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am I going to be arrested by the ATF?

thebearairthebearair Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
So long story short, we had a huge theft in our area by a UPS driver over 60,000 in merchindise including firearms. So I declared my shipment to the FFL as autoparts, apparently the ups shipper opened the package and called ATF,and the gun is now in possesion of the ATF. Our local ATF does not answer the phone,you have to leave a message. I did get one call back the first week and was told that I had 2 "malfunctions" the first being shipping the gun as auto parts and the second was not shipping FFL to FFL. The second I didnt argue because I know that in fact is not the law! you only have to ship to an FFL. I also explained why I had mislabled due to the recent thefts and the agent said that she was in fact in the middle of that case right now...anyway after 3 weeks and 2 more phone messages they still do not call me back. BTW I was the one who made first contact anfter calling my shipper to see why the packages hadnt been shipped. I believe my only mistake was not declaring the package as firearms so... Will I be arrested for mislableing my UPS shipment?
Thanks for any advice.

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    steveaustinsteveaustin Member Posts: 852 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is your first post? You're screwed. Follow the rules. At least according to local laws as well as the BATFinc. If you don't agree with them then you will fit in nicely, but if you have a license, why the hell would you go and screw it up?
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    pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Will you be arrested? Possibly.
    You are correct about not having to ship FFL to FFL.

    The following is from the BATF FAQ page.

    "quote"
    (B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
    "end quote"
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    thebearairthebearair Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by steveaustin
    This is your first post? You're screwed. Follow the rules. At least according to local laws as well as the BATFinc. If you don't agree with them then you will fit in nicely, but if you have a license, why the hell would you go and screw it up?

    I dont have a license. Here in Florida as long as your not a dealer we can sell our guns to any individual any time and never go thru FFL's. I thought I understood the rules and was shipping to a FFL. But just wasnt comfortable labeling the package hand gun I guess I will have lots of time in prison to read the rest of the ATF laws. Layed off my job in March and Jailed in September you are right my friend I am screwed thanks.
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    steveaustinsteveaustin Member Posts: 852 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Person to person sale is the same as a gun show in TX but never never ever ship. Unless your an ffl.
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    IdahoRedneckIdahoRedneck Member Posts: 2,699
    edited November -1
    I have no Idea how screwed you are, I will say you ought not be decitful when your shipping a firearm, and then my tounge burns because the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, so if you have a gun and sell it, it shouldnt matter who buys it.....period. BUT these are the people refered to as the beasts who have set laws in motion borderline unconstitutional IMHO and we are expected to follow.



    If ya dont........ you find yourself in your situation. catch 22 there in my book[:)]
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    Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,476 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by thebearair
    [But just wasnt comfortable labeling the package hand gun


    quote:The following is from the BATF FAQ page.

    "quote"
    (B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
    "end quote"
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    EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pickenup
    Will you be arrested? Possibly.
    You are correct about not having to ship FFL to FFL.

    The following is from the BATF FAQ page.

    "quote"
    (B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
    "end quote"


    The quote in red is not true. The law only requires notification to the carrier when you are shipping to an unlicensed person. It is not legally required when shipping to a licensee.

    I have a letter from BATF Hq confirming that and admitting that the answer to their FAQ is misleading and incomplete.
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    pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by EOD Guy
    quote:Originally posted by pickenup
    Will you be arrested? Possibly.
    You are correct about not having to ship FFL to FFL.

    The following is from the BATF FAQ page.

    "quote"
    (B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
    "end quote"


    The quote in red is not true. The law only requires notification to the carrier when you are shipping to an unlicensed person. It is not legally required when shipping to a licensee.

    I have a letter from BATF Hq confirming that and admitting that the answer to their FAQ is misleading and incomplete.

    EOD Guy,
    Any way you can scan that (or take a pic, or?) and post it online, email, mail, etc.?

    I would REALLY like to have it for future reference.
    It must include the agents name that sent it to you, but not yours, if you don't want to. [;)]
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    zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by steveaustin
    but never never ever ship. Unless your an ffl.



    NOT! It is perfectly legal to ship to an FFL. UPS, FedEx and USPS all allow shipment of guns from a non FFL to an FFL in compliance with in federal guidlines.

    Lance
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    thebearairthebearair Member Posts: 4 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks so much for all the replies, I also found this: The other than in section e is what is interesting any takes on that?? Thanks
    922. Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful --

    (2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that --

    (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;

    (e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
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    steveaustinsteveaustin Member Posts: 852 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I didn't mean to jump at you bud, what I don't know about law could fill a room. Best of luck to you.
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