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quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Obovisly you know very little about the logistics of war. For every one (1) who is under arms there are 15 to 20 in support.
You speak of modern war. You are totally ignorant of the Minutemen.
I will not do your research for you. Educate yourself.
Actually HB, it took more to support the troops then. Any comment about the 1/3 who did not support the Revolution as opposed to the 2/3 who did?
And get that boxcar untied and get to making it happen!!![}:)]
The Three Percent were active participants in the War of Independence, that is what "the 3%'ers" refers to -active participants , not that only 3% supported the cause for independence.
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
From- http://www.state.de.us/facts/ushist/revfacts.htm
By 1779, there were more Americans fighting with the British than with Washington!
There were no less than 21 regiments (estimated to total 6,500 to 8,000 men) of loyalists in the British army. Washington reported a field army of 3,468. About a third of Americans opposed the Revolution.
At Yorktown, the victory that won the war, Frenchman outnumbered Americans almost three to one!
Washington had 11,000 men engaged in the battle, while the French had at least 29,000 soldiers and sailors. The 37 French ships-of-the-line played a crucial role in trapping the 8,700 strong British army and winning the engagement.
From- http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/H/1994/ch3_p14.htm
Americans today think of the War for Independence as a revolution, but in important respects it was also a civil war. American Loyalists, or "Tories" as their opponents called them, opposed the Revolution, and many took up arms against the rebels. Estimates of the number of Loyalists range as high as 500,000, or 20 percent of the white population of the colonies.
Of a population estimated at 2.5 million??? Somewhat less than 3% even if you include the French assistance. Just a few links-I am positive you can find more.
Obovisly you know very little about the logistics of war. For every one (1) who is under arms there are 15 to 20 in support. [?]
I will say it again, do you honestly believe only 3 out of every 100 people supported the Revolutionary War? Give me a break, please!!![^]
If it only takes 3% what is stopping you all from making the changes you want to see made?? Do you have a boxcar tied to your *???[}:)]
You say above 1/3 opposed the war, then 2/3 supported it? Last time I did fractions that is 66.7%![:D]
I would suggest that I have forgotten more about the logistics of war than you'll ever hope to know, got the T-shirt you see. That however is not the point. The general premise is this. 30% each way was what I have read to be the case. 30% for/against/ambivalent. 3% actually took up arms with support to various degrees (I'm sure) from another 30% or so.
Knowing this, you may also know that it takes 10 professional soldiers to every "guerrilla" to even consider being successful. 1% would probably suffice, that being the case. Account for 10-20% (I think it would be higher) dessertion and we're cooking with gas my friend, They will not leave empty-handed (rest assured) VOILA-instant S-4!
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
From- http://www.state.de.us/facts/ushist/revfacts.htm
By 1779, there were more Americans fighting with the British than with Washington!
There were no less than 21 regiments (estimated to total 6,500 to 8,000 men) of loyalists in the British army. Washington reported a field army of 3,468. About a third of Americans opposed the Revolution.
At Yorktown, the victory that won the war, Frenchman outnumbered Americans almost three to one!
Washington had 11,000 men engaged in the battle, while the French had at least 29,000 soldiers and sailors. The 37 French ships-of-the-line played a crucial role in trapping the 8,700 strong British army and winning the engagement.
From- http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/H/1994/ch3_p14.htm
Americans today think of the War for Independence as a revolution, but in important respects it was also a civil war. American Loyalists, or "Tories" as their opponents called them, opposed the Revolution, and many took up arms against the rebels. Estimates of the number of Loyalists range as high as 500,000, or 20 percent of the white population of the colonies.
Of a population estimated at 2.5 million??? Somewhat less than 3% even if you include the French assistance. Just a few links-I am positive you can find more.
Obovisly you know very little about the logistics of war. For every one (1) who is under arms there are 15 to 20 in support. [?]
