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True liberty vs. Pseudo liberty....
wsfiredude
Member Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭
Do you know the difference?
There has been much discussion on here recently regarding the RTKBA, exactly what it means, specific citizens to which it applies, and to what extent. I believe this was covered thoroughly 200+ years ago, yet there seems to be a certain segment of the population, specifically some firearm owners, who are adamant in their belief these matters regarding the RTKBA are still up for debate.
I believe the root cause for this stance is due to the distorted view of liberty some possess. There are simply some folks who cannot discern between pure liberty and 'pseudo', or as I like to refer to it, perverted liberty.
Let's take a look at the difference, and being this forum falls under the category of Gun Rights, we will keep this discussion focused on the liberty enumerated in Amendment II to the Bill of Rights.
Liberty:
No need for citizens to fill out forms with personal/demographic information or obtain a permit in order to purchase a firearm. You walk into the shop, pick out what you want, lay down the money, and walk out. That's it. No different from purchasing a Big Mac or a package of toilet paper.
No need for the dealer to phone in to a call center to obtain permission for a transfer.
No need for the citizens to pass a mandated process to carry their personal firerams as they wish and in any manner of their choosing.
No restrictions on what citizens can carry, possess, or own based upon action type, barrel length, size, aesthetics, capacities, perceived purpose of firearm.
Pseudo liberty (perverted, distorted, or twisted liberty):
Exactly what we have now. 4473 forms, CCW permits, NICS call-ins, AWBs, magazine restrictions, NFA or AOW firearms, permits to purchase, etc.
See the difference? It is clearly evident that a majority of the populace, including firearms owners, believe in the latter. If they did not, and if they espoused true liberty, we would not have NFA 34, GCA 68, FOPA 86, HR 2640, and a host of other regulations, because no politician would sign it for fear of being ousted from office.
The rebuttal of all this is the cry, "Well, we gotta have some regulations in place for our own safety." Hogwash. That cry is uttered by those who have allowed their views of liberty to be whitewashed by elected leaders and 'gun rights' organizations who put profit ahead of principle.
True liberty has eroded, and is systematically being replaced by pseudo liberty. The majority become acclamated to the pseudo liberty, then a little more restrictions are passed, however, they are palatable to the majority, because they no longer know what true liberty is. The vicious cycle continues, and before you know it, there is NO liberty.
True liberty or pseudo liberty. Make your decision.
There has been much discussion on here recently regarding the RTKBA, exactly what it means, specific citizens to which it applies, and to what extent. I believe this was covered thoroughly 200+ years ago, yet there seems to be a certain segment of the population, specifically some firearm owners, who are adamant in their belief these matters regarding the RTKBA are still up for debate.
I believe the root cause for this stance is due to the distorted view of liberty some possess. There are simply some folks who cannot discern between pure liberty and 'pseudo', or as I like to refer to it, perverted liberty.
Let's take a look at the difference, and being this forum falls under the category of Gun Rights, we will keep this discussion focused on the liberty enumerated in Amendment II to the Bill of Rights.
Liberty:
No need for citizens to fill out forms with personal/demographic information or obtain a permit in order to purchase a firearm. You walk into the shop, pick out what you want, lay down the money, and walk out. That's it. No different from purchasing a Big Mac or a package of toilet paper.
No need for the dealer to phone in to a call center to obtain permission for a transfer.
No need for the citizens to pass a mandated process to carry their personal firerams as they wish and in any manner of their choosing.
No restrictions on what citizens can carry, possess, or own based upon action type, barrel length, size, aesthetics, capacities, perceived purpose of firearm.
Pseudo liberty (perverted, distorted, or twisted liberty):
Exactly what we have now. 4473 forms, CCW permits, NICS call-ins, AWBs, magazine restrictions, NFA or AOW firearms, permits to purchase, etc.
See the difference? It is clearly evident that a majority of the populace, including firearms owners, believe in the latter. If they did not, and if they espoused true liberty, we would not have NFA 34, GCA 68, FOPA 86, HR 2640, and a host of other regulations, because no politician would sign it for fear of being ousted from office.
The rebuttal of all this is the cry, "Well, we gotta have some regulations in place for our own safety." Hogwash. That cry is uttered by those who have allowed their views of liberty to be whitewashed by elected leaders and 'gun rights' organizations who put profit ahead of principle.
True liberty has eroded, and is systematically being replaced by pseudo liberty. The majority become acclamated to the pseudo liberty, then a little more restrictions are passed, however, they are palatable to the majority, because they no longer know what true liberty is. The vicious cycle continues, and before you know it, there is NO liberty.
