In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
When did America really lose its freedom ?
mydadsson1
Member Posts: 61 ✭✭
Apparently Jefferson and another founding fathers disagreed on certain key points and then others mentioned the Civil War as a turning point with Lincoln being not the iconoclastic person he is made out to be. I have Confederate roots and see great-great-great grandpa in photos and wonder why people have a good or bad reasons to think of the rebels who lost . I would like to hear any good comments before I hit the books.
I know the party line is Agragarian South Vs Industrial North and the freedom of slaves. That was good but earned with blood. Any comments?
"All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Friedrich Nietzsche"
I know the party line is Agragarian South Vs Industrial North and the freedom of slaves. That was good but earned with blood. Any comments?
"All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Friedrich Nietzsche"
Comments
The Conferderacy had a point, of course. But since the winners write the history books, the South is not protrayed in a positive light.
And the story taught in the public schools Goverment Run Indoctrination Day Camps is the war was fought by kindly Abe Lincoln to free the slaves from their evil Southern masters.
'Taint so, McGee. But again, JMHO
As long as there was unlimited land, free for the taking by just moving West, the intrepid adventurer enjoyed the benefits of being an individual.
The seeds of what we face today was laid right in the Constitution...the Second Amendment, for instance. Those men were intelligent ..they could have PLAINLY forbidden any interference in weapons movement...had not there been King worshippers among those in attendance.
By watering down and obfuscation, they were able to, a couple of hundred years later, allow a supreme court to find against the spirit of those 26 words.
The final nail in `freedom' was the Civil War...where federal powers assumed supreme position here in America.
It took another 150 years, with the federal income tax necessary to fund the BEAST, for that power to become omnipotent ..but we will soon witness the true extent ..and REAL purpose ..of that power to become apparent.
True freedom begins to be lost when another person moves within a couple miles of you as an individual.
As long as there was unlimited land, free for the taking by just moving West, the intrepid adventurer enjoyed the benefits of being an individual.
The seeds of what we face today was laid right in the Constitution...the Second Amendment, for instance. Those men were intelligent ..they could have PLAINLY forbidden any interference in weapons movement...had not there been King worshippers among those in attendance.
By watering down and obfuscation, they were able to, a couple of hundred years later, allow a supreme court to find against the spirit of those 26 words.
The final nail in `freedom' was the Civil War...where federal powers assumed supreme position here in America.
It took another 150 years, with the federal income tax necessary to fund the BEAST, for that power to become omnipotent ..but we will soon witness the true extent ..and REAL purpose ..of that power to become apparent.
I agree that the Civil War was a dramatic event . . . but I feel it was the FIRST major volley against freedom. 1913 was the magic year. We got the income tax, the FED, and the direct election of US Senators. If we repealed all laws back to 1912 this would be a free land again.
The Income Tax act merely allowed governemnt to finally fund the actions they intended taking..and it still took nearly another hundred years to systematically dismantle every last vestage of that freedom..till we look only at the illusion today.
"Apprehension seems to exist among the people of the Southern States that by the accession of a Republican Administration their property and their peace and personal security are to be endangered. There has never been any reasonable cause for such apprehension. Indeed, the most ample evidence to the contrary has all the while existed and been open to their inspection. It is found in nearly all the published speeches of him who now addresses you. I do but quote from one of those speeches when I declare that-
I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.
Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this and many similar declarations and had never recanted them; and more than this, they placed in the platform for my acceptance, and as a law to themselves and to me, the clear and emphatic resolution which I now read:
Resolved, That the maintenance inviolate of the rights of the States, and especially the right of each State to order and control its own domestic institutions according to its own judgment exclusively, is essential to that balance of power on which the perfection and endurance of our political fabric depend; and we denounce the lawless invasion by armed force of the soil of any State or Territory, no matter what pretext, as among the gravest of crimes.
I now reiterate these sentiments, and in doing so I only press upon the public attention the most conclusive evidence of which the case is susceptible that the property, peace, and security of no section are to be in any wise endangered by the now incoming Administration. I add, too, that all the protection which, consistently with the Constitution and the laws, can be given will be cheerfully given to all the States when lawfully demanded, for whatever cause-as cheerfully to one section as to another."
Does it really matter? I mean honestly, the important thing is that people REALIZE America has lost it's freedom.
The next step is to remedy the loss of freedom.
Then is the time, afterword, to debate where all the mess started, and how to ensure it NEVER happens again.
The Civil War ended freedom.
The Income Tax act merely allowed governemnt to finally fund the actions they intended taking..and it still took nearly another hundred years to systematically dismantle every last vestage of that freedom..till we look only at the illusion today.
I don't know that it ended it Highball, but it was indeed the beginning of the end. I agree that it did take 150 years after the war to get us here. And that only confirms that we are not up against men - men alone do not have the endurance to fight a fight that will continue beyond their grave. Rather, we are up against an overriding dark force that has impacted the affairs of men. Our only hope is the light.
quote:When did America really lose its freedom ?
Does it really matter? I mean honestly, the important thing is that people REALIZE America has lost it's freedom.
The next step is to remedy the loss of freedom.
Then is the time, afterword, to debate where all the mess started, and how to ensure it NEVER happens again.
Exactly! This isn't a high school football game, where the team getting it's * handed to them spends halftime pointing fingers. The time for pointing fingers is gone. It's not about who winners and losers! This is not a GAME! It's about our very lives, and more importantly, the lives of our children.
I have spent MUCH time..many YEARS ago..debating whom to blame for the downfall of America.
Jews, the Bank of London, Roschilds, Masons Skull and Bones..you name it, they all have been blamed.
At some point..I FINALLY realized that it made no difference at all...that the important work was to drive towards freedom once agin...and DAMN the people that oppose that goal.
The same point about 'when' it started...it is a curiosity that will need to be settled AFTER the War...when access is gained to the hidden files that contain all the information needed.
Then...and ONLY then...will the REAL work start...to hunt these scumbags to the ends of the earth, and kill them where they stand. These people that would condemn a free people to the whip of slavery...
A-FRIGGON-MEN![;)]
The same point about 'when' it started...it is a curiosity that will need to be settled AFTER the War...when access is gained to the hidden files that contain all the information needed.
Agreed.
Short of another full-fledged and official U.S. Constitutional Convention, Americans can never irretrievably lose anything that our Constitution or Bill of Rights guarantee. Powerful bureaucrats can pretend for a while to cancel a liberty, but the law and the principle is always on our side. The strong-willed among us will finally take any and every action necessary to demonstrate anew that the people's liberty is untouchable.
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:When did America really lose its freedom ?
Does it really matter? I mean honestly, the important thing is that people REALIZE America has lost it's freedom.
The next step is to remedy the loss of freedom.
Then is the time, afterword, to debate where all the mess started, and how to ensure it NEVER happens again.
Exactly! This isn't a high school football game, where the team getting it's * handed to them spends halftime pointing fingers. The time for pointing fingers is gone. It's not about who winners and losers! This is not a GAME! It's about our very lives, and more importantly, the lives of our children.
Nice to see you in our dark little corner of the forums. [;)]