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"greatest generation"-HB

dppatroldppatrol Member Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
Sir,please do not refer to those men as cowards.My grampa ran TOWARDS machineguns and cliffs at omaha,He was not drafted.His friends died beside him,and around him all day.He never ONCE made comment on it,all the years i knew him.My uncle tied the frozen bodies of his friends to the armored vehicles,the ones they could get running,in korea(not drafted)My other uncle was shot down flying "the hump"and walked,wounded,300 miles(second out of his crew who lived) to "our friend"china.none ever spoke much about it,and never asked for anything they didnt earn, back here.I've read,and admired your comments here for the last year,please dont dishonor their memory by lumping them in with those who reapt the benefits of their selfless service while letting freedom slide at home.thx,j

Comments

  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:dppatrol
    Junior

    I understand completely your position.
    Are you aware of the battle of Athens ? Read it sometimes, and you will get a new appreciation for those men.
    Had this happened all across America, I would have nothing to talk about today..at least as far as the Second goes.

    Dppatrol , those men charged hell with a stick, and many died doing it. They exhibited bravery beyond human understanding..at least, for those never hearing the sounds of the guns.
    The problem is....they came home and quit. Tired and won out, they allowed politicians to take away their manhood...and enslave their children.

    You tell ME...how did men that understood that freedom is bought with blood and guns allow politicians to force them to their bellies to buy the means to defend their loved ones ?

    What, Sir, do YOU call that ?

    How does a man charge a machine gun at the behest of a government...then crawl, begging permission from that SAME government to exercise the Right that they bled and others died for ?

    Educate me on this...I am willing to listen and learn.
  • melkormelkor Member Posts: 191 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Because when You realize your country is not that much different than the one U fought against, U give up. For one realizes the pointlessness of War and Nations.
  • dppatroldppatrol Member Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    thanks for your reply,i would differ on it,my grandpa,and both uncles chose to settle in or near V.T,the free-est state in the "union"no cc laws,no AWB laws,etc,i only ask that you dont denigrate them as cowards.Granpa frank woke up screaming in his eightys,his friends "pinged"or "brained"in an hour,his best friend holding in his guts and urging the boys on,uncle jim looked at his friends frozen,dead faces for days(they would talk to them) before the assualt,litterally riding together on the same apc,uncle barney walked 300 miles thru the hindu kush with a hole you could put a golf ball thru.politically missinformed?maybe.they put it all on the line,for real.I read your posts,and mostly agree,but when i see you call these men cowards,i am offended.I am a coward,I have never put my life on the line for my ideals,or my countrymen.maybe my countrymen arent worth it these days?i have a few friends"in harms way"who still believe in honour,selflessness,and duty.they have a place in valhalla,Sir,when you talk in discust please keep it for those of us who deserve it,look forward to your posts,youre a modern thomas paine
  • RockatanskyRockatansky Member Posts: 11,175
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Are you aware of the battle of Athens


    Some very interesting stuff.
  • mark308mark308 Member Posts: 44 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    since the other post is locked, let me add this. the greatest generation is at least 75-80 yrs old. the 60 yrolds are the vietnam era. Im from the last few years of it. Im 56. My generation and newer have caused all of this problem we have now. worse, the younger set are the main ones that voted for the liberal congress and Obama. I dont know where my generation went wrong. maybe in afew years we will pull out of this socialist mindset. But at 60 please try getting my guns [}:)]
  • dppatroldppatrol Member Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    they were fooled by the same media conglomerate as that which railroaded in President Obama.still good men,somehow able to risk it all,for what?
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:mark308
    Starting Member



    36 Posts
    Posted - 02/08/2009 : 01:05:22 AM

    since the other post is locked, let me add this. the greatest generation is at least 75-80 yrs old. the 60 yrolds are the vietnam era. Im from the last few years of it. Im 56. My generation and newer have caused all of this problem we have now. worse, the younger set are the main ones that voted for the liberal congress and Obama. I dont know where my generation went wrong. maybe in afew years we will pull out of this socialist mindset. But at 60 please try getting my guns

    Here is a good example of what I speak about. This adminstration has passed not one gun law as of yet. This is NOT the present adminstrations fault...20,000+++ gun laws.

    1968 is right in the middle of the productive, most intelligent years of the 'greatest generations' voting and politically active years...yet they allowed it to happen.

