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quote:Originally posted by cabnetman
I would like to read it, however, your link is GONE! Who took that link? Another sneaky politician?
Here is the link
quote:Originally posted by cabnetman
I would like to read it, however, your link is GONE! Who took that link? Another sneaky politician?
Heres the link
Once again. It's a right. Not a privalige,(sp?). You don't need permission to exercise a right. And it does not surprise me in the least that the NRA lackeys are for this. They are allways the first to back "common sense" gun control.
Well, I agree that it's a right and not a privilege. However, I also keep asking myself that if it's a right, then why do I have a CC permit? You all should be asking the same question.[?][?]
USA
63 Posts
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 3:53:56 PM
Well, I agree that it's a right and not a privilege. However, I also keep asking myself that if it's a right, then why do I have a CC permit? You all should be asking the same question
The question has been asked..and answered many times on this forum.
Allow me to shorten it ;
The 'greatest generation' came home heros, exhausted after many years of fighting. They rested on their laurels..and allowed their OWN contry to be stolen out from underneath them.
They raised generations of ignorant children..taught them to obey the law. The law was corrupted.
The children were raised cowards, many of them.......and today you see a Nation of them. Cowards.
Slackers.
Shirkers.
Many utterly stupid.
You have a CCW because you live under TYRANNY...and are doing nothing about it.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:cabnetman
New Member
USA
63 Posts
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 3:53:56 PM
Well, I agree that it's a right and not a privilege. However, I also keep asking myself that if it's a right, then why do I have a CC permit? You all should be asking the same question
The question has been asked..and answered many times on this forum.
Allow me to shorten it ;
The 'greatest generation' came home heros, exhausted after many years of fighting. They rested on their laurels..and allowed their OWN contry to be stolen out from underneath them.
They raised generations of ignorant children..taught them to obey the law. The law was corrupted.
The children were raised cowards, many of them.......and today you see a Nation of them. Cowards.
Slackers.
Shirkers.
Many utterly stupid.
You have a CCW because you live under TYRANNY...and are doing nothing about it.
Get caught with a concealed weapon and no CCW go to jail, how can we change this? Its easy to point the finger. one should look in the mirror from time to time and ask what can I do to change the laws that take our rights away. Often its easier to talk the talk but are you willing to walk the walk?
Begin to grasp that we live under tyranny. A 'soft tyranny, yet..but the hard one is coming.
Obey the laws...all you can stomach.
Gte the CCW..as LONG as you understand that you are obeying TYRANNY ..and not acquiring the 'Right to carry'.
THAT was taken away a long time ago..unless you are willing to accept the consequences of disobeying that tyranny.
Get out of the corrupted political system and prepare yourself and your loved ones for hard times...very hard times.
I see NO VALUE in helping to perpetuate this present system..and HAVEN'T for about 30 years.
The only answer is to work tirelessly to restore the Republic..and that means changing mens minds, one at a time.
USA
64 Posts
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 10:46:33 AM
I'm willing to walk the walk, but don't know which direction to start walking
Every man makes his own decisions.
My opinion ;
Obey the laws of the land, as well as you can understand the conflicting maze of them.
You are worth more free then jailed.
Educate yourself on the meaning of the Constitution, and the ideals of the Republic. (Reading this forum would be a splendid start..lots of damn good people posting information on here)
Begin to educate those around you.
Prepare yourself and those around you for hard times. Gather some supplies, and train yourself in disciplines that would be of value in a Third World country.
Understand what the word Tyranny means..and its application to this country today.
Highball,
I am enjoying the forum and you're right, there is a lot of good people and great ideas being tossed around here.
I hear a lot of complaints here regarding the NRA. Understand that I have no misconceptions about them; however, I am a supporter of the NRA and for these reasons. There is no perfect anything, and 90% of what they believe in, is in line with my beliefs. They have the political clout to influence elections. I don't see or know of any other pro gun organizations (and there are a lot of good ones out there) that come anywhere near their influence. So, my humble feeling is that we need to support them, and just as we are trying to change the government, we need to be working just as hard to change the NRA and bring it in line with what the 2nd says. I think that any of the leaders in the NRA are pro 2nd amendment and they are just trying to get the best laws that can be had for us. Sometimes, coming in 2nd is better than coming in last.
