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codenamepaul,quote:Yet if you read accounts of the skirmishes at Concord and Lexington, the British were not looking to confiscate rifles. They were searching for powder and shot. In addition, they sought cannon-owned by the locals- that were hidden between crop rows in fields to avoid detection. So, keeping with the founders intentions, your opinion is flawed in that the ability to "weild" is not the requirement, but "bear" as to actually mean-to deploy against.(In red above) Sounds somewhat like our new President's desire to regulate our ammunition, doesn't it?
Your contention is that "bear" actually means "bring to bear" then? That's something I haven't considered. In view of many of the remarks above, vis-a-vis our citizenry's ability to effectively combat modern-day military hardware, it seems that I may need to rethink my position. Even with portable anti-tank weaponry, an M1 Abrams is a formidable adversary.
Scott ;
Implicit in our belief that the Second MEANS what it says is the belief that the (so-called) Justice System needs overhauled.
Vicious animals MUST be removed..PERMANENTLY..from the gene pool.
Effective methods must be developed to remove corrupt judges, lawyers, and police...to regain the trust of decent people everywhere.
This has NEVER been JUST about the Second...even if most of the harping has been about the Second.
That one aspect is why I fail to see any method peacefully to effect the changes necessary to bring about the nearly total transformation of a couple hundred years of gradual drift to the insanity of government tyranny...yet again.
I think today we have the means to determine the truth from an individual...or, with a crash research program, have it within 5-10 years. Doing so without damaging the individual in any fashion.
A man duly convicted of a crime of animal viciousness ought to be hooked up to said machine...and given the chance to exonerate himself by telling the truth.
Even without the Star Wars "Truth Detector", I would come nearer trusting the Citizens of this country that are ON the scene of a crime to kill the right guy ..then I do present day `justice'.
I think we would have thirty days of bloody fighting in the streets. Then the thugs, savages, and various ghouls and vampires would get the idea that their day of freely roaming and killing was OVER...and it would again be safe to walk a street at night.
I think you would see two or three men walking the toughest streets of their towns at midnight..and killing the punks that came out to rob, rape, or murder innocent Citizens.
I would sit on their jury..and find them innocent.
These scum-bags would either get a job...or they would starve to death.
I firmly believe that we have an underbelly of savages in this country ..and they exist solely because they are a protected species by the Authorities.
They exist solely because they ensure ever increasing power for `authorities'...and ever decreasing freedoms for average Citizens..as yet more laws are passed to `protect us from evil'...
quote:Originally posted by Rocklobster
codenamepaul,quote:Yet if you read accounts of the skirmishes at Concord and Lexington, the British were not looking to confiscate rifles. They were searching for powder and shot. In addition, they sought cannon-owned by the locals- that were hidden between crop rows in fields to avoid detection. So, keeping with the founders intentions, your opinion is flawed in that the ability to "weild" is not the requirement, but "bear" as to actually mean-to deploy against.(In red above) Sounds somewhat like our new President's desire to regulate our ammunition, doesn't it?
Your contention is that "bear" actually means "bring to bear" then? That's something I haven't considered. In view of many of the remarks above, vis-a-vis our citizenry's ability to effectively combat modern-day military hardware, it seems that I may need to rethink my position. Even with portable anti-tank weaponry, an M1 Abrams is a formidable adversary.
If this is all the progress I ever make-it will have been worth it. To get one to think-not necessarily change per se, but think is the goal. The change comes as a result of applied logic and reason.
Highball, just one year of returning to public hangings of rapists, murderers, and such would affect a substantial decrease in such crimes. Of course a few innocent men might be executed initially, but severe penalties, strictly enforced in timely fashion, would quickly eliminate that. Witness the crime rates in other countries. We have our problems with the Muslims, but they do know how to handle criminals in their countries! They do not mollycoddle slimeballs under the guise of "fair treatment for poor, downtrodden victims of society."
Getting into the legal issues changes the topic, but we can hopefully all agree that the nation would be better off if most violent criminals (Muggers,Rapists,Killers,Robbers,Molesters,etc) were simply euthanized somewhat painlessly as it would not be cruel or unusual.
