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buying guns at a gun show

lock stock and barrellock stock and barrel Member Posts: 91 ✭✭
Is there anywhere in this country where you can buy guns from a reputable dealer at a gun show with out proper back ground checks and paper work??? private sales not included.
ABC says you can , per piece done sat 4-10-09 5:30 news. I dought it ... you can't here in wisconsin, before i go off on abc and my local station i would like to have the facts.. please get back if you know this bs can't go with out a backlash of people who know better...

Comments

  • trapguy2007trapguy2007 Member Posts: 8,959
    edited November -1
    To think that a dealer would take guns out of his display counter and take them to a gun show or sell them out the back door is really crazy .
    Abc is marketing to the stupidest of the stupid (Democrats ).
    Someone is going to have to tell me why a dealer would intentionally do this .
    The reward compared to the penalty in lopsided .
    the guns are on his books .
    Do you think that an ATF investigator will accept strike throughs and erasors in the log book ?[;)]
  • spooksterspookster Member Posts: 513 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It is the direct result of the MEDIA trying again to make the worst out of every situation they get a chance at.
    I think if the media was banned from televising such horrible incidents like bingamton,,, VT,,etc,,, the number of incidents would decline.
    But anymore the right to freedom of speech seems to be a right to abuse and blow things out of proportion simply for the ratings.
    just my 2 cents.

    Jim
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ABC LIES.

    EVERY dealer MUST fill out the paperwork!
    Some states allows a CCW "in place of" a background check
    (a CCW holder, which has already had an extensive background checks done)
    otherwise EVERY dealer WILL make the call.
  • quickmajikquickmajik Member Posts: 15,576 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    pickenup said it, I have never seen a new from the factory gun sold without paperwork or proof of ccw.. There are police officers at most of the gunshows I have been to who watch whats going on at the tables as well. I have never seen a gun in an ilegal configuration for sale without a big sign saying class three dealer samples either.


    Any gun that has dealer paperwork on it can be sold by the owner in a private transaction. but usually there are no tables full of those types of firearms, and even if there are, in some cases they will still do a background check.
  • dakotahunterdakotahunter Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ABC = Always oatmeal Company and they did a great job of trying to spread it around..
  • slumlord44slumlord44 Member Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It can not be done legaly. In Illinois all gun show sales including those by individuals have to have a background check and a 24 hour waiting period on long guns and 72 hours on handguns. This has been the law for several years. The transaction can be run throug an FFL for $10 or you can make the call and hold the gun yourself. This has not stoped the criminals in Chicago, E. St. Louis, or any other city in Illinois from geting guns illegaly. The real push is to require ALL firearms transfers to go through an FFL so there is a paper trail so all guns can be traced and then, if the laws get passed, confiscated. It realy has nothing to do with the nonexistant gun show loophole.
  • ForceReconForceRecon Member Posts: 72 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    A dealer MUST perform a NICS check, both of you properly fill out a form 4473, and he MUST review that form to insure that you did not disqualify yourself from purchasing a firearm by answering the first question 'No', and any of the subsequent questions 'yes'. You must present proper ID of that state the sale took place in (i.e., you're a legal resident of that particular state and you are of age to purchase said firearm).

    The NICS check can be waived if you present a valid CCW permit, but that is not the case in all areas of the country; to verify this, one should check with the local BATFE office to see if your local Sheriff has does his necessary paperwork to satisfy the statewide BATFE office. This addendum is subject to change at a moments notice due to BATFE policies. Shifting sand, anyone?

    To answer your question, NO, a dealer cannot LEGALLY sell to anyone without jumping through all the hoops. If he does, then the BATFE agents will pay him/her a visit, and trust me, they won't be adding the dealer to their Christmas card list.

    Say goodnight Johnny, he's going to be someone's girlfriend for a few years.
  • bubbhabubbha Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Go to Mexico apparently they have plenty of full auto "American" Guns for sale.
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ABC is perpetuating the "Gun Show Loophole" myth. A DEALER (one who holds an 01 Federal Firearms License) must do business the same at a show or at a shop. Not all sellers at a show are dealers- some are private citizens that want to sell a gun. Just like when Joe Six Pack puts an ad in the local paper to sell a gun.

    IF ABC actually investigated, they would find Dealers with clipboards, form 4473s, cell phones for background checks, etc. Of course, that would not be really exciting, and would not support the agenda that ABC had already selected to push.