I will say it again, do you honestly believe only 3 out of every 100 people supported the Revolutionary War? Give me a break, please!!![^]
If it only takes 3% what is stopping you all from making the changes you want to see made?? Do you have a boxcar tied to your *???[}:)]
You say above 1/3 opposed the war, then 2/3 supported it? Last time I did fractions that is 66.7%![:D]
I would suggest that I have forgotten more about the logistics of war than you'll ever hope to know, got the T-shirt you see. That however is not the point. The general premise is this. 30% each way was what I have read to be the case. 30% for/against/ambivalent. 3% actually took up arms with support to various degrees (I'm sure) from another 30% or so.
Knowing this, you may also know that it takes 10 professional soldiers to every "guerrilla" to even consider being successful. 1% would probably suffice, that being the case. Account for 10-20% (I think it would be higher) dessertion and we're cooking with gas my friend, They will not leave empty-handed (rest assured) VOILA-instant S-4!
My point, which you can see from your own numbers, is it takes more than JUST 3% of any society to get involved to facilitate change, violently or passively![;)]
I will leave it to the non-combatants to worry about the non-combatants.
My concern is with those that will fight...and ONLY them. They represent the best America has to offer.
These men will fight if NOBODY supports them except that 3% .
As far as I am concerned..even a * in a wheelchair can take out one stinking Beast-Lover or Kings Man..and those that will not fight are not worth my time or effort.
I will leave them to people with more patience then I.
Perhaps I haven't made it perfectly clear;
I am only interested in talking to men and woman with the blood of the Founders still yet running through their veins. THOSE are the leaders of tomorrow...THOSE are the important figures of the future.
My only mission is to speak one word that will trigger the impulse to investigate FOR THEMSELVES the truth of these matters to these men and women.
Noting else is of the slightest importance.
i for one will not give up my right to protecting myeself from tyranny of government.many of our forefathers fought to provide the rights we have now, and gave us the rights to enable us to be able to keep it. its a worthy cause, one worth fighting for. I believe if they have the weapon and may turn it on us to remove our rights, we should have the right to the same weapon in order to defend our rights. no we dont need nuclear bombs as civilians or anything, but I wont ever give up my semi-auto. even with what we got were outgunned, but we got the advantage, too the ones trying to take our guns its only a job, not really worth dying for. to us its for our freedom and worth dying for.
3% 10% 30% MORE THE BETTER but low numbers can still make a difference, only 11% of America votes so maybe thats all we need, I know I could do it with 3% though.[B)]
quote:Originally posted by therockguy
i for one will not give up my right to protecting myeself from tyranny of government.many of our forefathers fought to provide the rights we have now, and gave us the rights to enable us to be able to keep it. its a worthy cause, one worth fighting for. I believe if they have the weapon and may turn it on us to remove our rights, we should have the right to the same weapon in order to defend our rights. no we dont need nuclear bombs as civilians or anything, but I wont ever give up my semi-auto. even with what we got were outgunned, but we got the advantage, too the ones trying to take our guns its only a job, not really worth dying for. to us its for our freedom and worth dying for.
Rock, I agree with you, this is why we MUST take a stand![^]
3% 10% 30% MORE THE BETTER but low numbers can still make a difference, only 11% of America votes so maybe thats all we need, I know I could do it with 3% though.[B)]
I guess many here don't get it. You can 'fight' with just one person, but can you survive and prevail? No you can't. The probably of surviving, let alone prevailing (winning the fight) without more than 3% of the people supporting the cause is VERY VERY VERY low. Once again, denial of reality on your part HB. [xx(]
Once again;
There will be PLENTY of people out there that will appeal to the 30% that will support the movement to take America back from the evil barsards that infest the highest levels of government/media/business.
Gather them takes no real effort, no real risk ..for it requires them to put little on the line. All they have to do is feed a fighting man now and again ..to not call the authorities when they see a group move across the back lot.
The REAL difficulty lies in inspiring that 3 %..to instill in them the bedrock beliefs that will NOT BE DENIED ..or shunted aside into paths of treachery or divergence into lessor forms of government then the Constitution.
THOSE men are the important ones. Those are the men I want my words to get to.