My concern is, that we have the attitude that we will only settle for the best, i.e. exactly what the constitution says and we can take that attitude right down the slippery slope to where we no longer have any gun rights. A very sad day in America when that happens. Of course, these are only my opinions.
cabnetman ;
Yours is a common viewpoint among gun owners.
I believe it to be wrong...deadly wrong.
I believe , after witnessing the last 50 years, that that viewpoint will eventually so water down the Second that there will come a time we have no guns at all.
Period.
I believe that the only way to keep a government in line is when THEY fear the people. Their only reason to fear the people is because those people are fully armed..and prepared to take this country away from them.
One cannot accomplish this when government knows every gun owner, all their weapons, and those armed people are bowing and scrapping to their Masters.
'The Bill of Rights' is JUST THAT....RIGHTS. Not to be touched by slimy, sleazy madmen in government.
I see no `Bill of Privileges' when I read the Constitution and related documents....
From a well known NRA member "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" Charlton Heston
We have CC permits now because that's the law. We fill out all the required paper work to buy a gun, because that's the law. We can only sell or buy guns thru an FFL dealer, because that's the law. It's not what the second says, far from it, but it's the law. I don't like it, but we can still have our guns.
I was raised in an era when I took my 30-06 to school and set it in the corner of the class room and after school, went to the woods behind the school deer hunting, and no one gave it a second thought. That's where we need to be today. Yes, the bills of rights is just that and so is the constitution, but try and tell that to our law makers. We need to fight like hell to change the laws and I can't do it by myself nor can you. So, as I've said, like it or not, we need someone like the NRA with their clout to help change the law. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any other way to make it happen.
Very interesting. Well I guess what all of us NRA members should do is just cancel are membership. That'll teach em.
Looks like if we want to be able to own guns in the future, we're going to have to move to Afghanistan, Pakistan or Somalia. Not really a place I would like to raise me kids in.
It's been said many times and many ways, but...while it seems like a "good" thing to have a national CCW law, guess whose hands the control of the law winds up in? Yep, you guessed...the Executive Branch of government, meaning Obama, Holder, etc. Are you ready for that? Sneaky bustards...pass a national CCW law, then control it! It takes the rights of the states away. I'll vote for state-by-state reciprocity, thank you. We need more states rights and much less federal government.
quote:Originally posted by OLDCOP
It's been said many times and many ways, but...while it seems like a "good" thing to have a national CCW law, guess whose hands the control of the law winds up in? Yep, you guessed...the Executive Branch of government, meaning Obama, Holder, etc. Are you ready for that? Sneaky bustards...pass a national CCW law, then control it! It takes the rights of the states away. I'll vote for state-by-state reciprocity, thank you. We need more states rights and much less federal government.
quote:Could not have said it better!
quote:Originally posted by OLDCOP
It's been said many times and many ways, but...while it seems like a "good" thing to have a national CCW law, guess whose hands the control of the law winds up in? Yep, you guessed...the Executive Branch of government, meaning Obama, Holder, etc. Are you ready for that? Sneaky bustards...pass a national CCW law, then control it! It takes the rights of the states away. I'll vote for state-by-state reciprocity, thank you. We need more states rights and much less federal government.
Well that's certainly the other side of the coin that I didn't see. Thank for turning over the coin.[;)]
quote:Originally posted by cabnetman
Very interesting. Well I guess what all of us NRA members should do is just cancel are membership. That'll teach em.
Well, that's a start. I did, because I refuse to align with any organization who attempts to undermine the RTKBA.
quote:
Looks like if we want to be able to own guns in the future, we're going to have to move to Afghanistan, Pakistan or Somalia. Not really a place I would like to raise me kids in.
Not I.
I was born here (and I have an original birth certificate to prove it), raised here, and I intend on staying. This is my home, and it is where I will raise my kids.
And I intend to keep all my firearms, every damn one of them.
quote:So, as I've said, like it or not, we need someone like the NRA with their clout to help change the law. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any other way to make it happen.
Problem is, the only 'laws' that the NRA goes about 'changing' are newly proposed legislation, which further restrict firearms, or further cements the mistaken-belief of gun 'privilege', rather than gun 'rights'.
Also, the NRA does not work to repeal Federal gun-control laws, rather, they continually pressure, lobby and brag about their 'Project-Exile', which is a strict enforcement campaign for Federal Firearms Laws.
