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California, revisited. Canary * ?

HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
Gentlemen,

I went to Calguns and read the poll. There is a bit of wiggle room in the question ..the fact remains ;
More respondents claimed that they believe the Second allows for no governmental controls then we get right here on GB.
I intend dropping my vocal resistance to selling to California as of now.

Personally ..I myself probably would not sell to them .as a strident middle finger to more gun laws. Particularly those I do not need to obey. THAT is the main reason I have no suppressors/full autos, ect...these are laws I have no intention of EITHER breaking...or doing the crawling necessary to obtain those items.

If Californians decide to `go to the wall' over the next round of gun control coming, before it hits here..I will be there with bells on..if they will have me.
EVERY Patriot is worth saving...and I believed there were none in California.

This action was brought about by some articulate California residents..something I was convinced did not exist.

Canary *...I ask you to think about it a bit, and give me some impute here. Have I went off the trolley, completely ?

My position is ; I would not necessarily urge dealers to sell out there. Nor will I urge them Not to.
Giving them the same options you or I would want.
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Comments

  • rkba4everrkba4ever Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If there are true advocates of the constitution, and amendment II, then, no you are not "off your trolley". If you have found kindred spirits over there, "behind enemy lines" so to speak, then they need our help. That would be the best way to send the message that we will NOT go along with more of their gun grabbing, back stabbing bull-puckey, and we won't allow our compatriots in CA to go it alone.

    Just my 2 bits.............
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,672 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have been impressed by the opinions and statements of at least two of the recent additions to the forum.

    ratduster77 and rcomps have given me hope that all is not lost in CA, and that there actually are efforts being undertaken to take back what has been taken.

    I am not a seller, and if I were, would be reluctant to allow myself to be registered by the State of California, but have decided that given the right situation, there are principled people in California that will have my financial support.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    so easily duped...
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    I really don't think you want my opinion, but here goes:

    Calguns IMO, is not an area of numberous patriots. I will admit, that I only read the first page of the link posted. Too many posters either happy with infringements OR not really taking in the weight of the question from the poll. I have seen MANY, MANY examples of their posters over here on GB, and to say I am unimpressed is an understatement. The folks come crying, bawling, and argueing. They ALLWAYS start out boo-hooing over sellers refusing Kommiefornia sales. Then they prop up the tired old "your doing what the ANTI's want!".

    How many come here, discussing the issues, and leave out the Cali crap? They come here, to soften us to THEIR agenda. WHO would actually WANT to belong to a forum of comprimisers, if they truely belived as WE do?

    Befriend those you see fit, I won't be breaking bread with ANY of them anytime soon.....
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
  • artherdartherd Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm Ben Cannon. Amongst other things; I am a board member of The Calguns Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to legal activism and changing the landscape of CA law.

    Members of the board of CGF have already caused the CA DOJ to write the Governor literally *begging* to be striped of the power to create new 'assault weapons.' CGF is not even 1 year old yet, and already we have made history in frightening an oppressive government enough to voluntarily strip itself of power...

    CGF will not stop until you can CCW (via shall-issue) a select fire MP5 in this state.

    http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/ <- check it out.
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by artherd
    I'm Ben Cannon. Amongst other things; I am a board member of The Calguns Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to legal activism and changing the landscape of CA law.

    Members of the board of CGF have already caused the CA DOJ to write the Governor literally *begging* to be striped of the power to create new 'assault weapons.' CGF is not even 1 year old yet, and already we have made history in frightening an oppressive government enough to voluntarily strip itself of power...

