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Forum Title

HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
Perhaps it is time to consider changing the forum title.

None of us are lawyers, and the Constitutional issues we debate are arcane. We have a steady influx of people asking questions most all of us are unqualified to answer.
Fact is..the people in 'authority' are unable to answer most of them well enough to keep some puss-gutted badge-toter from hassling or arresting you...

The other side of the coin..how smart is it asking for legal advice on a forum ? That and a buck will get you a roll of TP.....

Comments

  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Agreed Bert.

    'Constitutional Law' is a rather lofty title and far beyond what is regularly discussed here.

    "Law" is a lawyerly subject, oft used as cover to circumvent the "Constitutional" part of the equation.

    Perhaps Gun 'issues' and Constitutional 'discussions' would be more accurate.

    I personally would prefer the title to be something akin to "Individual Liberty & The Constitution".
  • BGHillbillyBGHillbilly Member Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeap, water things down a bit more.
    Ya'll just suggested removing our 'rights' and put forth the idea that the Constitution is not 'Law'
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by BGHillbilly
    Yeap, water things down a bit more.
    Ya'll just suggested removing our 'rights' and put forth the idea that the Constitution is not 'Law'


    An obvious miss, by a large margin, in you assessment of intent, Mr. hillbilly.

    You illustrate exactly the reason for my reply.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Why be a 'hillbilly' unless you can spit thru those busted front teeth...and totally misinterpret a simple thought ?
  • cash777cash777 Member Posts: 213 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Having posted my question on Pa father to son transfer on this named forum I would not take any information I received "to the bank" so to speak, I was more or less looking for a general opinion and would do my own research and make my own decisions. I could have posted on general discussion or ASK THE EXPERTS but is that the proper name for that forum?
  • BGHillbillyBGHillbilly Member Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My idea was that instead of watering down the name to fit the discussion, we need the discussion to step up and fit the title.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:BGHillbilly
    Junior Member



    USA
    232 Posts
    Posted - 10/08/2009 : 12:21:34 PM

    My idea was that instead of watering down the name to fit the discussion, we need the discussion to step up and fit the title.

    I can tell you what 'Shall Not Be Infringed' means in a few words.

    "Get out of my face."

    We here have these types of discussions ongoing. Where YOU been ?

    I do not intend learning the insane 'color of laws' of 50 states and the fed beast in order to fulfill your desires...sorry.

    Those discussions have NOTHING to do with the Constitution..and everything to do with increasing the power of the Beast.
  • codenamepaulcodenamepaul Member Posts: 2,931
    edited November -1
    How 'bout just Gun Rights.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Perhaps it is time to consider changing the forum title.

    None of us are lawyers, and the Constitutional issues we debate are arcane. We have a steady influx of people asking questions most all of us are unqualified to answer.
    Fact is..the people in 'authority' are unable to answer most of them well enough to keep some puss-gutted badge-toter from hassling or arresting you...

    The other side of the coin..how smart is it asking for legal advice on a forum ? That and a buck will get you a roll of TP.....


    Geez Highball, on occasion you truly show signs of brilliance.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by BGHillbilly
    Yeap, water things down a bit more.
    Ya'll just suggested removing our 'rights' and put forth the idea that the Constitution is not 'Law'




    The constitution is NOT law. Sometimes I wish it were and other times I am grateful it is not. But laws are supposed to be supported by and sprung from the constitution.
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,998
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    quote:Originally posted by BGHillbilly
    Yeap, water things down a bit more.
    Ya'll just suggested removing our 'rights' and put forth the idea that the Constitution is not 'Law'




    The constitution is NOT law.


    I submit that it is;


    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.


    In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


    You see, it is law, and it binds those governing, not the governed.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    quote:Originally posted by BGHillbilly
    Yeap, water things down a bit more.
    Ya'll just suggested removing our 'rights' and put forth the idea that the Constitution is not 'Law'




    The constitution is NOT law. Sometimes I wish it were and other times I am grateful it is not. But laws are supposed to be supported by and sprung from the constitution.
    The Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the United States. It is the foundation and source of the legal authority underlying the existence of the United States of America and the federal government of the United States. It provides the framework for the organization of the United States government and for the relationship of the federal government to the states, to citizens, and to all people within the United States.