    With all due respect ..once again...WHAT DO YOU CALL A MAN that bleeds and watches his buddies die for the freedom of a foreign country ..at the behest of his government...yet allows his OWN country to slide down the tubes ?

    That man fought with fantastic, nearly superhuman bravery WHEN HIS GOVERNMENT DEMANDED IT...yet lacked the will to fight for his OWN, his wives, his CHILDRENS freedom...right here at home, when he had to do it on his own.

    Please ..I ask again. Change my mind on this. I require logic...not the emotional appeals to understand what they did overseas.
    What price to win freedom for the entire rest of the world...and allow that freedom to slip away at home ?

    It is utterly SPECIOUS, as one of the above posters mentioned, to look at the 1968 gun law and still believe that the government is only attempting to protect us.

    Since 1968 there should be not the slightest doubt in ANY minds what the government is up to.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dppatrol
    Sir,please do not refer to those men as cowards.My grampa ran TOWARDS machineguns and cliffs at omaha,He was not drafted.His friends died beside him,and around him all day.He never ONCE made comment on it,all the years i knew him.My uncle tied the frozen bodies of his friends to the armored vehicles,the ones they could get running,in korea(not drafted)My other uncle was shot down flying "the hump"and walked,wounded,300 miles(second out of his crew who lived) to "our friend"china.none ever spoke much about it,and never asked for anything they didnt earn, back here.I've read,and admired your comments here for the last year,please dont dishonor their memory by lumping them in with those who reapt the benefits of their selfless service while letting freedom slide at home.thx,j


    You and others here are seeing the true side of Highbail and his extremist beliefs. He would make a good cruel dictator. If you don't agree with him totally, or, in the case of long dead citizens who fought in foreign wars and are not able to express agreement with Highbail, then Highbail thinks everyone who doesn't voice agreement with him is scum.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by melkor
    Because when You realize your country is not that much different than the one U fought against, U give up. For one realizes the pointlessness of War and Nations.


    Japan and Germany wanted to either kill us or make us slaves in our own country. All America wanted was for Japan and German to leave us alone. A big, big difference and proof that your statement is false.
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,672 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As noted in the thread on GD, I have a problem with the 'cowards all' comment, and believe it to be an unfair generalization.

    The fact of the matter is that once this Greatest Generation saved the world for Freedom and Capitalism, they set about to destroy it in one country where it remained reasonably intact.

    I will not go through the list again, but this generation held the purse and the power through the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. These four decades continued and confirmed the minimization of the Constitution as our governing document, and replaced it with the law of emotion.

    We can respect them for the hardship they endured during the 1930s. We can thank them for the sacrifices they made during and immediately after the war.

    We can equally point to their failures as caretakers of that which they and generations before them fought to preserve.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,672 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    As noted in the thread on GD, I have a problem with the 'cowards all' comment, and believe it to be an unfair generalization.

    The fact of the matter is that once this Greatest Generation saved the world for Freedom and Capitalism, they set about to destroy it in one country where it remained reasonably intact.

    I will not go through the list again, but this generation held the purse and the power through the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. These four decades continued and confirmed the minimization of the Constitution as our governing document, and replaced it with the law of emotion.

    We can respect them for the hardship they endured during the 1930s. We can thank them for the sacrifices they made during and immediately after the war.

    We can equally point to their failures as caretakers of that which they and generations before them fought to preserve.


    In red above.

    Is it not even in the realm of possibilty that during the '40's, 50's & 60's" millions of those people might have shared your philosophy? But because of a lack of organization or clout were unable to do anything about it; just as with the situation many of us find ourselves in right now; perhaps even the conservative gun owners in the most gun-unfriendly state of Calif perhaps find themselves in? But, no. Instead of thinking that there might have been millions of good Americans who saw what was happening and resisted the best they could, people like HIghbail and some of his * would rather condemn and entire generation. So typical of their deranged thought processes.

    Here is another one for their thought processes. Highbail and Pickitup are from that generation that the C. * condemn. Therefore, they also need to be condemned if no one else is spared. Fair is fair.
    Hence the 'Unfair generalization' response to 'cowards all'.

