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Need help picking an "assault rifle"

salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
My knowledge and use of firearms is pretty much limited to hunting guns, and a little bit about hand guns.
Figure now might be the last time for a long time when I can actually purchase a so called "assault" rifle. Would like to get something, but I no just about nothing when it comes to military type weapons. So what should I look for? What are some models that are appropriate? Want to keep it on the cheap side if possible (I have little money, Wall street gobbled it all up over night). I do not know if this is an issue, but I am left handed, and would prefer to have a left handed rifle(if such thing exists).
Thanks for any help.

Comments

  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Salzo;
    Am not an expert by any means...allow for that.

    That being said..I have used the AR-15, AKs, the SKSs, M-14S,and the Garands, the .30 Carbines.

    First define your purpose; Do you want a battle rifle, or carbine ?

    The defining line is perhaps the caliber...the .223, 7.62X39, the .30 carbine rounds are short range rounds.
    Special loadings will give pretty impressive ballistics to the .223...but need fast twists and single loadings with heavy-for-caliber bullets.

    The .308/30-06 class are the preferred rounds for the battle rifle.

    For my purposes, I find the FAL to be the premiere weapon of choice.
    (I shoot left handed, by the way)
    Parts kits can still be bought for a couple hundrd bucks..containing every part required to rebuild the weapon if neccessary. Locking shoulders are availible..or can be home built..to maintain the piece for a long time.
    The parts guns can be bought for 600-1000 dollars..lot of money..but still you are not talking SKS here.
    The SKS can be bought for 3 hundred bucks..but has a rather limited range. Too close a range for my liking....200 yards.

    After handling the STG varient, with the built-in bipod, the rest just like 2x6 planks, ergonomically.
  • codenamepaulcodenamepaul Member Posts: 2,931
    edited November -1
    First-define cheap. Cheap to me is about 2 or 300 dollars. for some cheap is 50. Reliability is a bigger factor. How much would you be willing to pay when the rifle does not go bang when your life depends on it?

    You can't go wrong with an FAL as HB recommends. I prefer the M-1A, but both are probably out of your range. I tip reliability to the FAL.

    Cheap-I would go with the SKS. Reasonably accurate, ultra-reliable, parts are readily available and inexpensive. Range is a limiting factor as HB says. Ammo is getting expensive.
  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the comments and suggestions. Lets say cheap is $750 max.
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    Obama will protect you from now on, no need to get EBR now.

    I'd go for something like this:

    http://www.impactguns.com/store/604206072252.html

    but that might be more than you're willing to spend, though I got my last 2 bushies for under $700 FTF.

    You don't deserve one. [}:)]
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 40,032 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    For $750 I personally would get an sks or AK47. My sks seems well built and pretty accurate. The drawback to an sks is getting a removable magazine setup that actually works. I put the 10 round fixed magazine back in mine and will see how it works. The AK47 is not the most accurate thing in the world, but if I was buying one arm this would probably be it. They both fire the 7.62x39 round which has an acceptable level of power. One could get an AR15, but that 5.56 round doesn't impress me much. One can get an AR15 in 7.62x39 but I would not do that myself. Just more expense and less reliability than an AK. Just my 2 cents.
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,895 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=256

    Or a FAL as was suggested.
    Reliability is not cheap though.
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • nyforesternyforester Member Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you really want an exercise and are serious about it, buy an AR-15 lower receiver, parts kit, and stock and build one yourself. This way you will know the working components and be able to repair it on the battle field (where it will be most valuable).
    These rifles are like a small block chevy....all interchangable and easy to work on.
    I would have never thought I could do it, but over the last 8 years have literally built over 20 of them for myself, family and friends.
    Go to www.ar15.com and see how easy it is.
    You can build a complete rifle for around what you want to spend.