You, Jim Rau, are welcome to spend your time, your resources `winning' over that 30 %.
Naturally...the seeds of my own destruction lies in that process...for you do not support the Constitution as written ..and every man you `win' will be infected with your fatal disease.
Naturally, we are smarter this time...and the shooting will never stop until people that refuse to support the Constitution are driven out of this country.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
This is getting utterly boring.
Once again;
There will be PLENTY of people out there that will appeal to the 30% that will support the movement to take America back from the evil barsards that infest the highest levels of government/media/business.
Gather them takes no real effort, no real risk ..for it requires them to put little on the line. All they have to do is feed a fighting man now and again ..to not call the authorities when they see a group move across the back lot.
The REAL difficulty lies in inspiring that 3 %..to instill in them the bedrock beliefs that will NOT BE DENIED ..or shunted aside into paths of treachery or divergence into lessor forms of government then the Constitution.
THOSE men are the important ones. Those are the men I want my words to get to.
You, Jim Rau, are welcome to spend your time, your resources `winning' over that 30 %.
Naturally...the seeds of my own destruction lies in that process...for you do not support the Constitution as written ..and every man you `win' will be infected with your fatal disease.
Naturally, we are smarter this time...and the shooting will never stop until people that refuse to support the Constitution are driven out of this country.
Well I will try to gather as much support for the cause as I can, and I will not hesitate to fight violently for my and YOUR rights.[:D]
So you believe women should not have the right to vote, 'blacks' should not have the right to vote or be armed! The Constitution as it is written. We are not allowed to consider any changes in the 'world' when we apply it. So you have some real problems with the women and blacks having the rights which the "Constitution as written" denied. Or is it ok to 'select' which changes and interpretations you support. Some food for thought O' Great One!!![}:)]
WOW-Jim you just don't get it do you? You just gave 2 examples of the Constitution being altered to EXPAND rights, not diminish them. I, again, refer to the principle of prior restraint we discussed earlier. The Constitution was never intended to be used to diminish the rights of people-only the government. The several amendments that have been added are all in contrevention of this, save the rights to vote for OTWM (other than white male) persons. I happen to think that there is no "right" to vote, merely a privilege.Different post for another time.
You really, really need to educate yourself on how things were meant to be, how they should be, and how they can be.
He did SAY 'as it was' did he not???
Change is a necessary, and inevitable! To try and say ANYTHING/EVERYTHING applies EXACATLY as it did then is just pain ludicrous!!![V]
most of us are law abiding citizens, we simply need to stand together and protect that status. if i have to choose between slavery fascism socialism or communism of any form and death i will take death while fighting to preserve my freedom. this is what made this country. give me liberty or give me death.
Comments
quote:Obovisly you know very little about the logistics of war. For every one (1) who is under arms there are 15 to 20 in support.
You speak of modern war. You are totally ignorant of the Minutemen.
I will not do your research for you. Educate yourself.
Actually HB, it took more to support the troops then. Any comment about the 1/3 who did not support the Revolution as opposed to the 2/3 who did?
And get that boxcar untied and get to making it happen!!![}:)]
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
From- http://www.state.de.us/facts/ushist/revfacts.htm
By 1779, there were more Americans fighting with the British than with Washington!
There were no less than 21 regiments (estimated to total 6,500 to 8,000 men) of loyalists in the British army. Washington reported a field army of 3,468. About a third of Americans opposed the Revolution.
At Yorktown, the victory that won the war, Frenchman outnumbered Americans almost three to one!
Washington had 11,000 men engaged in the battle, while the French had at least 29,000 soldiers and sailors. The 37 French ships-of-the-line played a crucial role in trapping the 8,700 strong British army and winning the engagement.
From- http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/H/1994/ch3_p14.htm
Americans today think of the War for Independence as a revolution, but in important respects it was also a civil war. American Loyalists, or "Tories" as their opponents called them, opposed the Revolution, and many took up arms against the rebels. Estimates of the number of Loyalists range as high as 500,000, or 20 percent of the white population of the colonies.