    Collectively our country was sold out during the Greatest Generation's watch. As a group they failed us, but there are obviously individuals that did not. Good men can and do exist in virtually any demographic. Condemnation of the actions of the group is not necessarily a condemnation of each and every individual.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Highbail clearly condemned each and everyone. It is his default mode to go extremist.
  • Hunter MagHunter Mag Member Posts: 6,610 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I tend to view it as our elected leaders sold us out by promising one thing and doing the opposite. Not just once but time and time again no matter who is running for office.
    You promise to vote one guy out, only to find out the next "politician" is worse.
    How can you fight that?
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
    I tend to view it as our elected leaders sold us out by promising one thing and doing the opposite. Not just once but time and time again no matter who is running for office.
    You promise to vote one guy out, only to find out the next "politician" is worse.
    How can you fight that?


    Only way I can think is is to use the one thing politicians fear against them. They fear the power to sent the scumbags back to being ordinary, plain old citizens with none of the power or perks. Only way I know of to instill that fear is to have a HUGE organization behind you. Something like 42 million gun owners joining up with and supporting one of the national pro-gun rights organizations.

    But of course that cannot ever happen because we gun owners are much, much too busy fighting among ourselves.
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox

    But of course that cannot ever happen because we gun owners are much, much too busy fighting among ourselves.


    We can't work together when a large segment of those gun owners are so hell-bent on stabbing the rest of us in the back?


    Why should I care about the gub'mint taking Bubba's shotgun when he doesn't care about the gub'mint taking my AR-15.

    I'll say it plainly: If mine are taken, I WANT his to be taken.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    I don't want ANYBODYS gun taken. Well, at least not from the lawful citizens.
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,895 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox

    But of course that cannot ever happen because we gun owners are much, much too busy fighting among ourselves.


    We can't work together when a large segment of those gun owners are so hell-bent on stabbing the rest of us in the back?


    Why should I care about the gub'mint taking Bubba's shotgun when he doesn't care about the gub'mint taking my AR-15.

    I'll say it plainly: If mine are taken, I WANT his to be taken.

    Another +1

    There is no difference between hunting, and recreational shooting, and what the bullet is fired from.

    This is so old and tired, and most of the "sporting, target" garbage comes from those indoctrinated by the NRA.

    Some are growing very tired of the distinctions drawn.
    Nowhere does the second refer to hunting and/or target shooting,..... in fact if you know what the BOR says and other documents by the Founders it is clear as crystal.

    I am sick of the "sportsmen" cowards bending over to the government, and the NRA, thinking their fun will not be taken away if they comply.[xx(]
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Every man that was alive in 1968 is either a coward, a Quisling, a fellow traveler, or an outright Socialist/Fascist.
    NOT ONE SOUL took up arms against a tyrannical government.

    I was a coward.
    I faced it back then...and came near to outright rebellion.
    I did not .
    I took up the task of condemning and pointing out the hideous reality of a government gone wild.

    One man, no matter the cause, is merely a quick 6 lines in the back of a local paper, if he takes up arms against the Beast.

    I am sorry that I am stepping on toes. I still await the logical response that will prove me wrong.
    Submitting to a government that is busily subverting the Constitution is cowardice.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Blah, blah, blah. You know my comments are on target.
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,717 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    having never done brave deeds like recounted here i would wonder if many came back just plain wore out with little fight left...it seems one thing to muster youthful courage against a visible enemy & another when older to sort out the political machinations of a culture of snakes
  • dppatroldppatrol Member Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    HB,i just ask that you dont use the term coward.i dont know how many times you ran through surf and sand at a firing machinegun,stumbleing over your friends bodies,or how many times you strapped your pals frozen,mutilated bodies to your tank,it just doesnt sit right with me that we debate the bravery of men who volanteered,who wrote a blank check to our country for "up to and including"their lives.THEY WERE NOT COWARDS.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    I did nothing remotely approaching what those men did.

    Yet when I came back and got my feet on the ground, and looked around at what had transpired..and NOBODY would listen about the loss of freedom...'anguish' is merely a term.
    I have lived the betetr part of my life under tyranny...and it seemed at times that I was the only person out there that felt it.

    It will take a total gun ban to get most folks to the level of anguish I feel each day for the loss of American ideals.

    Gentlemen, I am a bitter old man. WHY could there not have been 10,000 Athens..for corruption was endemic.

    WHY could not those men...who clearly saw an enemy to be defeated overseas..NOT see the enemy at home ? WHY did they continue to place them in office cycle after cycle.