In my humble opinion I think one of the real important factors that helps roadblock much of the proposed anti-gun legislation is actually the factor that under states rights, the federal government can't force a state to pay the cost of implimenting a federal program. This was a sticking point with the original instant check system. The feds often try to financially blackmail the states to take on programs such as the 55 mile speed limit of years back. They tried to do it by threatening to withold federal highway funds if the states didn't adopt that speed limit. A few of the western states told the feds to kiss their A**, but quite a few complied.
I think it came about from lobby groups representing the insurance industry. I think their concern was more for the folks whose faces are on the bills in their wallets than for the drivers that bought their insurance. Doug the Mug -Follow the money its the REAL motive behind much of this stuff.
quote:Originally posted by cabnetman
Congress has usurped its authority in every sector of our life. Where does the Constitution give them the right for health care or prescription drugs? They don't have the right; they took it because that's what the people wanted. That is the same path that we are going down with the 2 nd. It is not what the constitution says anymore, it's what the people want, and that is going down a very slippery path and I don't have an answer as to how to stop it. Not sure it can be stopped. That is one of the reasons I was happy about the outcome of the Heller case. You can say all sorts of bad things about that case, but at least it has established law precedence.
The people Don't want Government one size fits all health care or the banks being bailed out and the government intrusion into the automotive industry, They don't always do what the people want. Interesting post guys!
quote:The people Don't want Government one size fits all health care or the banks being bailed out and the government intrusion into the automotive industry, They don't always do what the people want.AAAHHHH. But you see they thought the people did want all that. This whole situation is still playing out and it is not done yet. I for one, am please that the people are finally standing up for what they believe in and what is right. Maybe there is still hope for the good ol USA.
Gentlemen, Looking at the posts regarding this idea of a National Carry Permit, there aren't too many good things that I can see arising from such legislation.
1. As many folks have said, it creates a national database of handgun owners -BUT it could also be a red flag to the government indicating the possible presence of additional long guns those handgunners "MAY" also have in their household)
2. Instead of an all encompassing Federal Law to create a special federal carry permit, as an alternative; Whats wrong with drafting federal legislation to require all the states to recognize each others carry permits under reciprosity agreements the same way they currently all recognise each others drivers licenses.
Most states already have some type of system of gun ownership in place, so reciprocal agreements would take the burden & cost of regulation off of Federal government In fact a lot of states already issue non-resident carry permits anyways,(Except New Jersey, where they don't even allow pointed ends on kids crayons, I think) You don't need a special drivers license to go into an adjoining state, and a mis-use of a car or truck can be just as deadly as a handgun.
OOOOH! I forgot to follow the money!! Cars and trucks are responsible for transporting materials and sellable goods for busine$$, and bringing in tourist$ dollar$ Gun ownership doesn't generate anywhere near that kind of money.
quote:Originally posted by cabnetman
Highball,
I am enjoying the forum and you're right, there is a lot of good people and great ideas being tossed around here.
I hear a lot of complaints here regarding the NRA. Understand that I have no misconceptions about them; however, I am a supporter of the NRA and for these reasons. There is no perfect anything, and 90% of what they believe in, is in line with my beliefs. They have the political clout to influence elections. I don't see or know of any other pro gun organizations (and there are a lot of good ones out there) that come anywhere near their influence. So, my humble feeling is that we need to support them, and just as we are trying to change the government, we need to be working just as hard to change the NRA and bring it in line with what the 2nd says. I think that any of the leaders in the NRA are pro 2nd amendment and they are just trying to get the best laws that can be had for us. Sometimes, coming in 2nd is better than coming in last.
My concern is, that we have the attitude that we will only settle for the best, i.e. exactly what the constitution says and we can take that attitude right down the slippery slope to where we no longer have any gun rights. A very sad day in America when that happens. Of course, these are only my opinions.
Good Point Bill,
Also I believe the NRA could be more of what the people want because they are a private organization. The members including myself need to let them know what is important to US.
I have been involved in Politics and on different committees here in Anaheim California and A good understanding of how politics works is Important. Its now always black and white, there are allot of gray area's.
There are so many opinions, readings and understanding of what the 2nd amendment really means. Some are way out there some make sense and others are just what people want it to believe.