That said the right to Bear Arms in my understanding is a covenant between citizens. My understanding of it is EVERY man 18-75 is already a member of the Militia.
I don't think you should be allowed to vote if your not a gun owner. Everyone today male or female should be armed to a least the standard of a National Guardsman. 9mm pistol, M16 rifle or M4.
If someone can't be trusted with a machinegun then they can't be trusted to vote.
quote: don't think you should be allowed to vote if your not a gun owner. Everyone today male or female should be armed to a least the standard of a National Guardsman. 9mm pistol, M16 rifle or M4.
If someone can't be trusted with a machinegun then they can't be trusted to vote.
Well.
That is refreshing...I have been doing this a long time. I don't generally run across something that I haven't seen before, under some guise.
The Founders were pretty clear that they intended Citizens to take an active role on the security of their country.
How better to help ensure that this country remains free...then to make it a condition of exercising the franchise requires owning a weapon...or several ?
Naturally .the problem (ALWAYS problems) is that the gun controllers see no reason why THEY cannot own weapons...just the guy across the road shouldn't.
Still..there would be a goodly number that would eventually be driven mad by that evil black weapon crouching in the closet...just WAITING to spring forth to kill somebody.
They might well decide to do us all a favor and kill themselves...sort of a pre-emptive strike, as it were...
Still yet..the point remains,
If you cannot be trusted with a machine gun...you are also not fit to vote.
Mister soggy...I fully intend ripping you off, here...and using your statement freely and often.
"If you cannot be trusted with a machine gun...you are also not fit to vote."
Mister soggy...I fully intend ripping you off, here...and using your statement freely and often.
Feel feel to quote me, we might disagree on many things (political methods) but it's good we agree on something. [:)]
An Idea
I own over 40 Guns and I'm sure many of you own even more. If let say the Reds came over through Canada, or a Zombie outbreak (joke) were to hit us while our boys are out in the sandbox. What if an asteroid or meteor hit the US making Katrina look like a puddle? What if? How many people could we arm?
I could arm at least 40 men and women. Since we don't have an ideal situation and EVERYONES part of the militia whether they know it or not is it not our duty pick up the slack for others buy buying as many guns as possible? Just in case..
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Scott ;
Implicit in our belief that the Second MEANS what it says is the belief that the (so-called) Justice System needs overhauled.
Vicious animals MUST be removed..PERMANENTLY..from the gene pool.
Effective methods must be developed to remove corrupt judges, lawyers, and police...to regain the trust of decent people everywhere.
This has NEVER been JUST about the Second...even if most of the harping has been about the Second.
That one aspect is why I fail to see any method peacefully to effect the changes necessary to bring about the nearly total transformation of a couple hundred years of gradual drift to the insanity of government tyranny...yet again.
I think today we have the means to determine the truth from an individual...or, with a crash research program, have it within 5-10 years. Doing so without damaging the individual in any fashion.
A man duly convicted of a crime of animal viciousness ought to be hooked up to said machine...and given the chance to exonerate himself by telling the truth.
Even without the Star Wars "Truth Detector", I would come nearer trusting the Citizens of this country that are ON the scene of a crime to kill the right guy ..then I do present day `justice'.
I think we would have thirty days of bloody fighting in the streets. Then the thugs, savages, and various ghouls and vampires would get the idea that their day of freely roaming and killing was OVER...and it would again be safe to walk a street at night.
I think you would see two or three men walking the toughest streets of their towns at midnight..and killing the punks that came out to rob, rape, or murder innocent Citizens.
I would sit on their jury..and find them innocent.
These scum-bags would either get a job...or they would starve to death.
I firmly believe that we have an underbelly of savages in this country ..and they exist solely because they are a protected species by the Authorities.
They exist solely because they ensure ever increasing power for `authorities'...and ever decreasing freedoms for average Citizens..as yet more laws are passed to `protect us from evil'...
Don't get me wrong, I was not advocating vigilantism. My fear is that it would make it easier for gangs and whatnot to get the heavier duty firepower. Just a normal, legal, armed citizen running into a situation against that kind of firepower is just scary.