    CGF will not stop until you can CCW (via shall-issue) a select fire MP5 in this state.

    http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/ <- check it out.


    a) you're missing the point
    b) provide concrete proof (like a copy of the DOJ letter you speak of, laws stricken down, etc.)
  • Jim RauJim Rau Member Posts: 3,550
    edited November -1
    HB,
    I am not one of your CA's, but I agree with your stand.
    As a FFL holder I do not sell to CA residents just because:
    1. I don,t need the business,
    2. Or the hassle of the extra paperwork,
    3. And the possibility of some AH in Sacramento finding I didn't dot the right I or cross the right T ![V]
  • rkba4everrkba4ever Member Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I read on their forums after I posted earlier - some of them refer to us Canaries as "insane". Literally calling out the CA's by name (too bad we have the same initials as kommiefornia) and labeling us insane, simply for wanting a return to constitutional principles. There are some NO COMPROMISE people (just from a base glimpse on the poll #1 mentioned) but from what I gleened, there are more that are comfortable with infringements.

    I guess indoctrination works, when you're brought up with restrictions you don't feel so wronged by them (until you're eyes are opened, then you go WTH!!!!).
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rkba4ever
    I read on their forums after I posted earlier - some of them refer to us Canaries as "insane". Literally calling out the CA's by name (too bad we have the same initials as kommiefornia) and labeling us insane, simply for wanting a return to constitutional principles. There are some NO COMPROMISE people (just from a base glimpse on the poll #1 mentioned) but from what I gleened, there are more that are comfortable with infringements.

    I guess indoctrination works, when you're brought up with restrictions you don't feel so wronged by them (until you're eyes are opened, then you go WTH!!!!).


    Experienced this way before C.A. were ever conceived. Might have even shared it [the experience] here at some point.

    Oh and don't you even dare to think of criticizing the NRA.

    Here we go:

    quote:
    FreedomIsNotFree


    From what I've seen, there are plenty of regular members of the GB forum that recognize the lunacy the Canary * speak of. Their leader, Highball, is regularly called out for his ridiculousness.


    quote:impactco

    My point in doing this was to educate the dealers and sellers that frequent GB that we are fighting the good fight here and need them to cooperate with us in interstate firearms commerce. This was a larger goal beyond the Canary * "getting it".

    Now they are here to educate us. [xx(]

    I think it's self-explanatory at this point who these people are.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    We (I ) am being called insane ? By Calguns ? What a surprise. Right there in the bastion of evil...California..they use the word 'insane' to describe Americans.

    Lets see...right here, in this happy little forum, Mid-America, Free States, we were called that a couple days ago by a poster...and I personally have been called insane and WORSE for 8 years on here.

    Nothing new at all, there.

    'Don't WANT your opinion ?" Of Course I want the opinion of an intelligent man...ANY time.
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Read it. Reads like entering a sewage pit...and the lumpy turds are native Californians.

    As I stated ..there are the 3 % . We were bombarded with the utter garbage last week...and mixed in were a couple of decent human beings.
    The rest of the scum-bags are human debris.
    Perhaps it is time to institute a 'test' for gun buying.

    One would ask one simple question ; Do you believe that gun control is a good thing ?

    An afirmative answer indicates that the buyer is not an American..so no sale.
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    HB, I agree, I also think that with a bit of agitprop and education the numbers can be advances significantly. Remember, a lot of people here were not exactly the same material just a short time ago, so it is possible to learn the right from wrong, but all depends on the teachers.
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We (I ) am being called insane ? By Calguns ? What a surprise. Right there in the bastion of evil...California..they use the word 'insane' to describe Americans.

    It has been my experience that oftentimes, when one is referred to as insane, a nutjob, or a lunatic, it most likely means he absolutely correct and on the right track.

    Example: The good Representative from Texas.
  • kyplumberkyplumber Member Posts: 11,111
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wsfiredude
    It has been my experience that oftentimes, when one is referred to as insane, a nutjob, or a lunatic, it most likely means he absolutely correct and on the right track.

    Example: The good Representative from Texas.