    Two scenarios where a dealer does NOT have to do the paperwork- 1. transfer to another FFL holder- Dealer or Collector, and 2. sale of an ANTIQUE (traditional muzzleloader, or made before 1899) since by Federal Law, those are not firearms.
  • Hunter MagHunter Mag Member Posts: 6,610 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by slumlord44
    It can not be done legaly. In Illinois all gun show sales including those by individuals have to have a background check and a 24 hour waiting period on long guns and 72 hours on handguns. This has been the law for several years. The transaction can be run throug an FFL for $10 or you can make the call and hold the gun yourself. This has not stoped the criminals in Chicago, E. St. Louis, or any other city in Illinois from geting guns illegaly. The real push is to require ALL firearms transfers to go through an FFL so there is a paper trail so all guns can be traced and then, if the laws get passed, confiscated. It realy has nothing to do with the nonexistant gun show loophole.

    Slum I do believe that in Illinois even at gun shows a FTF transaction doesn't require a 4473. One must have the FOID card though,which requires a background check by the Illinios state police to receive one. Even for ammo purchases as you know.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I am not aware of any legislation being passed recently requiring this. They tried but failed as I remember.
    Was it you in another thread maybe a week or two ago that I was talking to about this?

    Maybe I'll call my FFL guy to find out. He's also a retired 30 year policeman.
  • Hunter MagHunter Mag Member Posts: 6,610 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Slum I found it. Makes me wonder if FTF away from gun shows doesn't require a background check also.[:(]
    This is ludicrous though. One still needs a FOID card to purchase gun or ammo which requires a background check to get a FOID card.[xx(]
    Link http://www.illinois.gov/pressreleases/ShowPressRelease.cfm?SubjectID=3&RecNum=4001

    quote:SB 1333 requires gun sellers, who are not federally licensed firearms dealers, to request background checks from the Illinois State Police (ISP) before they can sell guns at gun shows. If ISP determines, after a background check is conducted, that the buyer is qualified to own a gun, the state police will issue an approval number that is valid for 30 days, during which time the sale must take place. Additionally, the seller must retain records of sales for at least ten years and make those records available to law enforcement agencies for criminal investigations.
  • slumlord44slumlord44 Member Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    FTF other than a gun show does not require a bckground check or waiting period. Buyer and seller have to have FOID cards. What they realy want is for ALL transfers to have to go through an FFL so there is a paper trail. So far, so good. I get tired of going through the hoops but I refuse to stop buying and selling firearms. I have a C&R which simplifies things for most of the guns I buy.
  • screwobamascrewobama Member Posts: 625
    edited November -1
    There are none that I know of that would put their FFL at risk.
  • Hunter MagHunter Mag Member Posts: 6,610 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by slumlord44
    FTF other than a gun show does not require a bckground check or waiting period. Buyer and seller have to have FOID cards. What they realy want is for ALL transfers to have to go through an FFL so there is a paper trail. So far, so good. I get tired of going through the hoops but I refuse to stop buying and selling firearms. I have a C&R which simplifies things for most of the guns I buy.

    FTF is my preferred way to buy firearms and even then the seller must keep records for 10 years after the sale. It's none of their business IMO. Furthermore the redundancy is ludicrous,a background check to receive a FOID,a background check when purchasing firearms after having the background check for the FOID card. Pretty soon they'll be a background check once a month just for the hell of it.[xx(]
  • don.bdon.b Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    A 'dealer', must adhere to ALL Fed, State, and local regulations. I'm talking FFL holder, here. Individuals are not required to conduct background checks, keep form 4473's, a 'bound book', ect. Where I live, you don't conduct transations, as a individual, within the premises of the Show. However, you may network with people as you will....
  • redman.com1redman.com1 Member Posts: 718 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    one thing that i always thought was wierd, is that i can go into a gun show and sell a gun to a dealer and they dont even ask me for a id? anybody else?
  • capguncapgun Member Posts: 1,848
    edited November -1
    Many times these articles on the gun show loophole refer to a "dealer" as someone set up at a show selling guns. Where I live the vast majority of exhibitors are not licensed dealers and can sell with no paperwork or background check. If a dealer is buying a gun from you and not getting your ID, he is obviously not entering it into his books, and selling it "off the books", a violation of federal law.
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