    U.S. Constitution - Article VI

    All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,593 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox

    The constitution is NOT law.


    Epic Fail.



    To Highball's original point: Unfortunately, the forum has been watered down. I'd love to see more Constitutional discussions and a little less "Is this gun legal in my state?"

    Hell, I even posted a freakin' Healthcare question in an attempt to get the ball rolling.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lt496
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    quote:Originally posted by BGHillbilly
    Yeap, water things down a bit more.
    Ya'll just suggested removing our 'rights' and put forth the idea that the Constitution is not 'Law'




    The constitution is NOT law. Sometimes I wish it were and other times I am grateful it is not. But laws are supposed to be supported by and sprung from the constitution.
    The Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the United States. It is the foundation and source of the legal authority underlying the existence of the United States of America and the federal government of the United States. It provides the framework for the organization of the United States government and for the relationship of the federal government to the states, to citizens, and to all people within the United States.

    U.S. Constitution - Article VI

    All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.


    I have taken this sentence out of the quotes above:

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all

    If the constitution is indeed law, then why does the above sentence treat "Laws" and the "Constitution" as separate entities? This separate treatment of laws and the constitution is found often.

    Why do you think the the term used in college studies of the constitution is labeled "constitutional law?" Such term clearly shows a distinction between "laws" and the "constitution."

    In fact, eveyone should be glad that the constitution is not a "law." Now it is very, very difficult to make any changes in the constitution mainly because it is the "constitution" and is not a "law." Everyone here knows how easily "laws" are passed/changed/eliminated. Luckily, since the constitution is a unique document (a constitution) it is not so easily altered.

    JMHO
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    quote:Originally posted by lt496
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    quote:Originally posted by BGHillbilly
    Yeap, water things down a bit more.
    Ya'll just suggested removing our 'rights' and put forth the idea that the Constitution is not 'Law'




    The constitution is NOT law. Sometimes I wish it were and other times I am grateful it is not. But laws are supposed to be supported by and sprung from the constitution.
    The Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the United States. It is the foundation and source of the legal authority underlying the existence of the United States of America and the federal government of the United States. It provides the framework for the organization of the United States government and for the relationship of the federal government to the states, to citizens, and to all people within the United States.

    U.S. Constitution - Article VI

    All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.


    I have taken this sentence out of the quotes above:

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all

    If the constitution is indeed law, then why does the above sentence treat "Laws" and the "Constitution" as separate entities? This separate treatment of laws and the constitution is found often.

    Why do you think the the term used in college studies of the constitution is labeled "constitutional law?" Such term clearly shows a distinction between "laws" and the "constitution."

    In fact, eveyone should be glad that the constitution is not a "law." Now it is very, very difficult to make any changes in the constitution mainly because it is the "constitution" and is not a "law." Everyone here knows how easily "laws" are passed/changed/eliminated. Luckily, since the constitution is a unique document (a constitution) it is not so easily altered.

    JMHO
    You should have taken note of Rack Ops' reference to your "Epic Fail" on this point and left well enough alone.

    Once again, please take note of this quote and then apply cognitive reasoning to it........'This Constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof;'......'shall be the supreme Law of the Land;'.

    Just FYI and so you know, the 'Declaration of Independence' is also codified into law, under US Code.

    As for another of your questions of 'why'......'constitutional law' is law that is not found in the 'text' of the Constitution, but is that which was made 'in pursuance thereof'. **See the above quote in bold.

    I now understand why you have been blinded and fooled by the NRA and why you believe that their actions are within the framework of the Constitution.

    You simply don't understand the whole issue. Just so you know.........