    [8]
  • pdq_wizzardpdq_wizzard Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
    HB,
    I am not one of your CA's, but I agree with your stand.
    As a FFL holder I do not sell to CA residents just because:
    1. I don,t need the businees,
    2. Or the hassel of the extra paperwork,
    3. And the posability of some AH in Sacramento finding I didn't dot the right I or cross the right T ![V]


    Good luck with that; if KA (California) fails (totally to protect the 2nd) which state is next? Did you know that D.C. has now taken the approved list for handguns and made it there law? What happens in KA affects all of us it is just a matter of time. I know I live behind enemy lines and I do what I can (short of marching to the Capital with guns drawn as I would just end up dead) I vote talk to people about the RKBA and take nonshooters shooting all the time (I even pay for the ammo)

    But you all just live in our own little word and if KA fails to keep RKBA and your next you have a BIG I told you so coming your way.

    Also it is nice to know you have so much money that you will not sell to some of the wealthiest people in the US. (I know our state is broke but it does not mean all of us are)
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wsfiredude
    We (I ) am being called insane ? By Calguns ? What a surprise. Right there in the bastion of evil...California..they use the word 'insane' to describe Americans.

    It has been my experience that oftentimes, when one is referred to as insane, a nutjob, or a lunatic, it most likely means he absolutely correct and on the right track.

    Example: The good Representative from Texas.


    It is also the case of desperation of one's losing an argument -- best defense is to declare your opponent insane. Oh well, we should be more kind to our little less fortunate brothers who were so deprived by the nature. [}:)]
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pdq_wizzard

    Good luck with that; if KA (California) fails (totally to protect the 2nd) which state is next? Did you know that D.C. has now taken the approved list for handguns and made it there law?


    Nothing happens. CA doesn't protect the Second Amendment, if that is what you truly believe, there isn't any point talking.

    quote:Originally posted by pdq_wizzard

    But you all just live in our own little word and if KA fails to keep RKBA and your next you have a BIG I told you so coming your way.


    See above. To everyone else: are you as astounded by this arrogance as I am?
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    wizzard, what do you think the original patriots would do? I'll give you hint.....

    http://www.americanrevolution.com/BattleofLexingtonandConcord.htm

    On April 19, 1775, British General Thomas Gage dispatched 700 British troops commanded by Lt. Col. Francis Smith to Concord, Massachusetts, 16 miles northwest of Boston, to seize munitions that the Patriots had been stockpiling.

    Did they do it all for nothing?
  • pdq_wizzardpdq_wizzard Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
    quote:Originally posted by pdq_wizzard

    Good luck with that; if KA (California) fails (totally to protect the 2nd) which state is next? Did you know that D.C. has now taken the approved list for handguns and made it there law?


    Nothing happens. CA doesn't protect the Second Amendment, if that is what you truly believe, there isn't any point talking.

    quote:Originally posted by pdq_wizzard

    But you all just live in our own little word and if KA fails to keep RKBA and your next you have a BIG I told you so coming your way.


    See above. To everyone else: are you as astounded by this arrogance as I am?


    Arrogance? I just know there are not enough people to take up arms to make a difference but we might get enough people to vote our rights back. Remember this didn't happen overnight and it will not get fixed overnight.

    If you are so short sided you can't have a meaningful conversation about the best way to fix the problem then you are as much a part of the problem.
  • pdq_wizzardpdq_wizzard Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
    wizzard, what do you think the original patriots would do? I'll give you hint.....

    http://www.americanrevolution.com/BattleofLexingtonandConcord.htm

    On April 19, 1775, British General Thomas Gage dispatched 700 British troops commanded by Lt. Col. Francis Smith to Concord, Massachusetts, 16 miles northwest of Boston, to seize munitions that the Patriots had been stockpiling.

    Did they do it all for nothing?


    no, but at this point things have goten were they are because we have lost that family bond, my dad took me shooing at a very yong age. I had access to guns all my life, no safe gun in every room, if I wanted to go shooting I picked up a gun and walked out the door (at age 10)

    now a days guns are to be feared (if you lesson to the news.

    I think we need to do something but like I said we need to change the thinking of a lot of people else it will be for not.
  • KestryllKestryll Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
    wizzard, what do you think the original patriots would do? I'll give you hint.....

    http://www.americanrevolution.com/BattleofLexingtonandConcord.htm

    On April 19, 1775, British General Thomas Gage dispatched 700 British troops commanded by Lt. Col. Francis Smith to Concord, Massachusetts, 16 miles northwest of Boston, to seize munitions that the Patriots had been stockpiling.