Laws are often passed with little known direction of how to enforce them and often trample the constitution. Anything that sounds logical and will excite the constituents. AB962 for example here in California.
The Ban on the 50 Cal BMG because it could be used for this or that. But never was!
Assault weapons Ban! This one I'm really mad about because if the 2nd amendment means any thing it means we have a right to protect ourselves from Government Tyranny which by the way can carry assult weapons.
It seems that their should be a law that requires that every time a new law is passed an old one should be taken off the books because if we keep going like this it will be illegal to breath more than your share of allotted air.
Hi, I was a member of the NRA for approximatly 20 years and discontinued my membership when it seemed that the NRA had sort of lost its grass roots heritage and had become commercialized. I realize in this day and age that it takes money to buy air time, place megazine and newspaper ads, and organize meetings and events. I also know that lobbiests don't work for free either, After the formation of anti-gun organizations such as Handgun Control and others, it seemed that both sides of this issue was just using each other as a sort of boogie-man to scare the hell out of their constituants, Sarah Brady warned us that our families lives were in danger from the merciless immoral gun owning NRA members and what happened Ka-Ching!! The anti-gunners started pouring in money. Wayne Lapierre's NRA, then started hinting of the days in the future when "jack-booted" government thugs would take your guns and with it your means to defend your family. Both sides fed off of each other, and in the mean time when NRA members wanted to draw a line in the sand, the NRA adopted a strategy of accepting "laws that we can live with" in an effort to compromise. Hell!! There is no compromising when it comes to your rights, you either have them or you don't. Compromising on your rights is-like trying to tell someone you're a JUST A LITTLE BIT pregnant.
By the way, speaking of organizations that have anti-gun leanings what about AARP. With such a large number of members, very many of them, elderly people, who grew up in an era where more people enjoyed gun ownership and the shooting sports. I guess they like being old and comfortable rather than speak out and offend the organization. Must be why I've never been a team player? Doug the Mug
quote:Wayne Lapierre's NRA, then started hinting of the days in the future when "jack-booted" government thugs would take your guns and with it your means to defend your family. Do you think for one minute that the "jack-booted government thugs" wouldn't take away all you gun rights if given the chance. I may not agree with all that the NRA does (or doesn't do) but I beleive they are one of the main reasons that we have the gun rights that we have now. Tell me what other organization would have any ability to do the job that the NRA has done in fighting for our rights? Like I've said before; sometimes it's better to come in 2nd than last. Do you like this senerio;the NRA no longer exists. How-bout-that. Now see how long you keep what gun rights you have.
I don't doubt it for a minute that the "jack-booted government thugs would TRY to take away guns if they could, only being politicians mostly of the weak knee variety they would try to do it in a more stealthy manner through laws. As a previous posting said, often many of these laws are passed with the goal of keeping political contributors smiling while opening their wallets, and these legislators haven't the foggiest idea of how to actually put "boots on the ground" and enforce the laws they make. Often I've noticed that when a new but practically unenforcible law comes out, those law enforcement officials make a few arrests to show they are doing their job. Then the courts throw the book at those first few folks that are arrested, in an effort to make an EXAMPLE of them through the news media. Generally its enforcement through scare tactics, because the magnitude of people not complying with the law is so large there aren't enough cops or military to enforce it.
Look at prohibition for instance, or more currently at laws governing cell phone use or texting while driving. A few generations down the road, where the liberal media and political correctness have taken their toll and erroded the attitudes of our population -Yes!! We will definitely be in trouble then.
As far as law enforcement or the military coming to your home and siezing your guns-How many houses do you actually think they'd hit before people started to their guns or the word got out and it evolved into a full scale nation-wide revolt Cops and the military don't work for free, and despite all our super technology and manpower we haven't been to sucessfully disarm rag-tag 3rd world zealots in the Mid-East. I don't think the jack booted thug scenario is an option. It couldn't happen in Germany in the 1930's until the vast majority of Germans were so enthralled with Hitler, they felt that turning over their guns was proper thing to do, and even then there were quite a few that didn't. Look at Australia's big gun siezure- Tell me all those ranchers in the outback that keep guns for protection, turned in their guns- Yeah Right!! Surrrre they did.
