets back the cause. That, my friend, is reality, and way too many gun owners have refused to recognize it.
Actually there is a whole lot of sense, especially in the last two paragraphs above. Howeever, as so often happens, the logic isn't taken far enough. Had the Heller case not made it to the Supreme Court, another gun rights case would have. And since it is now likely that the Supreme Court will soon be packed by liberals thanks to Obama, it is a sure bet that we gun people would have been even more unhappy with the SCOTUS decision because we would not have gotten the decision that firearm ownership was indeed an indivdual right.. Under the circumstances, that single fact may be what saves gun rights in America. That simple fact put a major roadblock in the was for any politicians or political groups wanting to totally ban firearms. LIke it on not, argue about it all day, that roadblock was/is a major win for gun rights; especially considering how badly we gun people would have fared in another couple of years before the Supreme Court and a gun rights case.
Don,
I have NEVER lost sight of the goal!! But I did learn it will take MANY people of the same beliefs to achieve any thing close to this goal. And you will not win people over to your way of thinking by acting like a flaming AH, and treating others as AH's and as your 'inferior subordinate' as many do here![V]
1. I don't 'except' the restrictions. I keep working to lessen them. Hopefully to eliminate them.
2. The Heller decision is not a set back. Granted it did not go far enough. But the court can only rule on the SPECIFIC issues in the case they are considering. It will REQUIRE much more litigation to resolve these issues, which sucks, but this is reality![:(]
Don, reference the above. I am not referring to 'you' as an individual when I was referring to the flaming AH, but to the conduct of some here.[;)]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Don,
I have NEVER lost sight of the goal!! But I did learn it will take MANY people of the same beliefs to achieve any thing close to this goal. And you will not win people over to your way of thinking by acting like a flaming AH, and treating others as AH's and as your 'inferior subordinate' as many do here![V]
1. I don't 'except' the restrictions. I keep working to lessen them. Hopefully to eliminate them.
2. The Heller decision is not a set back. Granted it did not go far enough. But the court can only rule on the SPECIFIC issues in the case they are considering. It will REQUIRE much more litigation to resolve these issues, which sucks, but this is reality![:(]
That's, "accept" no?
You're only inferior because you choose to be; Keep your back straight and your eyes open only open your mouth half as much as your ears.
I do not 'reject?' your spoken "reality" of course we must obey laws to a degree if only to sleep at home.
I am beginning to see a pattern between you and tr, I believe there is a similar display in marrow density which is next to null.
plumber,
If you think so little of me why do you care what I think or say?
Do you just like being an Internet bully because you are somewhat inadequate in person??[;)]
For your comments to have any effect what so ever on me would require me to have some respect for you and your opinion, which I do not. If you can't act like a responsible intelligent mature adult why do you even try and participate in a discussion with those who are mature responsible and intelligent??[:)]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
plumber,
If you think so little of me why do you care what I think or say?
Do you just like being an Internet bully because you are somewhat inadequate in person??[;)]
For your comments to have any effect what so ever on me would require me to have some respect for you and your opinion, which I do not. If you can't act like a responsible intelligent mature adult why do you even try and participate in a discussion with those who are mature responsible and intelligent??[:)]
Sad truth is jim, you're in a lot better position by my account than 70% of most Americans. Simple reason being that at least you are fed by something other than msnbc, abc, pbs, cnn, nbc, fox, you are competent enough to reach out or to be reached out to on this here dandy forum and others I would assume. This here neu fangled internets is a very powerful tool, much more powerful than any steel weapon. I never said I didn't like you, I have in fact demonstrated that I see your views as being wrong. I don't know why you would conclude I am a bully, I have overcome my inadequacy by riding a cr500 sorry I aint intelluhjent enuff for ya LOL!111
Keep it real jim + stay informed. I suggest www.blacklistednews.com as a start.
plumber,
Well maybe because 'bullies' resort to insults and name calling to try and intimate those whom they disagree with. I do believe this the behavior you demonstrated above, is it not??
(My edit)
NOT singling you out Jim, just happens to be your post.
Name calling reference has been removed.
Discuss intelligently, or not at all.
This applies to ALL.
Comments
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Don,
If you think you will see this 'victory' you want you are going to be very disappointed!! You are thinking in 'ideal' terms, not 'real' terms. In the real world it just is not going to come to pass as long as you refuse to work with others to accomplish this goal/'victory'!!![V]
As long as you and your associates stay in complete denial you will help no one. But I guess this is a fact of human nature we can't deny.
FACT: To survive in this world we MUST evolve. Improvise, adapt, and OVERCOME! You will not OVERCOME the problems we are encountering if you refuse to work at it. Your ridged, non bending stance prevents this, thus you will lose your battle. Just look at history, don't take my word for it!!![V]
Jim:
When they take their eyes off the true goal, people tend to lose sight of it.