    Did they do it all for nothing?


    Just out of curiousity jpwolf, how old are you?

    I don't mean that in a snide manner or as an insult I seriously am curious.

    I want to know how old you were in 1994 when the AWB was put in place.
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pdq_wizzard

    If you are so short sided you can't have a meaningful conversation about the best way to fix the problem then you are as much a part of the problem.


    QED
  • pdq_wizzardpdq_wizzard Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
    quote:Originally posted by pdq_wizzard

    If you are so short sided you can't have a meaningful conversation about the best way to fix the problem then you are as much a part of the problem.


    QED


    I had a smart * remark all set up for this but I guess I am wasting my time. have fun I am done if you can't do better than that.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    I was 24 in '94 kestryll. My awakening as to the true meaning began around the age 30. Heck, they didn't even teach Civics anymore when I came throught the indoctrination system.

    I think most of my early life I just thought that rkba just meant we could have guns, and I had guns, so what's the big deal? You know? I bought my first gun (shotgun) at age 14 at the hardware store by myself.

    I fell for the "it's for your own safety" crap as one infringement after another was put in place. Never knew anything about '34, '68, '86 and '94 just seemed stupid to me as I could still get what I always believed was the only thing available to us, it just had to have a thumbhole and various other stupid hoops. The gravity of it didn't hit me for many years.

    Now I understand the boiling frog tactic and how important it is to put things back the way the founders intended. The govt is supposed to fear us, not the other way around. Case in point:
    first bailout package 299/300 correspondances to D.C. expressed opposition to it. What happened? They gave 99.6% of America the one finger wave.
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    Jp, do you not understand that the question of what have you done to prevent '94 AWB is nothing else but desperation?

    See, I would not have a problem with these calgunners IF they came here seeking peace and understanding, but instead they marched in demanding something from everyone else. This is the best of them, imagine what the rest look like?

    They are not any part of CA "gun owners" as much as they want to be, they are nothing but loud mouths, that they so quick to label everyone else who don't conform to their ideas (need I go into psychology of this paradox?).

    One way or another, I am just warning you, if you can do better that I could -- awesome. Maybe there's even some hope. But, imo, it is a long shot, a very long one.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    I understand there is some history there Max. The question was asked civil manner, so it was answered in a civil manner.
    I did forget to add that "I was doing my part! I was a dues paying member of the NRA!" The reality of that whole pathetic farce hadn't reached me yet, either.
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    Understood. Now, then, with the analogy of the "NRA", I can tell you with complete confidence you will see most calguns Internet jockeys (I.j. hereafter) in the same light. Yes, I have very little hopes of reconciliation, nothing or nobody personal, just the collective agenda. As I have said before, there is plenty of people, mostly a little older, a lot wiser and much quieter that understand it all, and are pretty much on the same page as the younger population. Too much to describe, and "in all honesty" no much desire to do it.

    Just so there isn't any misunderstanding, I am all up for being civil and having a meaningful discussion or, even, argument, but with a worthy opponent, not a childish, arrogant, narcissistic set of pricks who have very hard time functioning on their own.

    PS. the question was asked in a smug manner, imo, consider the context. [}:)]
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't blame the "good folks" in California for their gun laws...and good folks are out there.

    To call them cowards is hypocrisy. Every damned one of us lives under the yolk of unconstitutional law....Crowing about the "freedom" where we live is no better than the "My turd is better than your turd" argument that makes modern politics so noxious.

    For those Californians who believe the 2nd Amendment means what it says, I welcome them. For those who would foist tyranny upon us...to hell with them.
  • Deadred707Deadred707 Member Posts: 168 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    I can't blame the "good folks" in California for their gun laws...and good folks are out there.

    To call them cowards is hypocrisy. Every damned one of us lives under the yolk of unconstitutional law....Crowing about the "freedom" where we live is no better than the "My turd is better than your turd" argument that makes modern politics so noxious.