True liberty or pseudo liberty. Make your decision.
Comments
Brad Steele
Anyone else?
I thought you would.[;)]
Anyone else?
You ought to know I am a fan of TRUE liberty[;)]
The laws were not passed by 'firearms owners', but by those who felt they need protection from firearms owners.[V]
With the indoctrination of our youth by the liberals we have become an overly civilized, idealistic group of people who, unfortunealy, are making these laws becasue they have no real life experance to make a reaistic assesment of what we really need. So their 'knee jerk' reaction is to try and legislate a way to protect themseves, and everyone else, from a none existing threat![:(!]
And I too see no need for such laws. They do 'infringe' upon our Right to Life , LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness![:(]
I don't see your point here!!!
The laws were not passed by 'firearms owners', but by those who felt they need protection from firearms owners.[V]
With the indoctrination of our youth by the liberals we have become an overly civilized, idealistic group of people who, unfortunealy, are making these laws becasue they have no real life experance to make a reaistic assesment of what we really need. So their 'knee jerk' reaction is to try and legislate a way to protect themseves, and everyone else, from a none existing threat![:(!]
And I too see no need for such laws. They do 'infringe' upon our Right to Life , LIBERTY, and the procute fo happiness![:(]
.
Two quick comments:
1 Gunowners ARE responsible for the laws. They voted for the politicians OR they just sat on their hands and DIDN'T vote, allowing it to happen.
2 You have stated more than once, you are unwilling to allow people to go into the local store and buy a full auto. You are NOT totally comfortable with true liberty Jim.
Rock,
It's not asking the saem question over and over. Wht I am attempting to do is provoke thought. I know how the CA's believe. I am directing this post at those who feel comfortable with or see the necessity in "common sense" (cring) regulation. The more folks that we can convince to filter their beliefs through the Constitution, the better off we'll be, and we may just see a turn around.
I didn't expect you would.
The laws were not passed by 'firearms owners'
No, not directly, but let me ask you a question, Jim;
If one stands by while a rape is occuring, and does nothing, isn't that the same as condoning the act?
I understand the desire to have the old west again, but they made U turn in your guns when U came into town a lot of times so boneheads wouldnt shoot each other ! And get out of the major cities and most of America is tobbacco chewin toothless wonders.
So no restrictions, like let Repeat murders out of jail just walk up and buy a gun, or a 10 year olds buy a gun to shoot the school bully, or illegal aliens. Please GET REAL ! I think we have gone too far , but no restriction is just silly ! I think if U can vote U can get a gun. But I like old school, U have to be white, male and a property owner. Is that too founding fathers for U ! [:D]
Why don't you renounce your citizenship, since you're not one anyways, and move back to Commie China or Russia?
Califonia would welcome him with open arms. They LIKE perversion over there...just read 90 % of Calguns.[xx(]
no no, that's fox....
wait a minute...???
a pattern exists, and has for awhile....
quote:Why don't you renounce your citizenship, since you're not one anyways, and move back to Commie China or Russia?
Califonia would welcome him with open arms. They LIKE perversion over there...just read 90 % of Calguns.[xx(]
Very likely.
Makes me wonder, if you are crazy, I am stupid, what they all think of the Founders of this country? I bet this will go just as unanswered as the list of the California Freedom Fighters accomplishments inquiries.
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
I don't see your point here!!!
The laws were not passed by 'firearms owners', but by those who felt they need protection from firearms owners.[V]
With the indoctrination of our youth by the liberals we have become an overly civilized, idealistic group of people who, unfortunately, are making these laws because they have no real life experience to make a realistic assessment of what we really need. So their 'knee jerk' reaction is to try and legislate a way to protect themselves, and everyone else, from a none existing threat![:(!]
And I too see no need for such laws. They do 'infringe' upon our Right to Life , LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness![:(]
.
Two quick comments:
1 Gun Owners ARE responsible for the laws. They voted for the politicians OR they just sat on their hands and DIDN'T vote, allowing it to happen.
2 You have stated more than once, you are unwilling to allow people to go into the local store and buy a full auto. You are NOT totally comfortable with true liberty Jim.
I am VERY comfortable with 'TRUE LIBERTY'! Your OPINION of what true Liberty is is different than mine![}:)]
And once again you miss represented what I said. I said to buy a full auto weapon I would like nothing more than what we are currently doing for any weapon now, a quick check to see if this person has a criminal history or is currently involved in criminal activity. If you are going to try and represent my believes try and get it right please!!![;)]
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/silveira58.html
Deadred707, that's a nice piece. It seems to do a fair job of describing our beliefs. It doesn't go into the method of enforcing them, though.