Here's another good one.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761569964/american_revolution.html
Of a population estimated at 2.5 million??? Somewhat less than 3% even if you include the French assistance. Just a few links-I am positive you can find more.
Obovisly you know very little about the logistics of war. For every one (1) who is under arms there are 15 to 20 in support. [?]
I will say it again, do you honestly believe only 3 out of every 100 people supported the Revolutionary War? Give me a break, please!!![^]
If it only takes 3% what is stopping you all from making the changes you want to see made?? Do you have a boxcar tied to your *???[}:)]
You say above 1/3 opposed the war, then 2/3 supported it? Last time I did fractions that is 66.7%![:D]
I would suggest that I have forgotten more about the logistics of war than you'll ever hope to know, got the T-shirt you see. That however is not the point. The general premise is this. 30% each way was what I have read to be the case. 30% for/against/ambivalent. 3% actually took up arms with support to various degrees (I'm sure) from another 30% or so.
Knowing this, you may also know that it takes 10 professional soldiers to every "guerrilla" to even consider being successful. 1% would probably suffice, that being the case. Account for 10-20% (I think it would be higher) dessertion and we're cooking with gas my friend, They will not leave empty-handed (rest assured) VOILA-instant S-4!
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
From- http://www.state.de.us/facts/ushist/revfacts.htm
By 1779, there were more Americans fighting with the British than with Washington!
There were no less than 21 regiments (estimated to total 6,500 to 8,000 men) of loyalists in the British army. Washington reported a field army of 3,468. About a third of Americans opposed the Revolution.
At Yorktown, the victory that won the war, Frenchman outnumbered Americans almost three to one!
Washington had 11,000 men engaged in the battle, while the French had at least 29,000 soldiers and sailors. The 37 French ships-of-the-line played a crucial role in trapping the 8,700 strong British army and winning the engagement.
From- http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/H/1994/ch3_p14.htm
Americans today think of the War for Independence as a revolution, but in important respects it was also a civil war. American Loyalists, or "Tories" as their opponents called them, opposed the Revolution, and many took up arms against the rebels. Estimates of the number of Loyalists range as high as 500,000, or 20 percent of the white population of the colonies.
Here's another good one.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761569964/american_revolution.html
Of a population estimated at 2.5 million??? Somewhat less than 3% even if you include the French assistance. Just a few links-I am positive you can find more.
Obovisly you know very little about the logistics of war. For every one (1) who is under arms there are 15 to 20 in support. [?]
I will say it again, do you honestly believe only 3 out of every 100 people supported the Revolutionary War? Give me a break, please!!![^]
If it only takes 3% what is stopping you all from making the changes you want to see made?? Do you have a boxcar tied to your *???[}:)]
You say above 1/3 opposed the war, then 2/3 supported it? Last time I did fractions that is 66.7%![:D]
I would suggest that I have forgotten more about the logistics of war than you'll ever hope to know, got the T-shirt you see. That however is not the point. The general premise is this. 30% each way was what I have read to be the case. 30% for/against/ambivalent. 3% actually took up arms with support to various degrees (I'm sure) from another 30% or so.
Knowing this, you may also know that it takes 10 professional soldiers to every "guerrilla" to even consider being successful. 1% would probably suffice, that being the case. Account for 10-20% (I think it would be higher) dessertion and we're cooking with gas my friend, They will not leave empty-handed (rest assured) VOILA-instant S-4!
My point, which you can see from your own numbers, is it takes more than JUST 3% of any society to get involved to facilitate change, violently or passively![;)]
My concern is with those that will fight...and ONLY them. They represent the best America has to offer.
These men will fight if NOBODY supports them except that 3% .
As far as I am concerned..even a * in a wheelchair can take out one stinking Beast-Lover or Kings Man..and those that will not fight are not worth my time or effort.
I will leave them to people with more patience then I.
Perhaps I haven't made it perfectly clear;
I am only interested in talking to men and woman with the blood of the Founders still yet running through their veins. THOSE are the leaders of tomorrow...THOSE are the important figures of the future.