Doug the Mug
I'm looking at getting a concealed permit. I am in El Dorado county in California and it's one of the few in the state that it's possible if you have a business and reason. I had a stereo business I was running out of my home and had a guy trying to extort me out of equipment. He kept running into me with a sidearm on around the house. It was serious enough that I carried when I went into town. I got back to my house after being gone for an hour and this guy was in the driveway in a truck with a friend waiting for me. He walked up to the car right next to my window and said he was there to pick up some equipment. I stuck a Beretta in his face and told him "not today it ain't happening". I let him go rather than call the Sheriff's and have to deal with him when he got out of jail, but I did call to report the situation and described the guy and his tattoos. I was told that with that history and the kind of cash I took in that I shouldn't have any problems getting a concealed weapon permit. I had one last time the guy tried again and I started to draw on him to where he dropped to the ground an yelled "don't shoot". I was set on ending it but my wife came out and told me not to shoot him. I told her to go in the house and she refused. I think the guy got the idea that if my wife hadn't been around he was dead. It turns out the police had identified him as someone known and that he had been imprisoned for extortion, he had also shot a cop and got off on a technicality. The police told me to take him out just be sure to make it that I feared for my life. I never saw him again but I still want the permit so I am armed when I show up to the house. I was really afraid he would get to me through my wife as the weak link. That was a scary feeling knowing she was down in her veterinary clinic while I was up at the house.
quote:Originally posted by cabnetman
quote:Wayne Lapierre's NRA, then started hinting of the days in the future when "jack-booted" government thugs would take your guns and with it your means to defend your family. Do you think for one minute that the "jack-booted government thugs" wouldn't take away all you gun rights if given the chance. I may not agree with all that the NRA does (or doesn't do) but I beleive they are one of the main reasons that we have the gun rights that we have now. Tell me what other organization would have any ability to do the job that the NRA has done in fighting for our rights? Like I've said before; sometimes it's better to come in 2nd than last. Do you like this senerio;the NRA no longer exists. How-bout-that. Now see how long you keep what gun rights you have.
There are a lot of different movements that are insidious. My wife is an avian specialty veterinarian with an extensive commercial poultry industry background. She gets asked to testify at senate hearings on animal rights issues to testify in opposition to trumped up cruelty and environmental objections. While animal rights activists pick on one issue at a time they really don't want any animal kept in cages for food at all period. The california egg layer cage size issue trashes the egg industry in this state. As compliance is neared we will lose our egg industry. california has one of the best regulated poultry industries in the country, you don't even worry about things like salmonella here. When the state is importing Mexican eggs and salmonella is a factor because good eggs are cost prohibitive people will realize what was done when it's too late to bring back the industry we had.<br>
<br>
All infringements no matter what we are talking about have to be watched for farther reaching implications than are being represented at face value. Believe it or not animal rights people do not want us to have pets, and I'm serious as a heart attack. They regulate breeders state by state, county by county in ways that put breeders out of business. It's no joke but you might need your guns to protect your dogs. Sort of the same thing, they can mess with breeders and gun dealers and make it harder to get what you want but they will never take away our dogs or our guns, there is a line that is pretty far fetched to cross.
Comments
I would like to read it, however, your link is GONE! Who took that link? Another sneaky politician?
Here is the link
I would like to read it, however, your link is GONE! Who took that link? Another sneaky politician?
Heres the link
http://www.nationalgunrights.org/
New Member
USA
63 Posts
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 3:53:56 PM
Well, I agree that it's a right and not a privilege. However, I also keep asking myself that if it's a right, then why do I have a CC permit? You all should be asking the same question
The question has been asked..and answered many times on this forum.
Allow me to shorten it ;
The 'greatest generation' came home heros, exhausted after many years of fighting. They rested on their laurels..and allowed their OWN contry to be stolen out from underneath them.
They raised generations of ignorant children..taught them to obey the law. The law was corrupted.
The children were raised cowards, many of them.......and today you see a Nation of them. Cowards.
Slackers.
Shirkers.
Many utterly stupid.
You have a CCW because you live under TYRANNY...and are doing nothing about it.
quote:cabnetman
New Member
USA
63 Posts
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 3:53:56 PM
Well, I agree that it's a right and not a privilege. However, I also keep asking myself that if it's a right, then why do I have a CC permit? You all should be asking the same question
The question has been asked..and answered many times on this forum.
Allow me to shorten it ;
The 'greatest generation' came home heros, exhausted after many years of fighting. They rested on their laurels..and allowed their OWN contry to be stolen out from underneath them.
