.

Get ready for a gunfight

TrinityScrimshawTrinityScrimshaw Member Posts: 9,309 ✭✭✭
C&P from Fox News:

Attorney General Eric Holder is using the drug violence in Mexico to "confuse and mislead" Americans in an attempt to reinstate the expired Federal Assault Weapons Ban, gun advocates claim.

Holder revealed his intention to reinstate the ban last month while announcing more than 700 arrests in connection with a crackdown on Mexican drug cartels operating in the United States.

"As President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to re-institute the ban on the sale of assault weapons," Holder said. "I think that will have a positive impact in Mexico, at a minimum."

Holder said reinstating the ban would decrease the flow of guns from the U.S. into Mexico. He declined to offer a timeframe for any re-implementation; Justice Department spokesman Matt Miller also declined comment on Tuesday.

But Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, told FOXNews.com that Holder's "argument in general is bizarre."

"It's a delusion to say that diminishing the Second Amendment in America is somehow going to stop these ruthless drug cartels in Mexico."

LaPierre called on Holder and Justice Department officials to uphold existing laws and focus on increasing enforcement along the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border, rather than consider additional legislation.

"The answer is to enforce the law on both sides of the border," LaPierre said. "I reject the notion that the reenactment of that ban would have any impact on the Mexican drug cartels."

LaPierre, referring to the drug-related violence that killed more than 6,200 people in Mexico last year, accused Holder of trying to "put a failed political agenda on the back of a national tragedy."

Signed into law by President Clinton in 1994, the Federal Assault Weapons Ban prohibited the sale of ammunition clips with more than 10 rounds and 19 types of semi-automatic military-style guns, including AK-47s and AR-15s. The ban expired in 2004, and a 10-year extension proposed by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., was voted down.

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Michael Hammond, spokesman for the Gun Owners of America, said he was not surprised by Holder's comments.

"We expected the Obama administration, contrary to promises made during the campaign, to do everything it can to go after us," Hammond said. "It's no surprise to us that [Holder] is using a crisis as an argument to achieving his policy goals."

During a House subcommittee hearing last week, Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action, warned against making U.S. gun owners "scapegoats" for the Mexican crisis.

"The message here is clear: According to some, the violence in Mexico is not the fault of the drug cartels or their American customers, nor is it the fault of decades of Mexican government corruption," Cox said in prepared remarks.

"In their view, the fault lies with American gun owners. This is an outrageous assertion."

Authorities should ramp up border security and continue targeting so-called straw buyers who do the cartels' "dirty work," Cox said.

But Tom Diaz, senior policy analyst at the Violence Policy Center, testified at the subcommittee on National Security and Foreign Affairs on Thursday that the U.S. civilian gun market is fueling violence in Mexico and on both sides of its border.

"If one set out to design a 'legal' market conducive to the business of funneling guns to criminals, one would be hard-pressed to come up with a 'better' system that the U.S. civilian gun market -- short of simply selling guns directly to criminals from manufacturer and importer inventories," Diaz said in prepared remarks.

"The U.S. gun market not only makes gun trafficking in military-style weapons easy, it practically compels that traffic because of the gun market's loose regulations and the gun industry's ruthless design choices over the last several decades."

Citing February 2008 congressional testimony of William Hoover, assistant director of field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), Diaz said military-style weapons like the Barrett .50-caliber rifle, the Colt AR-15 .223-caliber assault rifle and the AK-47 are "precisely the makes and models of firearms that have been carefully designed, manufactured or imported and heavily marketed over the last 20 years by the U.S. civilian gun industry."

More than 7,770 guns sold in the U.S. were traced to Mexico last year, up from 3,300 in 2007 and roughly 2,100 in 2006, according to ATF statistics. It was not immediately clear what percentage of those guns fell under the United States' federal assault weapons ban.

Diaz also cited ATF tracing data that shows Mexican drug cartels receive between 90 and 95 percent of their firearms from the United States.

Along with measures such as targeting Texas, Arizona and California -- the three primary states where firearms are illegally smuggled into Mexico -- Diaz called for the implementation of an "effective" federal assault weapons ban modeled on a bill introduced in 2007 by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y.

Diaz said manufacturers continued to sell assault weapons throughout the ban by making minor design changes. He also called for the passage of a bill introduced by Feinstein during the last session of Congress that would regulate .50-caliber sniper rifles under the National Firearms Act.