Accepting restrictions simply because they are reality today will ensure that they are reality tomorrow as well. I know damn well I will not live to see the day of what I believe to be ideal. If that ideal is not kept alive, however, no generation of Americans will ever see it come to pass.
What could possibly be wrong with criticizing the NRA and its apologists for heralding the Heller case as a great victory? It is a victory on one front, but a total defeat at the flanks. It did, as has been stated endlessly (and will be endlessly stated until corrected) codify licensing, registration, and type ban 'regulations'. This is exactly to what marc refers. The Heller decision simply reworded the 2nd to state that the RTKABA can not be denied in totality. It went on to say that it can be legislated out the wazzoo, thus the right has become a privilege, regardless of how Kennedy decided it should be written.
The best response of the court, given the end product, would have been to refuse the case. The D.C. ban would have been revoked as written by the appelate court, and these new 'Constitutional' legislative tools would not have been invented.
This is the perfect example of how a compromised solution sets back the cause. That, my friend, is reality, and way too many gun owners have refused to recognize it.
Actually there is a whole lot of sense, especially in the last two paragraphs above. Howeever, as so often happens, the logic isn't taken far enough. Had the Heller case not made it to the Supreme Court, another gun rights case would have. And since it is now likely that the Supreme Court will soon be packed by liberals thanks to Obama, it is a sure bet that we gun people would have been even more unhappy with the SCOTUS decision because we would not have gotten the decision that firearm ownership was indeed an indivdual right.. Under the circumstances, that single fact may be what saves gun rights in America. That simple fact put a major roadblock in the was for any politicians or political groups wanting to totally ban firearms. LIke it on not, argue about it all day, that roadblock was/is a major win for gun rights; especially considering how badly we gun people would have fared in another couple of years before the Supreme Court and a gun rights case.
I have NEVER lost sight of the goal!! But I did learn it will take MANY people of the same beliefs to achieve any thing close to this goal. And you will not win people over to your way of thinking by acting like a flaming AH, and treating others as AH's and as your 'inferior subordinate' as many do here![V]
1. I don't 'except' the restrictions. I keep working to lessen them. Hopefully to eliminate them.
2. The Heller decision is not a set back. Granted it did not go far enough. But the court can only rule on the SPECIFIC issues in the case they are considering. It will REQUIRE much more litigation to resolve these issues, which sucks, but this is reality![:(]
Don, reference the above. I am not referring to 'you' as an individual when I was referring to the flaming AH, but to the conduct of some here.[;)]
Don,
I have NEVER lost sight of the goal!! But I did learn it will take MANY people of the same beliefs to achieve any thing close to this goal. And you will not win people over to your way of thinking by acting like a flaming AH, and treating others as AH's and as your 'inferior subordinate' as many do here![V]
1. I don't 'except' the restrictions. I keep working to lessen them. Hopefully to eliminate them.
2. The Heller decision is not a set back. Granted it did not go far enough. But the court can only rule on the SPECIFIC issues in the case they are considering. It will REQUIRE much more litigation to resolve these issues, which sucks, but this is reality![:(]
That's, "accept" no?
You're only inferior because you choose to be; Keep your back straight and your eyes open only open your mouth half as much as your ears.
I do not 'reject?' your spoken "reality" of course we must obey laws to a degree if only to sleep at home.
I am beginning to see a pattern between you and tr, I believe there is a similar display in marrow density which is next to null.
If you think so little of me why do you care what I think or say?
Do you just like being an Internet bully because you are somewhat inadequate in person??[;)]
For your comments to have any effect what so ever on me would require me to have some respect for you and your opinion, which I do not. If you can't act like a responsible intelligent mature adult why do you even try and participate in a discussion with those who are mature responsible and intelligent??[:)]
plumber,
If you think so little of me why do you care what I think or say?
Do you just like being an Internet bully because you are somewhat inadequate in person??[;)]
For your comments to have any effect what so ever on me would require me to have some respect for you and your opinion, which I do not. If you can't act like a responsible intelligent mature adult why do you even try and participate in a discussion with those who are mature responsible and intelligent??[:)]
Sad truth is jim, you're in a lot better position by my account than 70% of most Americans. Simple reason being that at least you are fed by something other than msnbc, abc, pbs, cnn, nbc, fox, you are competent enough to reach out or to be reached out to on this here dandy forum and others I would assume. This here neu fangled internets is a very powerful tool, much more powerful than any steel weapon. I never said I didn't like you, I have in fact demonstrated that I see your views as being wrong. I don't know why you would conclude I am a bully, I have overcome my inadequacy by riding a cr500
Keep it real jim + stay informed. I suggest www.blacklistednews.com as a start.
Well maybe because 'bullies' resort to insults and name calling to try and intimate those whom they disagree with. I do believe this the behavior you demonstrated above, is it not??
(My edit)
NOT singling you out Jim, just happens to be your post.
Name calling reference has been removed.
Discuss intelligently, or not at all.
This applies to ALL.
This applies to EVERYONE!!!
Thread locked because of it.