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wisdom out of the atf
shootuadeal
Member Posts: 5,241 ✭✭✭✭
spoke to two of atf "compliance" agents in my region and and i asked both of them(at seperate times) if they were the people that are gonna come around to try to confiscate the guns when the government says its time. first one said "no,no,not me, i dont have enough firepower for something like that" with a laugh, he doesnt sound too interested in having anything to do with that.
second one doesn't think it will happen anything like that. his explanation is that in todays society so many people are starting to depend on the government more and more(true) and if they want to get rid of guns it will be as simple as, get caught with a gun lose all benifits you may be getting from the government. welfare, farm payments, social security, etc. also he noted that the government was trying to take over everyones 401k savings, well lose that too if caught with a firearm. he said he would resign if it came to that at least.
i guess it wouldnt be a big deal to me to lose my government payments, i can get by without my farm subsidies.(most of the time)federal crop helps when the crops dont grow.
i still dont have a whole lot of respect for what they do but i guess i am the one bowing down to them currently.
second one doesn't think it will happen anything like that. his explanation is that in todays society so many people are starting to depend on the government more and more(true) and if they want to get rid of guns it will be as simple as, get caught with a gun lose all benifits you may be getting from the government. welfare, farm payments, social security, etc. also he noted that the government was trying to take over everyones 401k savings, well lose that too if caught with a firearm. he said he would resign if it came to that at least.
i guess it wouldnt be a big deal to me to lose my government payments, i can get by without my farm subsidies.(most of the time)federal crop helps when the crops dont grow.
i still dont have a whole lot of respect for what they do but i guess i am the one bowing down to them currently.
Comments
The ownership of firearms will be deemed illegal, a turn-in date/grace period will be set with draconian prison sentences waiting at the other end for non-compliance; this along with the brand of not being able to hold a job, receive your government benefits, your pension, forfeiture of home, vehicles etc...
The vast majority will scramble and practically trample over each other to turn them in, in the face of such an eventuality.
The remainder/the resisters will already have been identified and they will systematically be targeted and eliminated, one way or another.
The only hope is that the 3% will step up and with liberty's teeth, do what can be done to resist, successful, or not.
This is the most likely scenario IMO and I do not feel it is too far off in the future. We will likely live it, or die by it, in our lifetime.
Decision time is fast approaching and the lines are being drawn more clearly every day..........Subjugation, or liberty.
Allow me to state that I do not believe them..carefully coached, Be my guess.
quote:i still dont have a whole lot of respect for what they do but i guess i am the one bowing down to them currently.
There is no dishonor in bowing the knee to tyranny, as you maneuver yourself into a position to strike a blow to the heart....just in bowing the knee in the blissful serenity that is for your own security....
For example...while in a Japanese prison camp, failure to obey instantly was grounds for being killed out of hand;
We are not far from that today.
That did not prevent the ongoing attempts to escape, by THOSE dauntless men...
I believe these people are called "lap-dogs".
-WoundedWolf
You bring up an interesting point. Withholding federal funding has been a favorite tool for eroding states rights. There is no reason to think it would not work on the individual level. They will go after our children of course. Turn in your guns or no school, no healthcare, etc,...
How many times over the last few years have we heard of Doctors asking children if there are guns in the home ?
Get ready !
The warning signs have been there for years .
You have just said the same thing I have been saying all along, but in your 'overly dramatic' way!!!![;)]
Senior Member
USA
1655 Posts
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 09:44:45 AM
HB,
You have just said the same thing I have been saying all along, but in your 'overly dramatic' way!!!!
I don't reckon you and I speak the same language..sorry.
I speak the language of individual freedom and responsibility.
You speak from a position of higher authority `benignly' guiding our lives with rules, regulations and laws that are designed to make us all secure.
I prefer the brawling, raw, invigoration of freedom;
You prefer the limited, structured, dead world of authority and control.
Sorry ..you dislike the tone of my speech....I dislike the content, tone, and direction of your speech.
I don't 'dislike' it, it's just different.
You have a tendency to over dramatize things a bit. It's quit entertaining though. I just like to be straight forward and say what I mean without all the 'play' on words.
As I said, many times I say the same thing you do, but with not as much 'flare'.[;)]
You can stop telling me what I 'prefer', as you have no idea what I do or do not 'prefer'!
You absolutely SURE that you are reading MY words..and not somehow confusing me with somebody else ?
Fact is...every Canary * is rather straigtforward...I hardly think any would somehow doubt where we stand.
