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Strategy To Thwart Gun Registration Efforts
Wyatt Earp
Member Posts: 5,871
This might sound a tad hairbrained, but here goes. Most of us have guns we don't want to part with, and we also have a gun or two that is just a gun, nothing special. I suggest a massive gun swap of the "just a guns."
Here's how it would work. A simple internet site could be set up to share with each other, guns they have to swap, e.g.: "I have a S&W Sigma 9mm in 90% condition and will trade for similar gun." Essentially you'd be ending up with the same gun, but there would quickly be hundreds of thousands, and eventually millions, of guns whose owners don't match the serial numbers. This would virtually collapse the government's ability to track gun ownership.
Some obstacles are trusting that the individual you're swapping with has accuraterly represented his gun. One workaround for that is that many of us have eBay accounts, and although the swap could not be done on eBay, you could check out a seller's eBay rating - if he has a 100% eBay rating, chances are the guy is a straight shooter (pun intended).
Here's how it would work. A simple internet site could be set up to share with each other, guns they have to swap, e.g.: "I have a S&W Sigma 9mm in 90% condition and will trade for similar gun." Essentially you'd be ending up with the same gun, but there would quickly be hundreds of thousands, and eventually millions, of guns whose owners don't match the serial numbers. This would virtually collapse the government's ability to track gun ownership.
Some obstacles are trusting that the individual you're swapping with has accuraterly represented his gun. One workaround for that is that many of us have eBay accounts, and although the swap could not be done on eBay, you could check out a seller's eBay rating - if he has a 100% eBay rating, chances are the guy is a straight shooter (pun intended).
Comments
I don't see how that solves the problem. They are gonna come and ask where the AK you bought in 1990 is and what are you going to tell them? You gonna rat out the guy you traded with? Lie to them? If your gonna lie then why swap just straight out lie. Don't know that I want guns registered to me at any time floating around out there in someone else's hands without me being able to explain where it went.
No lying is required. Where in the law does it say I have to keep track of guns I've sold? If "they" come knocking at your door asking for you to account for your guns, it's too late in the game for niceties - just tell the guy you don't own it anymore and it's not your responsibility to account for who has the gun now. That would be the truth on both accounts. That's fighting fire with fire - if they're going to use deception and subterfuge to confiscate guns, I don't think that's the time to worry about appeasing them.
The bigger point tho is their motive. I mean, really, if they come looking for your guns we're in pretty deep. My "motive" is not to amass guns for a revolution - my motive is to frustrate their efforts to the degree that they never attempt to confiscate our guns. Some things are worth extra effort to protect - the Second Amendment is one of them.
And to your other point, unless and until they make it a law that we cannot sell our guns to other individuals, the law is on your side in the unlikely event that it falls into the hands of a bad guy.
Now..why do you suppose they are trying really hard to shut down gun shows ?
I don't see how that solves the problem. They are gonna come and ask where the AK you bought in 1990 is and what are you going to tell them? You gonna rat out the guy you traded with? Lie to them? If your gonna lie then why swap just straight out lie. Don't know that I want guns registered to me at any time floating around out there in someone else's hands without me being able to explain where it went.
Problem is all the guys like this who just have to be able to "explain" where their guns went. Those kind also usually want a bunch of ID from somebody they buy a firearm from
Problem is all the guys like this who just have to be able to "explain" where their guns went. Those kind also usually want a bunch of ID from somebody they buy a firearm from
Good point.
On any FTF purchase, if asked for ID, I move on. The goal is the creation of an unpapered weapon every bit as much as acquisition. In my neck of the woods, this is rarely a stumbling block, though it seems that there are more CYA types than there used to be.
I like the Red Baron's approach. If I understand the law correctly, we are legally limited to intrastate transactions today, but millions of weapons could lose their papers if this was put to good effect. FTF only requires that you look the man in the eye and have no reason to believe he cannot own what you are selling. Obviously if he has the same thing already, that condition is met.
edit:
Another option that I have been doing for the past few years is to give firearms as birthday and/or Christmas gifts for this same reason. The receiver gets something he will enjoy, and the transaction strips the registration from the weapon. Something to consider two weeks from today.
Brad Steele
On any FTF purchase, if asked for ID, I move on. The goal is the creation of an unpapered weapon every bit as much as acquisition. In my neck of the woods, this is rarely a stumbling block, though it seems that there are more CYA types than there used to be.
I like the Red Baron's approach. If I understand the law correctly, we are legally limited to intrastate transactions today, but millions of weapons could lose their papers if this was put to good effect. FTF only requires that you look the man in the eye and have no reason to believe he cannot own what you are selling. Obviously if he has the same thing already, that condition is met.
edit:
Another option that I have been doing for the past few years is to give firearms as birthday and/or Christmas gifts for this same reason. The receiver gets something he will enjoy, and the transaction strips the registration from the weapon. Something to consider two weeks from today.
Very spot on.
So we are back to "Man up, take the fight to them!"
I understand that this is very undesirable to most. It boils down to whether you have that individualist atttitude where freedom matters more than breathing, or collectivist where slavery is ok, as long as you are breathing.