Meanwhile, Democratic lawmakers like Alaska Sen. Mark Begich and Montana Sens. Max Baucus and Jon tester have already informed Holder that they'll vigorously oppose any new gun restrictions the Obama administration may be considering.

In a letter to Holder shortly after his comments, all three senators urged the Justice Department to focus on enforcing existing laws.

And Arizona state Sen. Jonathan Paton, who testified at last week's hearing, said additional gun laws are just not the answer.

"It would actually hurt the problem rather than help it," Paton, a Republican, said of re-instituting the federal assault weapons ban. "They're not giving us the resources on the laws that we already have on the books. What makes me think they're going to give us the resources for new laws?"

Paton cited Mexico's far stricter gun laws as proof that new domestic laws in the United States won't deter criminals intent on trafficking arms.

"It's not going to solve the problem you have with M-16s and AK-47s; they're already banned and they're already going into Mexico at a feverish pace," Paton told FOXNews.com. "The day they start taking their border security as serious as we do, Mexico will cut down tremendously on its amount of guns."

Comments

  • Hunter MagHunter Mag Member Posts: 6,605 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There's more than enough democrats in congress now to EASILY pass an AWB. [:(!]
    Illinois has their own AWB in front of the legislature now. So a national ban will not matter.
    And yes there's more than enough domocrats in the Illinois assembly to pass this bill also.[:(!]
  • kyplumberkyplumber Member Posts: 11,111
    edited November -1
    I would have no less of a smile on my face while I shot eric holder as I would if I shot an illegal immigrant, of course that is all hypothetically speaking of course... [:o)]
  • Mr. FriendlyMr. Friendly Member Posts: 7,981
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
    I would have no less of a smile on my face while I shot eric holder as I would if I shot an illegal immigrant, of course that is all hypothetically speaking of course... [:o)]
    AS much as I understand I would like to say I completely disagree with your reasoning. Death is far too good an end for people like him. Better to strip them of their perceived power and watch them wither away for the remainder of their pathetic life.

    Taking the life of another is no easy task, and even a mangy dog is not always easy to dispatch without some remorse on your part.
  • wittynbearwittynbear Member Posts: 4,518
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
    I would have no less of a smile on my face while I shot eric holder as I would if I shot an illegal immigrant, of course that is all hypothetically speaking of course... [:o)]

    Taking the life of another is no easy task, and even a mangy dog is not always easy to dispatch without some remorse on your part.


    Taking the life of another is not an overly difficult task, I have never felt any remorse for dispatching anything dog or otherwise.
  • Mr. FriendlyMr. Friendly Member Posts: 7,981
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
    I would have no less of a smile on my face while I shot eric holder as I would if I shot an illegal immigrant, of course that is all hypothetically speaking of course... [:o)]

    Taking the life of another is no easy task, and even a mangy dog is not always easy to dispatch without some remorse on your part.


    Taking the life of another is not an overly difficult task, I have never felt any remorse for dispatching anything dog or otherwise.
    I thank you for your service to this country but you are the last person I would want by my side in any conflict. Sorry, just my opinion
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,821 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
    I would have no less of a smile on my face while I shot eric holder as I would if I shot an illegal immigrant, of course that is all hypothetically speaking of course... [:o)]

    Taking the life of another is no easy task, and even a mangy dog is not always easy to dispatch without some remorse on your part.


    Taking the life of another is not an overly difficult task, I have never felt any remorse for dispatching anything dog or otherwise.
    I thank you for your service to this country but you are the last person I would want by my side in any conflict. Sorry, just my opinion
    Agreed.

    I have no doubt I could kill another person if needed, and live with it.
    Most military folks do not speak this way.
    If he is real,....he will be one of the members that will follow orders to the tee, and get a * from shooting fellow citizens if a confiscation plan is announced.
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,998
    edited November -1
    Taking the life of another is not an overly difficult task, I have never felt any remorse for dispatching anything dog or otherwise.

    Depends on the means used to 'dispatch'. I will not ask the method(s) you utilized, nor am I insinuating anything, but there is a stark difference in pulling a trigger vs. pushing a button, or watching what you have done through the sights of a rifle instead of a CRT monitor. The end result may be the same, but the effect(s) on the person behind the trigger as opposed to those on the switch/button are on opposite ends of the spectrum.
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
    I would have no less of a smile on my face while I shot eric holder as I would if I shot an illegal immigrant, of course that is all hypothetically speaking of course... [:o)]

    Taking the life of another is no easy task, and even a mangy dog is not always easy to dispatch without some remorse on your part.