I use words as others use a club..at least where anti-gunners are concerned.
I have no respect for nor patience with the enemy.
There is a difference in being 'straight forward' and 'in your face',
calling those who don't agree completely with you and your associates nasty names!!![;)]
HB,
There is a difference in being 'straight forward' and 'in your face',
calling those who don't agree completely with you and your associates nasty names!!![;)]
Do you mean, like this.....(your words)
"you are nuts, crazy, loco, smoken dope"
or "you don't have a clue"
or "living in a la-la land"
or "you are in total denial"
or "you are as clueless as the anti-gun crowd is"
or "Why don't you try and say something intelligent for a change?"
or "You are the cowards of this world."
or "If you keep shooting off your mouth you will be one of the first ones they 'take out"
or....or....or.....
Then this.....?
"I wish you would contribute to the discussion rather than rant and
make insulting and/or demeaning remarks
about those who don't see eye to eye with you."
Pot calling the kettle black?
Where did you get the 'nuts, crazy, loco' stuff????
By the way, I am human and far from perfect![}:)]
When you place your authoritarianism above the Founders....you get `in you face' from me.
None of you `we gotta have federal laws' types EVER address the issue.
That issue is...how the hell do we keep control of the federal government via the Second Amendment when you have capitulated to that government ?
I know how Trfox does it.....he merely observes that we cannot get strong enough to fight them ..and if somehow we DID get it done ..we that fought the war would SUDDENLY forget what we were fighting about ..and institute a draconian dictatorship FAR worse then anything being brought to us by the rotten corrupt sleezebags today.
Basic difference of opinion, as I see it.
One espouses freedom for the individual...the other ..strong central government...ordering you about at will.
You are on the wrong side. Expect MORE `in your face' from me. Every anti-gunner that dares to rear his/her ugly head gets the same, from me.
I will fight yours/NRAs agenda on every level I am capable of...and every man that listens and actually UNDERSTANDS will make America stronger...instead of steadily tearing Her down.
Very entertaining as usual![8D]
no state can exhist without the federal $$$$$....
what he did was immoral...it was bullying...and according to a lot of people who are a lot smarter than me, it was illegal, but it worked!...that is the bottom line...it worked...i`d bet it would there as well if it became an issue...
the one advantage you all have there is that it isnt compulsory to vote, thats why your lobby groups have so much power...here we have to vote, we have to or we get fined and can in theory at least,go to prison..but ive never heard of anyone going inside for refusing to vote, but lobby groups here dont have anywhere near as much power as they do in the u.s.a.
i`m always pushing and nagging and preaching to people that we have to get rid of compulsory voting...then we could have a pro gun lobby, and we would get change to the existing laws. the politicians know this, and have said its one of the main reasons why they wont get rid of compulsory voting, they said they dont want the pressure from lobby groups...just another fine example of our great "democracy" at work.[:(]
The Founding Fathers knew the dangers of having a strong and overbearing central government. They did everything they could to weaken the Federal Government and retain power in the states, where it belongs. But the past 140 years have been spent undoing those protections. Now the Federal Government runs wild over the states, trampling upon the liberties of the People.
-WoundedWolf
Sorry I don't buy it. There is such a thing as biding ones time and waiting until the right moment. Then those who are truely ready will band together. And they will do so without all yelling and nashing of teeth. They won't sound like rabid dogs looking for something to kill. They will simply be Americans with a undesirable task at hand. And they'll do it without all the dimestore novel retoric that I see here. I guess that either makes me a traitor or just to stupid to really understand. *L*
Kind of reminds of whats on the horizon in the next couple of years. All Hail Obamalama [:(][V]
Here we have assurances that the Founders were not `fanatics'.
Yet they put in there `Shall Not Be Infringed".
Today, we that read and understand those words are deemed to be indulging in "fantisizm".
We repeat those words that the Founders penned ..and we are fanatics.
Well...let me tell you what I believe.
I believe that two-hundred odd years of soft living and unceasing propaganda from the Elites has destroyed the manhood here in America.
I thing we are infested with Quislings, cowards, fellow travelers, and outright Beast-Lovers in this land of the `free'.
I think, when the `time comes', those people will shoot you in the back for a pat on the head from those in authority...an extra handful of grain.
I think that most will not even have the courage to do THAT...but will merely pick the phone up and report their `neighbor with the guns'...