    ......I played with the SKS/AK's....My opinion, stay away from them !
    Abort Cuomo
  • WerwolfWerwolf Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Since you referred to the bad word "assault rifle" for inexpensive rifles in this category, the SKS as suggested earlier is difficult to compete with and loading the fixed 10 round magazine is nothing and can be done as quick as changing a magazine on an AK47, although you only have 10 rounds, I have found that the removable magazines for the SKS are junk and never really function properly. There are also inexpensive AK47's available as well that perform their function as they are supposed to, both rifles use the 7.62x39mm cartridge which is extremely prevalent and have many accessories and parts available and are accurate within 500 meters depending on the shooter, despite the mythical 300 meter invisible barrier and are very capable killers and are relatively inexpensive as requested.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    Alright salzo, there is good advice up and down this thread. I would still like to add my 2 cents. I would say that for the money, the best rifle I have had was a norinco MAK90. It was very accurate, in spite of what is said about the AK type rifle and the 7.62x39 round. Now, after having this rifle I decided I would like to give the same round a try in an AR platform. I bought a COLT. Pile of junk. Was shooting 4 inch groups at a hundred. I even tried reloading to tune it, but the best load I came up with was no better than factory. Sold it. Still wanted to stay in 7.62x39 so next was a BWest AK47 "just as good as the Polytechs". WRONG!!! This one was WORSE than the COLT! 3-4 inch groups at 50!! Never bothered to back out to 100. Sold it, lost my *. Norinco MAK90 baby! My brother has it, no way I'll ever get it back. It is well within your price range, and the reliability of the AK platform is well known. Best of luck brother.
  • Lucky_LeftyLucky_Lefty Member Posts: 7,971
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nyforester
    If you really want an exercise and are serious about it, buy an AR-15 lower receiver, parts kit, and stock and build one yourself. This way you will know the working components and be able to repair it on the battle field (where it will be most valuable).
    These rifles are like a small block chevy....all interchangable and easy to work on.
    I would have never thought I could do it, but over the last 8 years have literally built over 20 of them for myself, family and friends.
    Go to www.ar15.com and see how easy it is.
    You can build a complete rifle for around what you want to spend.

    ......I played with the SKS/AK's....My opinion, stay away from them !


    I would love to do this but since I live in cook county there is a ban from owning assualt weapons.I have no Idea how to get a lower with out breaking the ban, the law says i have the right to bear arms but the ban says i cant. how do I pull this one off?
  • Nagant1934Nagant1934 Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have the perfect answer to your situation.

    Looking for cheap? Thinking of going the AK route? Go to "J&G Sales" on the net, or get a copy of "Shotgun News" where J&G often advertises. J&G currently has Romanian AK's for $379.95. That's as cheap as Iv'e seen. A good friend of mine bought one and he's very happy with it. They have other variants of the AK for more, but I don't know what the advantages to these would be. The Romanian comes with an extra mag and a cleaning kit. I don't expect these to stick around long now that people are buying these type of guns like crazy. I might just opt for one, because I can already see the next assault rifle ban coming. Joe Biden is probably orgasming at the prospect as we speak.

    Anyway, I think this buy is worth looking into

    BTW: If there is somthing out there you want to buy gunwise, this would probably be the best time to do so while Bam is still preparing his pounce on the 2nd.

    Just my 2 cents. Good luck.
  • WoundedWolfWoundedWolf Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Salzo, the question you should be asking is not "What should I look for?", but rather, "What can I still find?"

    I just bought a DPMS Panther A4 Carbine (AR-15) at Scheels yesterday for $850 ($937 out the door). As I was standing in line waiting for the cashier, three other AR-15s were being sold. My first choice was a Rock River, but everybody is sold out. My second choice was a S&W M&P 15, but again everybody is sold out.

    I am very happy with my DPMS, it is an excellent quality AR-15 with all the features I wanted, but it was my THIRD choice.

    But I do recommend going with the AR platform. I think for the price it offers incredible accuracy and tremendous potential for accessorizing.