    You can, however, likely learn with a bit-o-study. You should read much of what 'ideals and principles' have been posted here on GB by those who advocate for Individual Liberty.

    Use those principles and stated ideals as a beginning for your own study. You'll likely be amazed by what you self-discover.

    Good luck and let me know if I can assist in focusing your studies, really.
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,822 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lt496
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    quote:Originally posted by lt496
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    quote:Originally posted by BGHillbilly
    Yeap, water things down a bit more.
    Ya'll just suggested removing our 'rights' and put forth the idea that the Constitution is not 'Law'




    The constitution is NOT law. Sometimes I wish it were and other times I am grateful it is not. But laws are supposed to be supported by and sprung from the constitution.
    The Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the United States. It is the foundation and source of the legal authority underlying the existence of the United States of America and the federal government of the United States. It provides the framework for the organization of the United States government and for the relationship of the federal government to the states, to citizens, and to all people within the United States.

    U.S. Constitution - Article VI

    All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.


    I have taken this sentence out of the quotes above:

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all

    If the constitution is indeed law, then why does the above sentence treat "Laws" and the "Constitution" as separate entities? This separate treatment of laws and the constitution is found often.

    Why do you think the the term used in college studies of the constitution is labeled "constitutional law?" Such term clearly shows a distinction between "laws" and the "constitution."

    In fact, eveyone should be glad that the constitution is not a "law." Now it is very, very difficult to make any changes in the constitution mainly because it is the "constitution" and is not a "law." Everyone here knows how easily "laws" are passed/changed/eliminated. Luckily, since the constitution is a unique document (a constitution) it is not so easily altered.

    JMHO
    You should have taken note of Rack Ops' reference to your "Epic Fail" on this point and left well enough alone.

    Once again, please take note of this quote and then apply cognitive reasoning to it........'This Constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof;'......'shall be the supreme Law of the Land;'.
    Just FYI and so you know, the 'Declaration of Independence' is also codified into law, under US Code.

    As for another of your questions of 'why'......'constitutional law' is law that is not found in the 'text' of the Constitution, but is that which was made 'in pursuance thereof'. **See the above quote in bold.

    I now understand why you have been blinded and fooled by the NRA and why you believe that their actions are within the framework of the Constitution.

    You simply don't understand the whole issue. Just so you know.........

    You can, however, likely learn with a bit-o-study. You should read much of what 'ideals and principles' have been posted here on GB by those who advocate for Individual Liberty.

    Use those principles and stated ideals as a beginning for your own study. You'll likely be amazed by what you self-discover.

    Good luck and let me know if I can assist in focusing your studies, really.




    Seems pretty simple for THIS 'simple-mind' at least.[;)]
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • Rack OpsRack Ops Member Posts: 18,593 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox

    In fact, eveyone should be glad that the constitution is not a "law."


    If the Constitution was not the Supreme Law of the United States, then laws could not be struck down as "Unconstitutional".
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,822 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox

    In fact, eveyone should be glad that the constitution is not a "law."


    If the Constitution was not the Supreme Law of the United States, then laws could not be struck down as "Unconstitutional".

    Rack,.....there you go thinking again![:p]
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • steveaustinsteveaustin Member Posts: 852 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I try to keep my thread constitutionaly focused. However, if you guys are willing to ckeck in and read then I wouldn't mind including some world news. Pickenup, let me know if that's ok.

    In regards to to the rules, the rules that are written in "legislative language" by lobbyists, that crap has to go. It shouldn't take an attorney to understand the rules of our society.

    Steve
  • pickenuppickenup Member, Moderator Posts: 22,397 ******
    edited November -1
    Steve, email sent.
  • steveaustinsteveaustin Member Posts: 852 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    recieved, and thanks again. still readin up on J1.
  • RocklobsterRocklobster Member Posts: 7,060
    edited November -1
    I believe that we can clear this up easily. All that is necessary is to write to our president and request his advice, since he is a constitutional scholar and actually taught constitutional law.
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