They raised generations of ignorant children..taught them to obey the law. The law was corrupted.
The children were raised cowards, many of them.......and today you see a Nation of them. Cowards.
Slackers.
Shirkers.
Many utterly stupid.
You have a CCW because you live under TYRANNY...and are doing nothing about it.
Get caught with a concealed weapon and no CCW go to jail, how can we change this? Its easy to point the finger. one should look in the mirror from time to time and ask what can I do to change the laws that take our rights away. Often its easier to talk the talk but are you willing to walk the walk?
Begin to grasp that we live under tyranny. A 'soft tyranny, yet..but the hard one is coming.
Obey the laws...all you can stomach.
Gte the CCW..as LONG as you understand that you are obeying TYRANNY ..and not acquiring the 'Right to carry'.
THAT was taken away a long time ago..unless you are willing to accept the consequences of disobeying that tyranny.
Get out of the corrupted political system and prepare yourself and your loved ones for hard times...very hard times.
I see NO VALUE in helping to perpetuate this present system..and HAVEN'T for about 30 years.
The only answer is to work tirelessly to restore the Republic..and that means changing mens minds, one at a time.
New Member
USA
64 Posts
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 10:46:33 AM
I'm willing to walk the walk, but don't know which direction to start walking
Every man makes his own decisions.
My opinion ;
Obey the laws of the land, as well as you can understand the conflicting maze of them.
You are worth more free then jailed.
Educate yourself on the meaning of the Constitution, and the ideals of the Republic. (Reading this forum would be a splendid start..lots of damn good people posting information on here)
Begin to educate those around you.
Prepare yourself and those around you for hard times. Gather some supplies, and train yourself in disciplines that would be of value in a Third World country.
Understand what the word Tyranny means..and its application to this country today.
I am enjoying the forum and you're right, there is a lot of good people and great ideas being tossed around here.
I hear a lot of complaints here regarding the NRA. Understand that I have no misconceptions about them; however, I am a supporter of the NRA and for these reasons. There is no perfect anything, and 90% of what they believe in, is in line with my beliefs. They have the political clout to influence elections. I don't see or know of any other pro gun organizations (and there are a lot of good ones out there) that come anywhere near their influence. So, my humble feeling is that we need to support them, and just as we are trying to change the government, we need to be working just as hard to change the NRA and bring it in line with what the 2nd says. I think that any of the leaders in the NRA are pro 2nd amendment and they are just trying to get the best laws that can be had for us. Sometimes, coming in 2nd is better than coming in last.
My concern is, that we have the attitude that we will only settle for the best, i.e. exactly what the constitution says and we can take that attitude right down the slippery slope to where we no longer have any gun rights. A very sad day in America when that happens. Of course, these are only my opinions.
Yours is a common viewpoint among gun owners.
I believe it to be wrong...deadly wrong.
I believe , after witnessing the last 50 years, that that viewpoint will eventually so water down the Second that there will come a time we have no guns at all.
Period.
I believe that the only way to keep a government in line is when THEY fear the people. Their only reason to fear the people is because those people are fully armed..and prepared to take this country away from them.
One cannot accomplish this when government knows every gun owner, all their weapons, and those armed people are bowing and scrapping to their Masters.
'The Bill of Rights' is JUST THAT....RIGHTS. Not to be touched by slimy, sleazy madmen in government.
I see no `Bill of Privileges' when I read the Constitution and related documents....
We have CC permits now because that's the law. We fill out all the required paper work to buy a gun, because that's the law. We can only sell or buy guns thru an FFL dealer, because that's the law. It's not what the second says, far from it, but it's the law. I don't like it, but we can still have our guns.
I was raised in an era when I took my 30-06 to school and set it in the corner of the class room and after school, went to the woods behind the school deer hunting, and no one gave it a second thought. That's where we need to be today. Yes, the bills of rights is just that and so is the constitution, but try and tell that to our law makers. We need to fight like hell to change the laws and I can't do it by myself nor can you. So, as I've said, like it or not, we need someone like the NRA with their clout to help change the law. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any other way to make it happen.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=372896
Looks like if we want to be able to own guns in the future, we're going to have to move to Afghanistan, Pakistan or Somalia. Not really a place I would like to raise me kids in.