Granted, those kind of thugs believe in 'spray and pray' but it only takes one lucky round to ruin your whole day. I think we all agree that someone who is responsible is going to try to make each round count and not going to just 'spray and pray'. With more gangs like MS13 and other South America gangs setting up shop here I fear what it would be like with these guys running around with a 5.56 grenade launcher over under. Many of these gangs have no ties to where they set up. They just don't care.
Do you really see any situation where justice starts to prevail without a blood bath in the streets? This isn't about becoming a vigilante. I am thinking in terms of being armed, but so lightly by comparison you may as well have brought a knife to a gun fight.
On the other hand...I have the right to walk down any street in America, any time of the day or night without fearing for my life.
Thugs, rapists, murderers and other assorted human debris do NOT have a Right to their preying on decent Citizens.
Your use of the word `vigilante' indicates a strong bias against a Citizen protecting himself..a product of generations of government propaganda.
We have, in this country, a HUGE `underground' of savages...truly evil individuals that the government sees fit to turn back out on a daily basis.
I see those animals as being a deadly threat to decent Citizens everywhere, in the event of any major shift in governmental controls.
I would EXPECT and DEMAND that the government move swiftly and surely to lessen the impact of animals arming themselves, in the event of regaining the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
In other words..were a gang such as MS13 arise and become a threat..they would be WIPED OUT TO THE LAST MAN. That would happen by the governments doing...or armed Citizens would do so.
As always..I would never expect..nor WANT..the government poking its nose in everybody's business.
Therefore...you better be prepared to resist evil all by yourself.
Your use of the word `vigilante' indicates a strong bias against a Citizen protecting himself..a product of generations of government propaganda.
I don't always communicate clearly. I feel we should all be able to defend ourselves and have no problem with that. I have no problem with someone using deadly force if the situation calls for it.
I don't see the government doing it's job to get the thugs off the streets. If it is to happen it would have to be via vigilante action. The government ain't gonna do it. THAT is what makes me nervous.
I trust the Citizens of this country more then I trust the government.
That simple.
There is one simple reason for that. I can reach the Citizen down the street. The government, at best, merely ignores you...and at worst,murders you...unreachable, unaccountable, without mercy.
Part of the demand for a return to Constitutional principles is the demand for accountablity by government. One of the few tasks they have is a strict order for speedy, fair justice. THEY HAVE FAILED MISERABLY.
I would classify arms as any thing that could be used as a weapon. I dont have any problem with somebody owning full autos or explosives or even a mortar, but I think that once you reach up to missiles and nuclear matter, the companies selling it, not the gov't should have some guidelines for them. I mean, if you have the money to buy a guided missile, you have the money to jump through hoops to get it anyway.
quote:I could arm at least 40 men and women. Since we don't have an ideal situation and EVERYONES part of the militia whether they know it or not is it not our duty pick up the slack for others buy buying as many guns as possible? Just in case..
This is what an American would do.
The fight for freedom will be long, and the difficulties may well be insurmountable.
One of the criteria I use in judging people is just this idea... as stated and exactly as stated.
While I would never hand out a weapon like it was a phamplet...to just anybody...arming fighters makes great good sense.
Comments
Your contention is that "bear" actually means "bring to bear" then? That's something I haven't considered. In view of many of the remarks above, vis-a-vis our citizenry's ability to effectively combat modern-day military hardware, it seems that I may need to rethink my position. Even with portable anti-tank weaponry, an M1 Abrams is a formidable adversary.
Implicit in our belief that the Second MEANS what it says is the belief that the (so-called) Justice System needs overhauled.
Vicious animals MUST be removed..PERMANENTLY..from the gene pool.
Effective methods must be developed to remove corrupt judges, lawyers, and police...to regain the trust of decent people everywhere.
This has NEVER been JUST about the Second...even if most of the harping has been about the Second.
That one aspect is why I fail to see any method peacefully to effect the changes necessary to bring about the nearly total transformation of a couple hundred years of gradual drift to the insanity of government tyranny...yet again.
I think today we have the means to determine the truth from an individual...or, with a crash research program, have it within 5-10 years. Doing so without damaging the individual in any fashion.
A man duly convicted of a crime of animal viciousness ought to be hooked up to said machine...and given the chance to exonerate himself by telling the truth.