This is all very nice, but the fact is, if/when it gets to this point, they're not going to simply stand at your door and ask you to either tell the truth or lie. (Moot) They will have seach warrant and you will already be in cuffs before they start looking for that weapon that is the same as the one you had, but different serial number. Correct?
So we are back to "Man up, take the fight to them!"
I understand that this is very undesirable to most. It boils down to whether you have that individualist atttitude where freedom matters more than breathing, or collectivist where slavery is ok, as long as you are breathing.
JP:
The 4th Amendment requires that the 'things to be seized' be 'particularly described'. The only way to particularly describe a firearm is with the S/N, so there is no way that they could take anything that was un-papered. Is there?[xx(]
Brad Steele
They will have no way of knowing you participated in such a swap program unless you decide to tell them. And they'd need to be prepared to handcuff an awful lot of people.
quote:So we are back to "Man up, take the fight to them!"
I understand that this is very undesirable to most. It boils down to whether you have that individualist atttitude where freedom matters more than breathing, or collectivist where slavery is ok, as long as you are breathing.
It doesn't have to come to that, imo. All that's necessary to back down a bully (guvmint) is to let him see that he cannot win...usually. :-) But yes, if it came to the point that the government were going door-to-door to confiscate guns, the situation will have become so dire that there's not much to lose by fighting for your rights.
The 4th Amendment requires that the 'things to be seized' be 'particularly described'. The only way to particularly describe a firearm is with the S/N, so there is no way that they could take anything that was un-papered. Is there?[xx(]
I don't think Obama's clan intends to be deterred by our Consitutional Rights. They've already said they think the document is outdated and unjust. It's kind of like if the Cowboys beat the Packers 21 to 20, but then the rules are changed after the game to say that fumbles deduct 2 points and a first down adds 1 point, therefor the Packers won. Obama's goons would like to retro-actively changes the rules of the game.
quote:
The 4th Amendment requires that the 'things to be seized' be 'particularly described'. The only way to particularly describe a firearm is with the S/N, so there is no way that they could take anything that was un-papered. Is there?[xx(]
I don't think Obama's clan intends to be deterred by our Consitutional Rights. They've already said they think the document is outdated and unjust. It's kind of like if the Cowboys beat the Packers 21 to 20, but then the rules are changed after the game to say that fumbles deduct 2 points and a first down adds 1 point, therefor the Packers won. Obama's goons would like to retro-actively changes the rules of the game.
It was a sarcastic comment, Red Baron.[;)]
Edit: FWIW, I doubt it really matters if it is Obama's clan, any other Democrat, or any Republican. Closing the 'loophole' after all, was a goal of both parties this last go-round.
Brad Steele
It was a sarcastic comment, Red Baron.[;)
I figured it was but I was looking for a step-stool to climb up on my soapbox, and that seemed like the perfect opportunity. [:)]
I don't have the answer, I just get an uneasy feeling that if we don't start noticing the water is getting warm, our 2nd will be cooked like frogs. I didn't serve our country's military, but I figure I still have a chance and obligation to defend our Constitution, Bill of Rights and amendments as they come under attack by those who have no clue how and why they came to be nor how important it is that they remain intact.
As I recall you are required to keep records of gun sale and purchases for 10 years according to Federal Law.
That might be the case in Ilinois slum, but here in CO, FTF sales are paperless, except for the cash.[;)]
As I recall you are required to keep records of gun sale and purchases for 10 years according to Federal Law.
Is failing to do so a misdemeanor?
That might be the case in Ilinois slum, but here in CO, FTF sales are paperless, except for the cash.[;)]
That's the only paper involved when I make a private gun purchase/sale.[^]
quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
That might be the case in Ilinois slum, but here in CO, FTF sales are paperless, except for the cash.[;)]
That's the only paper involved when I make a private gun purchase/sale.[^]
Not to stray too far off topic...but then, it's my thread so I guess that's ok. [:D]
Your screen name caught my eye. I'm a huge Clint Eastwood fan - named our son Clint. Aw the ol' West. I was born & raised in Dodge City, Kansas where my mom still lives in the house I was raised in - one of the oldest houses in Dodge which was said to be a courthouse at one time in which Bat Masterson and Wyatt Earp were in many times. Imagine sleeping in a house with that kind of history...many ghost stories from that house.
I digress...
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
That might be the case in Ilinois slum, but here in CO, FTF sales are paperless, except for the cash.[;)]
That's the only paper involved when I make a private gun purchase/sale.[^]
Not to stray too far off topic...but then, it's my thread so I guess that's ok. [:D]
Your screen name caught my eye. I'm a huge Clint Eastwood fan - named our son Clint. Aw the ol' West. I was born & raised in Dodge City, Kansas where my mom still lives in the house I was raised in - one of the oldest houses in Dodge which was said to be a courthouse at one time in which Bat Masterson and Wyatt Earp were in many times. Imagine sleeping in a house with that kind of history...many ghost stories from that house.
I digress...
[;)]