They will do this because they consider that the Constitution and Bill of Rights mean WHATEVER the government and Supreme Court SAYS it means...never even bothering to think for themselves.
I think that THEY are the problem...not those holding the reins of authority.
Those in power could not last ten seconds without the help of the people named about.
Repeating those words is great but,
Get out of peoples faces, and stop shouting and spitting all over them and talking down to them!!!
In other words, stop trying to pick a fight with everyone who don't bow down to you!!![:(!]
And I do actually agree with a lot of what you say. But your delivery really sucks. But the message isn't worth hearing through shouting and insults.
Grow a pair or get away from me.
I do not allow fearful people to cluster about me in daily life...and I don't tolerate it here.
I am not a saviour...I have only a message from long dead men.
That message is and remains...government is an uneasy servent and terribly fearful master.
The means to control that government is weapons in the hands of well trained Citizens keeping a wary, beady, suspicious eye on every move made by politicians.
Those advocating allowing government the means to control the controller are aiding and abeting in their own destruction.
I will continue to call them what they ARE..and I expect I will continue to hear whining from those unwilling to admit those few simple facts.
I expect it.
CT, MA, and NH had bills that banned the sale and use of lead bullets but thankfully were defeated.
CA had some bills that failed that if they won would have required a permit to buy handgun ammo-register handgun ammo purchases and restrict private ammo sales.
Here in WA our legislature was working on microstamping but thankfully it never went anywhere---but you can bet all of these ammo issues will be back and there are no protections for it.
We can bear all the arms we want but they won't be worth more than scrap metal if you have no ammo to shoot in them--is also a good reason to be a reloader.
HB,, Your delivering nothing from long dead men. Your delivering your own message of intolerance. I may share your intolerance of the Government, but not your intolerance of my fellow Americans. And niether would the founders. You say grow a pair?? How about grow a heart and mind capable of understanding what others are going through, and compassion for their fear. You actually think EVERY citizen during the Revolutionary war was out fighting ? They weren't. Yet had YOU been there they would have been less than worthy in your eyews for anything. Undeserveing of freedom as you have said. And by the way, in case you haven't noticed, the government took control of the controler a very very long time ago. That ship has sailed. And at some point it will have to taken back. But that time is still a ways off. If it's not to late allready. But I am sure that at some point, arms will once again be taken up against the nation by it's citizenery. I am also sure that it will be ugly. God help us all when that happens.
One thing is for sure, in a post apocolyptic America, you'll make a hell of a warlord with your my way or not at all mentallity.
One does not decrease fear in other people by coddling, encouraging, play timing or
speaking in soft, smooth tones.
One lays out the facts and the weak and the fearful run under their beds.
I am concerned with and intend speaking ONLY with the best and the brightest..those that have completely understood or are capable of understanding the desperate times we live in.
All the arguing, all the posts, all the rebuttals are designed to stir the thought processes of those men. Just as their posts allow me to refine my own thinking processes.
The whiners, the complainers, the nra supporters, those that love government controls .they are merely the flotsam and debris one must trudge through to get to the gold nuggets buried out there.
I agree with the educational intent. That is why I respond. But I still think you are missing something here. Just because I approach the 'education' of those not yet completely behind us does not mean I 'love the government'.[V]
I LOVE my country but I do not trust my government! GOT IT????[?]
I divide people into two camps.
Those that understand that government has no authority...Indeed, IS BARRED...from interfering in the free movement of weapons in this country are in the camp supporting the Constitution;
Those that feel that government MUST...for the 'security' of the people...regulate, ban, make laws controlling..weapons in the hands of civilians are in the OTHER camp.
Naturally, you boys that advocate government control will indeed hate me. No surprise there at all.
I insist on a strong showing for one purpose; One needs to know the weak reeds that surround him/her.
I hope you, 45long, are not in my AO, either. You sound like just another mouth to feed and diapier.
Wrong AGAIN!!![V]
We 'boys' believe basic the same as you. But as 45 said, you seem to think there is no 'gray' area here, again reality you deny. MANY OF US ARE FED UP. I think it would be safe to say MOST OF US ON THIS SITE ARE FED UP WITH WHAT HAS AND IS HAPPENING TO OUR COUNTRY![V]
Why can't you understand and admit this. WE ARE NOT THE ENEMY!! We do not SUPPORT or condom what is happening. The difference between you and I (and many others) is we see the problem, but are taking a different path to address and TRY to rectify it. You simply 'preach' the gloom and doom!!![V]