Even without the Star Wars "Truth Detector", I would come nearer trusting the Citizens of this country that are ON the scene of a crime to kill the right guy ..then I do present day `justice'.
I think we would have thirty days of bloody fighting in the streets. Then the thugs, savages, and various ghouls and vampires would get the idea that their day of freely roaming and killing was OVER...and it would again be safe to walk a street at night.
I think you would see two or three men walking the toughest streets of their towns at midnight..and killing the punks that came out to rob, rape, or murder innocent Citizens.
I would sit on their jury..and find them innocent.
These scum-bags would either get a job...or they would starve to death.
I firmly believe that we have an underbelly of savages in this country ..and they exist solely because they are a protected species by the Authorities.
They exist solely because they ensure ever increasing power for `authorities'...and ever decreasing freedoms for average Citizens..as yet more laws are passed to `protect us from evil'...
codenamepaul,quote:Yet if you read accounts of the skirmishes at Concord and Lexington, the British were not looking to confiscate rifles. They were searching for powder and shot. In addition, they sought cannon-owned by the locals- that were hidden between crop rows in fields to avoid detection. So, keeping with the founders intentions, your opinion is flawed in that the ability to "weild" is not the requirement, but "bear" as to actually mean-to deploy against.(In red above) Sounds somewhat like our new President's desire to regulate our ammunition, doesn't it?
Your contention is that "bear" actually means "bring to bear" then? That's something I haven't considered. In view of many of the remarks above, vis-a-vis our citizenry's ability to effectively combat modern-day military hardware, it seems that I may need to rethink my position. Even with portable anti-tank weaponry, an M1 Abrams is a formidable adversary.
If this is all the progress I ever make-it will have been worth it. To get one to think-not necessarily change per se, but think is the goal. The change comes as a result of applied logic and reason.
That said the right to Bear Arms in my understanding is a covenant between citizens. My understanding of it is EVERY man 18-75 is already a member of the Militia.
I don't think you should be allowed to vote if your not a gun owner. Everyone today male or female should be armed to a least the standard of a National Guardsman. 9mm pistol, M16 rifle or M4.
If someone can't be trusted with a machinegun then they can't be trusted to vote.
If someone can't be trusted with a machinegun then they can't be trusted to vote.
Well.
That is refreshing...I have been doing this a long time. I don't generally run across something that I haven't seen before, under some guise.
The Founders were pretty clear that they intended Citizens to take an active role on the security of their country.
How better to help ensure that this country remains free...then to make it a condition of exercising the franchise requires owning a weapon...or several ?
Naturally .the problem (ALWAYS problems) is that the gun controllers see no reason why THEY cannot own weapons...just the guy across the road shouldn't.
Still..there would be a goodly number that would eventually be driven mad by that evil black weapon crouching in the closet...just WAITING to spring forth to kill somebody.
They might well decide to do us all a favor and kill themselves...sort of a pre-emptive strike, as it were...
Still yet..the point remains,
If you cannot be trusted with a machine gun...you are also not fit to vote.
Mister soggy...I fully intend ripping you off, here...and using your statement freely and often.
"If you cannot be trusted with a machine gun...you are also not fit to vote."
Mister soggy...I fully intend ripping you off, here...and using your statement freely and often.
Feel feel to quote me, we might disagree on many things (political methods) but it's good we agree on something. [:)]
An Idea
I own over 40 Guns and I'm sure many of you own even more. If let say the Reds came over through Canada, or a Zombie outbreak (joke) were to hit us while our boys are out in the sandbox. What if an asteroid or meteor hit the US making Katrina look like a puddle? What if? How many people could we arm?
I could arm at least 40 men and women. Since we don't have an ideal situation and EVERYONES part of the militia whether they know it or not is it not our duty pick up the slack for others buy buying as many guns as possible? Just in case..
Scott ;
Implicit in our belief that the Second MEANS what it says is the belief that the (so-called) Justice System needs overhauled.
Vicious animals MUST be removed..PERMANENTLY..from the gene pool.
Effective methods must be developed to remove corrupt judges, lawyers, and police...to regain the trust of decent people everywhere.