    Taking the life of another is not an overly difficult task, I have never felt any remorse for dispatching anything dog or otherwise.
    I thank you for your service to this country but you are the last person I would want by my side in any conflict. Sorry, just my opinion
    Agreed.

    I have no doubt I could kill another person if needed, and live with it.
    Most military folks do not speak this way.
    If he is real,....he will be one of the members that will follow orders to the tee, and get a * from shooting fellow citizens if a confiscation plan is announced.


    The scared est you will ever be is when you realize you have the ability and can...

    The saddest is when you do!

    You here a lot of people (cops included) say "I'd have blown his * away". You don't know if you can until the opportunity presents itself. Not everybody has the ability to do it without hesitation, 1/2 second hesitation is all it takes.

    Lance
  • wittynbearwittynbear Member Posts: 4,518
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
    I would have no less of a smile on my face while I shot eric holder as I would if I shot an illegal immigrant, of course that is all hypothetically speaking of course... [:o)]

    Taking the life of another is no easy task, and even a mangy dog is not always easy to dispatch without some remorse on your part.


    Taking the life of another is not an overly difficult task, I have never felt any remorse for dispatching anything dog or otherwise.
    I thank you for your service to this country but you are the last person I would want by my side in any conflict. Sorry, just my opinion
    Agreed.

    I have no doubt I could kill another person if needed, and live with it.
    Most military folks do not speak this way.
    If he is real,....he will be one of the members that will follow orders to the tee, and get a * from shooting fellow citizens if a confiscation plan is announced.


    First off Marc you are an idiot, I would not participate in any confiscation plan. I am out of the military and have no obligation to follow anyone's orders, and even if I did I would disobey any unconstitutional order as would many others in the military. Perhaps if you would do your homework before opening your mouth you wouldn't look like such an idiot.

    Todesengel, you are the last person I would want with me in a conflict as well. You may hesitate and cause yourself and possibly others their lives. Some people freeze up completely, and some just hesitate, either way it can get people killed. There is no time for a conscience or remorse, it will only get you killed. After a few times you'll lose that and won't get sick to your stomach anymore, you won't feel anything.

    When you pull that trigger or slide a knife into someone yes thats forever, but you have to realize you are just doing what you have to do to stay alive and keep your friends alive. Thats something that thankfully many of you will never understand, some unfortunately will.
  • Mr. FriendlyMr. Friendly Member Posts: 7,981
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
    I would have no less of a smile on my face while I shot eric holder as I would if I shot an illegal immigrant, of course that is all hypothetically speaking of course... [:o)]

    Taking the life of another is no easy task, and even a mangy dog is not always easy to dispatch without some remorse on your part.


    Taking the life of another is not an overly difficult task, I have never felt any remorse for dispatching anything dog or otherwise.
    I thank you for your service to this country but you are the last person I would want by my side in any conflict. Sorry, just my opinion
    Agreed.

    I have no doubt I could kill another person if needed, and live with it.
    Most military folks do not speak this way.
    If he is real,....he will be one of the members that will follow orders to the tee, and get a * from shooting fellow citizens if a confiscation plan is announced.


    First off Marc you are an idiot, I would not participate in any confiscation plan. I am out of the military and have no obligation to follow anyone's orders, and even if I did I would disobey any unconstitutional order as would many others in the military. Perhaps if you would do your homework before opening your mouth you wouldn't look like such an idiot.

    Todesengel, you are the last person I would want with me in a conflict as well. You may hesitate and cause yourself and possibly others their lives. Some people freeze up completely, and some just hesitate, either way it can get people killed. There is no time for a conscience or remorse, it will only get you killed. After a few times you'll lose that and won't get sick to your stomach anymore, you won't feel anything.

    When you pull that trigger or slide a knife into someone yes thats forever, but you have to realize you are just doing what you have to do to stay alive and keep your friends alive. Thats something that thankfully many of you will never understand, some unfortunately will.

    well i understand your concern, but you act as if I have never taken life. I have taken life, and have no desire to do so again. If I have to, I will not hesitate, but it doesn't mean that I will not regret having done so
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
    quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
    I would have no less of a smile on my face while I shot eric holder as I would if I shot an illegal immigrant, of course that is all hypothetically speaking of course... [:o)]

    Taking the life of another is no easy task, and even a mangy dog is not always easy to dispatch without some remorse on your part.