My only mission is to speak one word that will trigger the impulse to investigate FOR THEMSELVES the truth of these matters to these men and women.
Noting else is of the slightest importance.
3% 10% 30% MORE THE BETTER but low numbers can still make a difference, only 11% of America votes so maybe thats all we need, I know I could do it with 3% though.[B)]
i for one will not give up my right to protecting myeself from tyranny of government.many of our forefathers fought to provide the rights we have now, and gave us the rights to enable us to be able to keep it. its a worthy cause, one worth fighting for. I believe if they have the weapon and may turn it on us to remove our rights, we should have the right to the same weapon in order to defend our rights. no we dont need nuclear bombs as civilians or anything, but I wont ever give up my semi-auto. even with what we got were outgunned, but we got the advantage, too the ones trying to take our guns its only a job, not really worth dying for. to us its for our freedom and worth dying for.
Rock, I agree with you, this is why we MUST take a stand![^]
3% 10% 30% MORE THE BETTER but low numbers can still make a difference, only 11% of America votes so maybe thats all we need, I know I could do it with 3% though.[B)]
I guess many here don't get it. You can 'fight' with just one person, but can you survive and prevail? No you can't. The probably of surviving, let alone prevailing (winning the fight) without more than 3% of the people supporting the cause is VERY VERY VERY low. Once again, denial of reality on your part HB. [xx(]
We MUST use our S-5 wisely!!![;)]
Once again;
There will be PLENTY of people out there that will appeal to the 30% that will support the movement to take America back from the evil barsards that infest the highest levels of government/media/business.
Gather them takes no real effort, no real risk ..for it requires them to put little on the line. All they have to do is feed a fighting man now and again ..to not call the authorities when they see a group move across the back lot.
The REAL difficulty lies in inspiring that 3 %..to instill in them the bedrock beliefs that will NOT BE DENIED ..or shunted aside into paths of treachery or divergence into lessor forms of government then the Constitution.
THOSE men are the important ones. Those are the men I want my words to get to.
You, Jim Rau, are welcome to spend your time, your resources `winning' over that 30 %.
Naturally...the seeds of my own destruction lies in that process...for you do not support the Constitution as written ..and every man you `win' will be infected with your fatal disease.
Naturally, we are smarter this time...and the shooting will never stop until people that refuse to support the Constitution are driven out of this country.
This is getting utterly boring.
Once again;
There will be PLENTY of people out there that will appeal to the 30% that will support the movement to take America back from the evil barsards that infest the highest levels of government/media/business.
Gather them takes no real effort, no real risk ..for it requires them to put little on the line. All they have to do is feed a fighting man now and again ..to not call the authorities when they see a group move across the back lot.
The REAL difficulty lies in inspiring that 3 %..to instill in them the bedrock beliefs that will NOT BE DENIED ..or shunted aside into paths of treachery or divergence into lessor forms of government then the Constitution.
THOSE men are the important ones. Those are the men I want my words to get to.
You, Jim Rau, are welcome to spend your time, your resources `winning' over that 30 %.
Naturally...the seeds of my own destruction lies in that process...for you do not support the Constitution as written ..and every man you `win' will be infected with your fatal disease.
Naturally, we are smarter this time...and the shooting will never stop until people that refuse to support the Constitution are driven out of this country.
Well I will try to gather as much support for the cause as I can, and I will not hesitate to fight violently for my and YOUR rights.[:D]
So you believe women should not have the right to vote, 'blacks' should not have the right to vote or be armed! The Constitution as it is written. We are not allowed to consider any changes in the 'world' when we apply it. So you have some real problems with the women and blacks having the rights which the "Constitution as written" denied. Or is it ok to 'select' which changes and interpretations you support. Some food for thought O' Great One!!![}:)]
You really, really need to educate yourself on how things were meant to be, how they should be, and how they can be.
Change is a necessary, and inevitable! To try and say ANYTHING/EVERYTHING applies EXACATLY as it did then is just pain ludicrous!!![V]