    -WoundedWolf
  • gundad308gundad308 Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Salzo,
    Hey buddy, let me give you my take on you question:
    You say you are into hunting arms. That being said, the arguments for range and high accuacy apply less to you, specifically if you're shooting bolt action guns with high power rounds (7mm, .30-06, .270, to mention just a few, or any belted magnum rifle round). These give you range, power and accuracy. If you happen to be shooting .308, there are a few "assault" guns that shoot it, but they start at or above your $750 max. You might find an older sporterized FAL (with thumbhole stock) or maybe a used CETME gun in .308. There is an abundance of .308 military surplus ammo out there, relatively cheap. These are your best bet in all around performance if you only plan on carrying one gun. I hunt deer with my FAL.
    AR-15's(civilian designation for M-16) are good, accurate(in .223), range out to 300-400 meters although the small/light bullet loses it's punch out that far. Mine has the 20in heavy barrel although you can have it in a lightweight 16in barrel. There are many, many options availiable with ARs. Do some reasearch. They can be unreliable if not carefully maintained as they are engineered to tight tolerances. It takes a bit to get used to the operation, I learned in the Army. Get several 30rd mags. You might be able to find a used one in your price range. Alot of cheap .223 ammo availiable.
    AKs are blasters, reasonably accurate out to 100-150yds, the distance 95% of combat takes place in. The BIG+ on AKs is reliability as they are "looser" fitting guns. There are numerous stories of this, like the one of a tank driving over one, pull it out of the mud and it would still fire. Mine is a sporterized Hungarian with a thumbhole stock, bought in the 90's under the ban. Once again buy 30rd mags(maybe a 75rd drum) , alot of accesories availiable, alot of military "surplus" ammo in 7.62x39 (a lower powered 30cal) and 5.45x39 ( a 22cal similar to .223). The only thing I don't like is the lack of a last round bolt hold back mechanism. With my other guns I fire the last rd and a catch holds the bolt back, I can feel it and I know I'm out. With my AK I don't until "click".
    SKSs are good guns with similar atributes and ammo, to the AK, in a more trditional rifle form. In fact, the SKS technically doesn't qualify as an assault rifle, even under the gun grabbers' definition, as long as it's not fitted with a removable box magazine(they suck anyway). You load you ammo on 10rd stripper clips and push them thru the open bolt (held back after last round) into a fixed magazine, much like you would load your bolt guns. A great upgrade is replace the typical 10rd fixed mag with a chinese 20rd fixed box. I liked the one I had, but traded it in on my FAL(DOH!!). If I was organizing a civilian defense group (must avoid the "M" word, lest big bro O be lis'nen), I'd issue SKS because of their simplicity. 200rds of 7.62x39, in 10rd stripper clips in a bandolier, is alot easier to carry than a bunch of mags. This might be your best option.
    Do your research, shop around and choose wisely,
    Yours, gundad308
  • quickmajikquickmajik Member Posts: 15,576 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Ak-47 is a good rifle but I think the Galil is a better option If you must needs get that style of rifle. If you want A weapon that wont hender your mobility while allowing you to carry alot of ammo, the M-1 carbine with 30 rnd mags or a vector uzi are good choices. Both the 9mm and .30 carbine are also easier to supress then the 7.62x39 or 5.56.
  • chaoslodgechaoslodge Member Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    AR-15 kits are out there right now for under $600. You have to get the lower via an FFL but the rest is unregulated chunks of metal and plastic. Look around for an Evil Black Rifle Store. You might have to wait a few weeks for delivery.
  • gundad308gundad308 Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'd love to own a Galil(Israeli upgrade to AK, salzo), but they're so high dollar. An uzi-type gun, in pistol caliber, really limits you on range and power. They're a great backup if you're carrying a larger gun, but their+ is in full auto mode. Quickmajik's mention of the M1 carbine is interesting, although (30carbine ammo is kinda weak compared to the other ammo types mentioned before), it reminds me of a gun I forgot about, Ruger mini14. the mini 14 shares the same Garand action as the M1's and the M14, only an inch or two longer than M1 carbine, but chambered in the more potent .223(5.56mm). Yes, its more difficult to supress then the smaller calibers, if that's a concern.
    I was at a gun show recently and a new company(can't remeber the name) was selling their brand new AR clones for 7-8 hundred bucks, not bad. The real bargains were in the 50gal trash cans they had. I looked in and saw the butt end of several dozen used ARs in a variety of makes and models for 5 bills. DPMS, Bushmasters, Olympics, even a few Colts. Some were rough, some not so much. I was cash tight at the time, but DAMN I wish I'd had a few grand to blow.
    If portability is a concern, there are a variety of folding or collapsing stock availiable for many of the guns mentioned above.
    As Nagant1934 mentioned before, buy a copy of SHOT GUN NEWS. They've got about any option there is. Enjoy!
  • YoshiYoshi Member Posts: 35 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm surprised no one mentioned THERE IS NO SUCH THING as an ASSAULT WEAPON.
    It takes a person to ASSAULT, objects are just tools.
    YOU choose how to use that tool!
  • quickmajikquickmajik Member Posts: 15,576 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Yoshi
    I'm surprised no one mentioned THERE IS NO SUCH THING as an ASSAULT WEAPON.
    It takes a person to ASSAULT, objects are just tools.
    YOU choose how to use that tool!