    Oh...I can understand todays emasculated, girly-men voting for garbage..but THOSE men KNEW garbage when they saw it...for they had that small percentage in every outfit.

    WHY ????
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    dppatrol;

    They were never cowards on foreign soils. At the behest of their government, they gave their all..and more besides.

    We will have to disagree over their actions here in America.
  • MatchshotMatchshot Member Posts: 452 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    I did nothing remotely approaching what those men did.

    Yet when I came back and got my feet on the ground, and looked around at what had transpired..and NOBODY would listen about the loss of freedom...'anguish' is merely a term.
    I have lived the betetr part of my life under tyranny...and it seemed at times that I was the only person out there that felt it.

    It will take a total gun ban to get most folks to the level of anguish I feel each day for the loss of American ideals.

    Gentlemen, I am a bitter old man. WHY could there not have been 10,000 Athens..for corruption was endemic.

    WHY could not those men...who clearly saw an enemy to be defeated overseas..NOT see the enemy at home ? WHY did they continue to place them in office cycle after cycle.

    Oh...I can understand todays emasculated, girly-men voting for garbage..but THOSE men KNEW garbage when they saw it...for they had that small percentage in every outfit.

    WHY ????


    Highball:

    I offer a reason but not an excuse:

    Those that lived, fought and survived those years came back and wanted to resume normalcy and buried themselves in their lives, families etc. Remember the baby boom, they spent alot of time making up for being away and imbedded themselves in their families and communities. Evil and corruption has a way of sneaking up. It doesn't come rushing up to the front door and ring the bell. It creeps in and incrementally takes over. The loss of liberty is evident to us now and you wonder how, in retrospect they missed it. They, for the most part, did miss it though it was evident to a few even as it started.

    Remember, the colonists here in this country spent over a hundred years under the tyranny of the crown before they rose to rebellion. There were those that saw the evil for what it was and spoke about and were pamphleteers. It took time for the broad swath of society to embrace the idea that all men are endowed by their Creator with Life and Liberty and as free men they are beholden to no tyrannical government.

    When they came together and rebelled, it created the greatest country the world has ever seen. The evil of the over-reaching government and power hungry politicians is evident to those who participate in these boards. I unlike many on this board, hope, that the broader public will wake up as our forefathers did, to the evil confronting us.

    Higball, I appreciate your words and your honesty though it does take a little getting used to. Bitter? I understand your anger at those who should have seen but didn't. It doesn't do much good though, the past is gone, we need to look to and take care of the future and be ready as the Founders were.
  • WorkingzombieWorkingzombie Member Posts: 235 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Courage in war can be different than what you practice at home. In the end, most soldiers do not fight for flag and country, but to survive and for their buddies in their unit. War is too brutal to ponder such abstract concepts in the middle of a fire fight. And if soldiers do talk about such things during down time,what does it matter? They are already enlisted, and are resign to fight whether they feel like it or not. Or be court-martialed and jailed. All they want to do is come home and forget about war, and have a peaceful life.

    No disrespect intended, but the greatest generation was not necessary the most educated. The majority came from rural areas, and suffered years under a depression that made formal education almost impossible. So the military had to "re-educate" the service personal from the ground up, many of whom could barely read or write past grade school level. That's why the military incorporated cartoons in their training materials. I'm not saying the greatest generation was stupid, merely uniformed and un-educated in critical thinking. They were indoctrinated with a lot of propaganda film on "Why we Fight". Some it was true, other info made the Stalin into a friendly "Uncle Joe", instead of the inhuman butcher he was. Such indoctrination also included stereotyping of Japanese and Germans as being less than human--Monsters, literally that needed to be exterminated. As a result, I think many of the troops after the war just learned to trust their government too much, hence, they just fell asleep at the wheel while their freedoms were being eroded
  • dppatroldppatrol Member Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    HB thank you for your clarification in your subsequent post,and WZ you hit it right on the head.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    Highbail clearly condemned each and everyone. It is his default mode to go extremist.


    As it is your default mode to go weasel backstabber, not unlike the French...tr"faux"
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't want ANYBODYS gun taken


    You are as full of schit as a Christmas turkey.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    Matchshot and WZ have a pretty good assumption of "why" I believe.

    I believe that ALL of it was by prior design, all planned many years, even decades before it occured. Just one of many steps to enable globalization.
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