Q: Have any of you read this and what are you thoughts on it??
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/silveira58.html
Read it before. Nice essay. Hopefully it would make people think a little and learn a lot.
Do you know the difference?
There has been much discussion on here recently regarding the RTKBA, exactly what it means, specific citizens to which it applies, and to what extent. I believe this was covered thoroughly 200+ years ago, yet there seems to be a certain segment of the population, specifically some firearm owners, who are adamant in their belief these matters regarding the RTKBA are still up for debate.
I believe the root cause for this stance is due to the distorted view of liberty some possess. There are simply some folks who cannot discern between pure liberty and 'pseudo', or as I like to refer to it, perverted liberty.
Let's take a look at the difference, and being this forum falls under the category of Gun Rights, we will keep this discussion focused on the liberty enumerated in Amendment II to the Bill of Rights.
Liberty:
No need for citizens to fill out forms with personal/demographic information or obtain a permit in order to purchase a firearm. You walk into the shop, pick out what you want, lay down the money, and walk out. That's it. No different from purchasing a Big Mac or a package of toilet paper.
No need for the dealer to phone in to a call center to obtain permission for a transfer.
No need for the citizens to pass a mandated process to carry their personal firerams as they wish and in any manner of their choosing.
No restrictions on what citizens can carry, possess, or own based upon action type, barrel length, size, aesthetics, capacities, perceived purpose of firearm.
Pseudo liberty (perverted, distorted, or twisted liberty):
Exactly what we have now. 4473 forms, CCW permits, NICS call-ins, AWBs, magazine restrictions, NFA or AOW firearms, permits to purchase, etc.
See the difference? It is clearly evident that a majority of the populace, including firearms owners, believe in the latter. If they did not, and if they espoused true liberty, we would not have NFA 34, GCA 68, FOPA 86, HR 2640, and a host of other regulations, because no politician would sign it for fear of being ousted from office.
The rebuttal of all this is the cry, "Well, we gotta have some regulations in place for our own safety." Hogwash. That cry is uttered by those who have allowed their views of liberty to be whitewashed by elected leaders and 'gun rights' organizations who put profit ahead of principle.
True liberty has eroded, and is systematically being replaced by pseudo liberty. The majority become acclamated to the pseudo liberty, then a little more restrictions are passed, however, they are palatable to the majority, because they no longer know what true liberty is. The vicious cycle continues, and before you know it, there is NO liberty.
True liberty or pseudo liberty. Make your decision.
Simple, direct and on-point, as usual Shane. The issue boiled down to the bottom-line as it must be.
I stand for True Liberty. Of course, you knew that already, I suspect.
Yeah Captain, I kind of gathered that.
You know, the task of discerning patriots from posers is not difficult at all.[;)][:D]
There is no such thing as 'True Liberty', only 'Real Liberty'!
True Liberty, as you explained above, is a state of mind which you are striving for, but which can not be attained in reality. But I want you to keep trying to get to this 'perfect' state because the closer you get to it the happier I will be!![8D]
Shane,
There is no such thing as 'True Liberty', only 'Real Liberty'!
You got that wrong.
True Liberty, as you explained above, is a state of mind
Wrong again. It's much more than that, believe me.
which you are striving for, but which can not be attained in reality.
Dammit! The glass is always 'half-empty' with you, isn't it?[:(!]
But I want you to keep trying to get to this 'perfect' state because the closer you get to it the happier I will be!!
How about this Jim; instead of waiting, and watching others attempt to get it, jump in and shoot for it yourself.
originally posted by Jim Rau:
Shane,
There is no such thing as 'True Liberty', only 'Real Liberty'!
You got that wrong.
True Liberty, as you explained above, is a state of mind
Wrong again. It's much more than that, believe me.
which you are striving for, but which can not be attained in reality.
Dammit! The glass is always 'half-empty' with you, isn't it?[:(!]
But I want you to keep trying to get to this 'perfect' state because the closer you get to it the happier I will be!!
How about this Jim; instead of waiting, and watching others attempt to get it, jump in and shoot for it yourself.
Shane,
You must not be paying attention if you made the last statement. I have been litterly fighting the REAL fight most of my life, not just posting on the Internet!!!![}:)]
When you mature and get some more 'reality therapy' you will understand![;)]
Already do. There is the RTKBA. Period. That is reality.