It's been said many times and many ways, but...while it seems like a "good" thing to have a national CCW law, guess whose hands the control of the law winds up in? Yep, you guessed...the Executive Branch of government, meaning Obama, Holder, etc. Are you ready for that? Sneaky bustards...pass a national CCW law, then control it! It takes the rights of the states away. I'll vote for state-by-state reciprocity, thank you. We need more states rights and much less federal government.
quote:Could not have said it better!
It's been said many times and many ways, but...while it seems like a "good" thing to have a national CCW law, guess whose hands the control of the law winds up in? Yep, you guessed...the Executive Branch of government, meaning Obama, Holder, etc. Are you ready for that? Sneaky bustards...pass a national CCW law, then control it! It takes the rights of the states away. I'll vote for state-by-state reciprocity, thank you. We need more states rights and much less federal government.
Well that's certainly the other side of the coin that I didn't see. Thank for turning over the coin.[;)]
Very interesting. Well I guess what all of us NRA members should do is just cancel are membership. That'll teach em.
Well, that's a start. I did, because I refuse to align with any organization who attempts to undermine the RTKBA.
quote:
Looks like if we want to be able to own guns in the future, we're going to have to move to Afghanistan, Pakistan or Somalia. Not really a place I would like to raise me kids in.
Not I.
I was born here (and I have an original birth certificate to prove it), raised here, and I intend on staying. This is my home, and it is where I will raise my kids.
And I intend to keep all my firearms, every damn one of them.
Problem is, the only 'laws' that the NRA goes about 'changing' are newly proposed legislation, which further restrict firearms, or further cements the mistaken-belief of gun 'privilege', rather than gun 'rights'.
Also, the NRA does not work to repeal Federal gun-control laws, rather, they continually pressure, lobby and brag about their 'Project-Exile', which is a strict enforcement campaign for Federal Firearms Laws.
Can anyone say "Quisling"?
I think it came about from lobby groups representing the insurance industry. I think their concern was more for the folks whose faces are on the bills in their wallets than for the drivers that bought their insurance. Doug the Mug -Follow the money its the REAL motive behind much of this stuff.
Congress has usurped its authority in every sector of our life. Where does the Constitution give them the right for health care or prescription drugs? They don't have the right; they took it because that's what the people wanted. That is the same path that we are going down with the 2 nd. It is not what the constitution says anymore, it's what the people want, and that is going down a very slippery path and I don't have an answer as to how to stop it. Not sure it can be stopped. That is one of the reasons I was happy about the outcome of the Heller case. You can say all sorts of bad things about that case, but at least it has established law precedence.
The people Don't want Government one size fits all health care or the banks being bailed out and the government intrusion into the automotive industry, They don't always do what the people want. Interesting post guys!
1. As many folks have said, it creates a national database of handgun owners -BUT it could also be a red flag to the government indicating the possible presence of additional long guns those handgunners "MAY" also have in their household)
2. Instead of an all encompassing Federal Law to create a special federal carry permit, as an alternative; Whats wrong with drafting federal legislation to require all the states to recognize each others carry permits under reciprosity agreements the same way they currently all recognise each others drivers licenses.
Most states already have some type of system of gun ownership in place, so reciprocal agreements would take the burden & cost of regulation off of Federal government In fact a lot of states already issue non-resident carry permits anyways,(Except New Jersey, where they don't even allow pointed ends on kids crayons, I think) You don't need a special drivers license to go into an adjoining state, and a mis-use of a car or truck can be just as deadly as a handgun.
OOOOH! I forgot to follow the money!! Cars and trucks are responsible for transporting materials and sellable goods for busine$$, and bringing in tourist$ dollar$ Gun ownership doesn't generate anywhere near that kind of money.
Doug the Mug
Highball,
I am enjoying the forum and you're right, there is a lot of good people and great ideas being tossed around here.
I hear a lot of complaints here regarding the NRA. Understand that I have no misconceptions about them; however, I am a supporter of the NRA and for these reasons. There is no perfect anything, and 90% of what they believe in, is in line with my beliefs. They have the political clout to influence elections. I don't see or know of any other pro gun organizations (and there are a lot of good ones out there) that come anywhere near their influence. So, my humble feeling is that we need to support them, and just as we are trying to change the government, we need to be working just as hard to change the NRA and bring it in line with what the 2nd says. I think that any of the leaders in the NRA are pro 2nd amendment and they are just trying to get the best laws that can be had for us. Sometimes, coming in 2nd is better than coming in last.