    Taking the life of another is not an overly difficult task, I have never felt any remorse for dispatching anything dog or otherwise.
    I thank you for your service to this country but you are the last person I would want by my side in any conflict. Sorry, just my opinion
    Agreed.

    I have no doubt I could kill another person if needed, and live with it.
    Most military folks do not speak this way.
    If he is real,....he will be one of the members that will follow orders to the tee, and get a * from shooting fellow citizens if a confiscation plan is announced.


    First off Marc you are an idiot, I would not participate in any confiscation plan. I am out of the military and have no obligation to follow anyone's orders, and even if I did I would disobey any unconstitutional order as would many others in the military. Perhaps if you would do your homework before opening your mouth you wouldn't look like such an idiot.

    Todesengel, you are the last person I would want with me in a conflict as well. You may hesitate and cause yourself and possibly others their lives. Some people freeze up completely, and some just hesitate, either way it can get people killed. There is no time for a conscience or remorse, it will only get you killed. After a few times you'll lose that and won't get sick to your stomach anymore, you won't feel anything.

    When you pull that trigger or slide a knife into someone yes thats forever, but you have to realize you are just doing what you have to do to stay alive and keep your friends alive. Thats something that thankfully many of you will never understand, some unfortunately will.

    well i understand your concern, but you act as if I have never taken life. I have taken life, and have no desire to do so again. If I have to, I will not hesitate, but it doesn't mean that I will not regret having done so


    I don't agree with the way Todesengel words alot of his opinions ( although I agree) but I agree 100% on this one.

    Lance
  • Mr. FriendlyMr. Friendly Member Posts: 7,981
    edited November -1
    Yeah well I wouldn't agree with me too much, I am more or less the village idiot. I get my share of hate mail.
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    Yeah well I wouldn't agree with me too much, I am more or less the village idiot. I get my share of hate mail.


    Naw, but I agree anyway. We all get hate mail, it is a sign you are pushing buttons.[;)]
  • wittynbearwittynbear Member Posts: 4,518
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Todesengel
    well i understand your concern, but you act as if I have never taken life. I have taken life, and have no desire to do so again. If I have to, I will not hesitate, but it doesn't mean that I will not regret having done so


    OK, I think we are on the same page. I have no desire to take a life either, but my point is I refuse to second guess myself for something that had to be done, or cry about the death of some poor terrorist that would have put a 7.62x39 3rd eye in my forehead if given the chance.
  • oreegunoreegun Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This forum has really gotten way off center. Who has killed? Who hasn't? Wants to? Not wants to? This is all nothing but fodder. I have known many persons that have taken the lives of others and they neither like to talk about it and never get "used" to it. Those that tell you that getting "used" to it makes it easier has been watching to many Dirty Harry movies. Heros are humble. Non-heros are wannabes and know there is no way to prove it.
  • wittynbearwittynbear Member Posts: 4,518
    edited November -1
    I think its important that people with knowledge in this area speak frankly and inform their fellow citizens. The time for being humble has past, like it or not it should be discussed to keep as many of us alive as possible in the coming times. We will need our experienced patriots to help and guide our inexperienced patriots.
  • RocklobsterRocklobster Member Posts: 7,060
    edited November -1
    I have a very good friend of many years, we've known each other since grammar school. He was a cocky little tough guy, always an asset in a barroom brawl. When the US became involved in Vietnam, he joined the army - requested airborne, combat, Vietnam. I told him he was crazy, he laughed. Off he went to Fort Benning while I stayed home and watched the draft lottery on TV, wondering when I might join him.

    He got his wish, 82nd Airborne. He went to a little place called Bong Song. He came home a very different man. Very meek, quiet, introverted.

    The only time he ever talked about his tour of duty was while we were enjoying a warm Southern night on his porch after having gone through about three-fourths of a bottle of Jack Daniels. The wives and kids were long in bed.

    No need to go into detail, just let it suffice to say he killed some people. He was not not proud of it, had no platitude of a pithy remark to mouth about it to impress anyone.

    Funny thing, nowadays he won't even swat a fly.
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