    Shows how much you know newb, guns with clips that hold over ten rounds pick themselves up and go on rampages all the time!
  • gundad308gundad308 Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is no difference between mine and the "junk" melkor is talking about, except they are missing the parts that let the gun shoot fully automatic. The parts kit I built my AR with came from a military supplier's overstock. My FAL started as an Austrailian service rifle, add a civilian upper reciever, remove flash hider and bayonet lug and add the dubious thumbhole stock and you have a fine rifle, it just won't shoot full auto, which you can't hold anyway and it wastes ammo. Inability to fire full auto may make them "junk" to you, but it ain't neccesarily so. Even the Pre-1986 were semi only, unless you had a FFL and a tax stamp.
    Melkor, you take your shotgun, I'll stay 75 yards away with any of my "junk" pieces any day.
  • dan kellydan kelly Member Posts: 9,799
    edited November -1
    l1a1 fal..buy a parts kit from the auction side and assemble it yourself.they are cheap enough...well they were anyway. good solid rifle..308..reliable..rugged.drop it in the sand at a beach or desert and it will still work..well, at least the lithgow ones do/did when we were allowed to have them. i carried one for a long time when i fished for a living in case a shark was hanging around...and i carried one in the army until the "wise men [:(][V]" decided to change to the austeyr .223..a piece of plastic, go for a fal..you wont regret it.
  • chaoslodgechaoslodge Member Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by chaoslodge
    AR-15 kits are out there right now for under $600. You have to get the lower via an FFL but the rest is unregulated chunks of metal and plastic. Look around for an Evil Black Rifle Store. You might have to wait a few weeks for delivery.


    I am forced to retract that statement.

    I can't even find a stripped lower for less than $200+. Wait until the mania dies down a bit.
  • gundad308gundad308 Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dan kelly
    l1a1 fal..buy a parts kit from the auction side and assemble it yourself.they are cheap enough...drop it in the sand at a beach or desert and it will still work....i carried one in the army until the "wise men [:(][V]" decided to change to the austeyr .223..a piece of plastic, go for a fal..you wont regret it.


    Can't argue with that, dan, they're great guns. I own a sporterized L1a1 built off a surplus Aussie or Brit kit, from a service rifle, w/black pebbled plastic furniture. Recently bought a matching butt and pistol grip. I'm getting enough US made internals so I can "legally" put them on. Did Austrailian L1A1s come in the stocks I described or just in the wood? I'm trying to find the origin of my gun, Aus or Brit(upper reciever is civilian,Canadian).
    I originally wanted an M1A(civilian designation for M14) but couldn't afford one. I wanted a gun in .308 and "settled" for the L1A1 sporter and am the better for it. They are more dependable.
    How did you like the austeyr? I am attracted to the bullpup concept, and own a Bushmaster bullpup. I'll see an AUG(as we call them) at the gun shows and can't resist handling one, although the $2,000+ price tag precludes any purchase. They feel so compact and mobile with the short lenght and balance. The little 2x(?)gunsite seems it would be easy to use. I also like the idea of being able to switch out a heavy target barrel to a short lightweight barrel if I want. How well did it function in the "real world"?
  • dan kellydan kelly Member Posts: 9,799
    edited November -1
    gundad..they came with all wood...great rifles..the ones we had were made here at the small arms factory at lithgow..

    the aussteyrs are no good in jungle/tropical conditions..they jam big time...always cleaning the damn things!!..and i was on the range the day one was continually fired...one magazine after another...imagine the final battle scene in "platoon"...in conditions like that where your just firing and firing without thinking the damn things will melt!!..when the government wer told about it they refused to scrap them...and the top brass made it a court martial offence to fire them too much [V][V][xx(][xx(]...no thanks...i didnt resign on the dotted line...and that was one of the reasons.