    For those Californians who believe the 2nd Amendment means what it says, I welcome them. For those who would foist tyranny upon us...to hell with them.





    Rack Ops Thank you [:)]
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops

    For those Californians who believe the 2nd Amendment means what it says, I welcome them. For those who would foist tyranny upon us...to hell with them.


    Has anyone said anything otherwise?

    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops

    To call them cowards is hypocrisy. Every damned one of us lives under the yolk of unconstitutional law....Crowing about the "freedom" where we live is no better than the "My turd is better than your turd" argument that makes modern politics so noxious.


    Has anyone said anything otherwise?
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
    CA doesn't protect the Second Amendment


    You're right, but neither do any of the other states.
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
    CA doesn't protect the Second Amendment


    You're right, but neither do any of the other states.


    Has anyone here claimed their states do, other than those newcomers from calguns and CA?
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky

    Has anyone here claimed their states do, other than those newcomers from calguns and CA?




    quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
    quote:Originally posted by Kestryll
    Just out of curiosity, for all your talk what have you actually done to reverse the laws that constrain our rights?



    Look at the states where these people live and the laws in those states. Now then, what have YOU done in your state and what are the results?
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky

    Has anyone here claimed their states do, other than those newcomers from calguns and CA?




    quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
    quote:Originally posted by Kestryll
    Just out of curiosity, for all your talk what have you actually done to reverse the laws that constrain our rights?



    Look at the states where these people live and the laws in those states. Now then, what have YOU done in your state and what are the results?



    This isn't even the same ball park, R.O., not even the same sport. I hope I don't need to explain.
  • artherdartherd Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't usually like to toot my own horn, but since you insist...

    I helped import the first (and subsequently over 100,000+) AR into CA in half a decade.

    Me with the first AR in CA:
    AR_4-blur-crop-600.jpg
    My DOJ letter.
    CTR-02-DOJ-legal.jpg

    DOJ letter to Governor begging to sign AB2728, relinquishing power to create any new AWs.

    http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Lockyer Letter - AB 2728.pdf

    I think it's fair to say that I and others are MAKING the point, not missing it.

    quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
    a) you're missing the point
    b) provide concrete proof (like a copy of the DOJ letter you speak of, laws stricken down, etc.)
  • artherdartherd Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Now, if you'll excuse me, our Foundation is busy getting the Heller decision incorporated under the 9th circuit. (if the 9th incorporates, all others incorporate...)

    That's right, an adjudicated 2A Individual Right will directly apply in CA and in all other states, for the first time - ever. Oral Args are set for 01-15-2009 at 1:30PM in SF, and I invite anyone who gives a toot to come and witness this historic day.
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by artherd

    I think it's fair to say that I and others are MAKING the point, not missing it.

    quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
    a) you're missing the point
    b) provide concrete proof (like a copy of the DOJ letter you speak of, laws stricken down, etc.)



    So, in your view, you have "imported" a few rifles by pretty much finding a loop hole in existing law (rather than working on repealing a bad law), and that's about it.

    As far as Lockyer's letter, it's pretty much a joke.

    Now, what is the point you're making? That you somehow have "advanced the Second Amendment rights"? Since when does a right needs advancement? What do you understand a right is? And what do you think "shall not be infringed" means?

    From what I understand, not much have been added to calguns other than egos, and nothing have been done other than import of a few rifles. No laws have been challenged, no propositions suggested, no work whatsoever. Only more gun control enacted. Do you have any idea why?
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by artherd
    Now, if you'll excuse me, our Foundation is busy getting the Heller decision incorporated under the 9th circuit. (if the 9th incorporates, all others incorporate...)

    That's right, an adjudicated 2A Individual Right will directly apply in CA and in all other states, for the first time - ever. Oral Args are set for 01-15-2009 at 1:30PM in SF, and I invite anyone who gives a toot to come and witness this historic day.


    Is this a joke of some sort?
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