My concern is, that we have the attitude that we will only settle for the best, i.e. exactly what the constitution says and we can take that attitude right down the slippery slope to where we no longer have any gun rights. A very sad day in America when that happens. Of course, these are only my opinions.
Good Point Bill,
Also I believe the NRA could be more of what the people want because they are a private organization. The members including myself need to let them know what is important to US.
I have been involved in Politics and on different committees here in Anaheim California and A good understanding of how politics works is Important. Its now always black and white, there are allot of gray area's.
There are so many opinions, readings and understanding of what the 2nd amendment really means. Some are way out there some make sense and others are just what people want it to believe.
Laws are often passed with little known direction of how to enforce them and often trample the constitution. Anything that sounds logical and will excite the constituents. AB962 for example here in California.
The Ban on the 50 Cal BMG because it could be used for this or that. But never was!
Assault weapons Ban! This one I'm really mad about because if the 2nd amendment means any thing it means we have a right to protect ourselves from Government Tyranny which by the way can carry assult weapons.
It seems that their should be a law that requires that every time a new law is passed an old one should be taken off the books because if we keep going like this it will be illegal to breath more than your share of allotted air.
By the way, speaking of organizations that have anti-gun leanings what about AARP. With such a large number of members, very many of them, elderly people, who grew up in an era where more people enjoyed gun ownership and the shooting sports. I guess they like being old and comfortable rather than speak out and offend the organization. Must be why I've never been a team player? Doug the Mug
Look at prohibition for instance, or more currently at laws governing cell phone use or texting while driving. A few generations down the road, where the liberal media and political correctness have taken their toll and erroded the attitudes of our population -Yes!! We will definitely be in trouble then.
As far as law enforcement or the military coming to your home and siezing your guns-How many houses do you actually think they'd hit before people started to their guns or the word got out and it evolved into a full scale nation-wide revolt Cops and the military don't work for free, and despite all our super technology and manpower we haven't been to sucessfully disarm rag-tag 3rd world zealots in the Mid-East. I don't think the jack booted thug scenario is an option. It couldn't happen in Germany in the 1930's until the vast majority of Germans were so enthralled with Hitler, they felt that turning over their guns was proper thing to do, and even then there were quite a few that didn't. Look at Australia's big gun siezure- Tell me all those ranchers in the outback that keep guns for protection, turned in their guns- Yeah Right!! Surrrre they did.
Doug the Mug
quote:Wayne Lapierre's NRA, then started hinting of the days in the future when "jack-booted" government thugs would take your guns and with it your means to defend your family. Do you think for one minute that the "jack-booted government thugs" wouldn't take away all you gun rights if given the chance. I may not agree with all that the NRA does (or doesn't do) but I beleive they are one of the main reasons that we have the gun rights that we have now. Tell me what other organization would have any ability to do the job that the NRA has done in fighting for our rights? Like I've said before; sometimes it's better to come in 2nd than last. Do you like this senerio;the NRA no longer exists. How-bout-that. Now see how long you keep what gun rights you have.
There are a lot of different movements that are insidious. My wife is an avian specialty veterinarian with an extensive commercial poultry industry background. She gets asked to testify at senate hearings on animal rights issues to testify in opposition to trumped up cruelty and environmental objections. While animal rights activists pick on one issue at a time they really don't want any animal kept in cages for food at all period. The california egg layer cage size issue trashes the egg industry in this state. As compliance is neared we will lose our egg industry. california has one of the best regulated poultry industries in the country, you don't even worry about things like salmonella here. When the state is importing Mexican eggs and salmonella is a factor because good eggs are cost prohibitive people will realize what was done when it's too late to bring back the industry we had.<br>
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All infringements no matter what we are talking about have to be watched for farther reaching implications than are being represented at face value. Believe it or not animal rights people do not want us to have pets, and I'm serious as a heart attack. They regulate breeders state by state, county by county in ways that put breeders out of business. It's no joke but you might need your guns to protect your dogs. Sort of the same thing, they can mess with breeders and gun dealers and make it harder to get what you want but they will never take away our dogs or our guns, there is a line that is pretty far fetched to cross.