This has NEVER been JUST about the Second...even if most of the harping has been about the Second.
That one aspect is why I fail to see any method peacefully to effect the changes necessary to bring about the nearly total transformation of a couple hundred years of gradual drift to the insanity of government tyranny...yet again.
I think today we have the means to determine the truth from an individual...or, with a crash research program, have it within 5-10 years. Doing so without damaging the individual in any fashion.
A man duly convicted of a crime of animal viciousness ought to be hooked up to said machine...and given the chance to exonerate himself by telling the truth.
Even without the Star Wars "Truth Detector", I would come nearer trusting the Citizens of this country that are ON the scene of a crime to kill the right guy ..then I do present day `justice'.
I think we would have thirty days of bloody fighting in the streets. Then the thugs, savages, and various ghouls and vampires would get the idea that their day of freely roaming and killing was OVER...and it would again be safe to walk a street at night.
I think you would see two or three men walking the toughest streets of their towns at midnight..and killing the punks that came out to rob, rape, or murder innocent Citizens.
I would sit on their jury..and find them innocent.
These scum-bags would either get a job...or they would starve to death.
I firmly believe that we have an underbelly of savages in this country ..and they exist solely because they are a protected species by the Authorities.
They exist solely because they ensure ever increasing power for `authorities'...and ever decreasing freedoms for average Citizens..as yet more laws are passed to `protect us from evil'...
Don't get me wrong, I was not advocating vigilantism. My fear is that it would make it easier for gangs and whatnot to get the heavier duty firepower. Just a normal, legal, armed citizen running into a situation against that kind of firepower is just scary.
Granted, those kind of thugs believe in 'spray and pray' but it only takes one lucky round to ruin your whole day. I think we all agree that someone who is responsible is going to try to make each round count and not going to just 'spray and pray'. With more gangs like MS13 and other South America gangs setting up shop here I fear what it would be like with these guys running around with a 5.56 grenade launcher over under. Many of these gangs have no ties to where they set up. They just don't care.
Do you really see any situation where justice starts to prevail without a blood bath in the streets? This isn't about becoming a vigilante. I am thinking in terms of being armed, but so lightly by comparison you may as well have brought a knife to a gun fight.
On the other hand...I have the right to walk down any street in America, any time of the day or night without fearing for my life.
Thugs, rapists, murderers and other assorted human debris do NOT have a Right to their preying on decent Citizens.
Your use of the word `vigilante' indicates a strong bias against a Citizen protecting himself..a product of generations of government propaganda.
We have, in this country, a HUGE `underground' of savages...truly evil individuals that the government sees fit to turn back out on a daily basis.
I see those animals as being a deadly threat to decent Citizens everywhere, in the event of any major shift in governmental controls.
I would EXPECT and DEMAND that the government move swiftly and surely to lessen the impact of animals arming themselves, in the event of regaining the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
In other words..were a gang such as MS13 arise and become a threat..they would be WIPED OUT TO THE LAST MAN. That would happen by the governments doing...or armed Citizens would do so.
As always..I would never expect..nor WANT..the government poking its nose in everybody's business.
Therefore...you better be prepared to resist evil all by yourself.
Your use of the word `vigilante' indicates a strong bias against a Citizen protecting himself..a product of generations of government propaganda.
I don't always communicate clearly. I feel we should all be able to defend ourselves and have no problem with that. I have no problem with someone using deadly force if the situation calls for it.
I don't see the government doing it's job to get the thugs off the streets. If it is to happen it would have to be via vigilante action. The government ain't gonna do it. THAT is what makes me nervous.
That simple.
There is one simple reason for that. I can reach the Citizen down the street. The government, at best, merely ignores you...and at worst,murders you...unreachable, unaccountable, without mercy.
Part of the demand for a return to Constitutional principles is the demand for accountablity by government. One of the few tasks they have is a strict order for speedy, fair justice. THEY HAVE FAILED MISERABLY.
This is what an American would do.
The fight for freedom will be long, and the difficulties may well be insurmountable.
One of the criteria I use in judging people is just this idea... as stated and exactly as stated.
While I would never hand out a weapon like it was a phamplet...to just anybody...arming fighters makes great good sense.