    the civilian version might be ok..but as a military rifle i would`nt have one as a gift!
  • gundad308gundad308 Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Dan. I was just curious about the austyers. Sometimes things don't work out as well as they seem to on paper.
    The M-16 was the only rifle I had when I was in the USArmy, and you've probably heard or read the litany of problems they had with them. I have an older brother-in-law who did 2 tours in VietNam as a Marine. They used to issue a couple M14s per squad, after the M16 was issued to most, in a machine gun type mission. He said those M14s saved their butts several times. Eventually Department of Defense had the chambers chrome lined and other things and they're still around 40yrs later.
    I was in about 5yrs after 'Nam(late '70s) and the only jam I had was in training. We'd been firing blanks for days in the field and that gun was so fouled. Of course I never saw any real action, so who knows for sure. I've heard they originally were engineered to such tight tolerances that any foreign object would screw it up.
    I own a civilian AR15(M16), AK47 type gun and the L1A1. My AK fits so loose you can shake it and hear the parts moving inside. I guess that's why they don't jam, there's extra room inside. The only drawbacks on the L1A1 is it seems sooooo damn heavy compared to the other 2 guns. I drag it around the woods on deer hunts. By late afternnon it seems to weigh a ton! Also, 100rds of .308(7.62x51) is noticeably heavier than 100rnds of .223 or 7.62x39. All three have +/-s. They all seem pretty reliable, but I won't know for sure until the dooo hits the fan. At least I have options. Hopefully your gov't will wake up and give guys the same soon. G'day
  • poackleypoackley Member Posts: 48 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you are left handed, look at the Stag in left hand. Have sold many and they have a life time warranty. They have a MOA of 1/2. They are about 1K and you can get them in 5.56 and 6.8. They are great quality and the company stands behind the product.
  • OMMEGAOMMEGA Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    SORRY! Your too late!

    The price went way up this last election!

    IF you have about $1,000 and can wait about 10 months you may want to place a order for an AR-10.............(308cal ar-15)

    That would be my choice as a weapon that if I had just one gun to buy.

    Good luck trying to find one this late in the game.
  • therockguytherockguy Member Posts: 61 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ive got a russian sks, with a 30 rnd mag, the stripper clips wont work with it yet( im working on it) its a steel mag and functions very well now. i had to play with the lips alot to avoid double feeds. its kinda one. i bought a polymer one from pro mag, will not currently feed my fmj surp from romania, its just barely too long works fine with hollow points from wolf.. paid 320 matching numbers perfect bore rifling, excellent accuracy, 200 yds max. I really like it. you can find info too modifie it for use of ak mags, if anyone knows anything about that i hope too hear. more accurate than ak but lower rate of fire, perfect i cant afford that much ammo, geuss ill have to aim.
  • riflemikeriflemike Member Posts: 10,599
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MT357
    For $750 I personally would get an sks or AK47. My sks seems well built and pretty accurate. The drawback to an sks is getting a removable magazine setup that actually works. I put the 10 round fixed magazine back in mine and will see how it works. The AK47 is not the most accurate thing in the world, but if I was buying one arm this would probably be it. They both fire the 7.62x39 round which has an acceptable level of power. One could get an AR15, but that 5.56 round doesn't impress me much. One can get an AR15 in 7.62x39 but I would not do that myself. Just more expense and less reliability than an AK. Just my 2 cents.


    You can get a SKS-M for 750.00 Factory made to use AK mags no setup required
  • flat8flat8 Member Posts: 887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They are not "assault rifles". Let's call them military-style weapons, OK?

    I have experience with the FAL, AK, AR, M1A, and SKS. In .308 I like my FAL - although the M1A is great . . . and my AK is my true SHTF battle rifle. Just my opinion - shoot them all and make a decision.
  • jtmarine0831jtmarine0831 Member Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Where is DanceswithSheep! He will fight you to the death over the term "Assault Rifle"[:p]
  • YogsoggyYogsoggy Member Posts: 19 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I own a couple of AR15's an AK47, Cetme and SKS but the nicest "military style" rifle I have is my XCR carbine...

    ...But your left handed so buy a STAG arms AR15 in lefty configuration.

    Personally I most likely would choose my M1 carbine in most situations but I'm no lefty...in handiness or politics [:D]
  • dav1965dav1965 Member Posts: 26,540 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am left handed and i have an olympic ar-15, norinco sks, and a romanian wasr 10 ak-47. They are all reliable and accurate. It just depends on your preference. I have been shooting all my life and never used a left handed gun. Next im trying to get a 50 cal and then i think i will be set. Good Luck
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