In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
NBC nightly news...again
jaegermister
Member Posts: 692 ✭✭✭✭
Well another shooting. Makes no difference the individual was mentally unstable the event still registers with the public as man opens fire with two automatic pistols.
Every time something like this happens another brick is taken from our foundation.
Any ideas on how to stop this or lessen the frequency.?
This is not a question of magazine capacity, hand grip, barrel length,
rate of fire etc etc. This concerns overall level of society.
I fear it will not be a question of legal right of gun ownership but rather are we as a society up to the responsibility level offered by the right?
Every time something like this happens another brick is taken from our foundation.
Any ideas on how to stop this or lessen the frequency.?
This is not a question of magazine capacity, hand grip, barrel length,
rate of fire etc etc. This concerns overall level of society.
I fear it will not be a question of legal right of gun ownership but rather are we as a society up to the responsibility level offered by the right?
Comments
Those crimes will occur in the absence of gun laws...they will occur with moderate gun laws...they will occur with total gun bans.
Rwandans murdered ONE MILLION CITIZENS in about 8 weeks...mostly with machetes.
So what exactly IS your point ?
I recall as a young person, many years ago, no one questioned
gun ownership. You could buy anti-tank rifles in the back of a magazine.
At 14 years old I bought 500 '06 black tip rounds...mail order.
There were politicians, there were guns...
there were mentally unstable people but you rarely heard of the
events which are weekly events now. These events are not in proportion to the population.
I am concerned as a society we are not living up to the responsibility
of the 2nd amendment.
There are over 300,000,000 people in this country, there are on average 15,000 murders each year... If that isnt proportional in your book I dont know what is.. .00005 percent of the population actively murder each year with guns, if you assume each murderer kills only one person...
On the other hand guns are annually used on average of 1.5 to 2 million times a year by the law abiding citizens to protect themselves and others from harm. they use guns to prevent animal maulings, Animal damage to propery, rape, murder, robbery, assault, and any mixture of those horrible things that seemingly unarmed victims are easy targets for..
I think you are injecting your personal emotions into it... Drugs and the loss of morality in this country account for the vast majority of violent crime... So, if you want to blame something, blame the lack of border control, drug laws that create a nitch for a lucrative black market, and the lack of honor of your fellow man, and mayhap yourself as well...
takeing away the individual right to self protection in its many capacities is never the solution. Though it may be touted as such by power hungry statists who so blindly overlook their own apalling failings.
In my opinion tax paying people, we the people, are handicapped enough by gun laws. No doubt in more then a few cases fatally so.
Error corrected thanks to Red. Thanks Red..
of the 2nd amendment.
I am sorry...you simply do not get to accuse ME...'SOCIETY'....of the mis-deeds of the few.
NOR do you get to curtail MY Rights...simply because you live in fear of your fellow man, and worry about your ability to handle an incidence of violence in your proximity.
Sorry about that, skippy.
There are over 300,000,000 people in this country, there are on average 1,500 murders each year... If that isnt proportional in your book I dont know what is.. .000005 percent of the population actively murder each year, if you assume each murderer kills only one person...
On the other hand guns are annually used on average of 1.5 to 2 million times a year by the law abiding citizens to protect themselves and others from harm. they use guns to prevent animal maulings, Animal damage to propery, rape, murder, robbery, assault, and any mixture of those horrible things that seemingly unarmed victims are easy targets for..
I think you are injecting your personal emotions into it... Drugs and the loss of morality in this country account for the vast majority of violent crime... So, if you want to blame something, blame the lack of border control, drug laws that create a nitch for a lucrative black market, and the lack of honor of your fellow man, and mayhap yourself as well...
takeing away the individual right to self protection in its many capacities is never the solution. Though it may be touted as such by power hungry statists who so blindly overlook their own apalling failings.
In my opinion tax paying people, we the people, are handicapped enough by gun laws, no doubt in more then a few cases fatally so.
Wow. BIG +1
quote:I am sorry...you simply do not get to accuse ME...'SOCIETY'....of the mis-deeds of the few.
NOR do you get to curtail MY Rights...simply because you live in fear of your fellow man, and worry about your ability to handle an incidence of violence in your proximity.
Another +1
There are over 300,000,000 people in this country, there are on average 1,500 murders by gun each year...
You are off by about a factor of ten for the number of homicides per year. There are roughly 16,000 homicides per year and about 70% of those were committed with firearms (and about 75% of those firearms are handguns). Seventy percent of sixteen thousand is roughly 11,000.
quote:Originally posted by quickmajik
There are over 300,000,000 people in this country, there are on average 1,500 murders by gun each year...
You are off by about a factor of ten for the number of homicides per year. There are roughly 16,000 homicides per year and about 70% of those were committed with firearms (and about 75% of those firearms are handguns). Seventy percent of sixteen thousand is roughly 11,000.
How many of those were gang members shooting other gang members over territorial disputes etc.?
How many of those were gang members shooting other gang members over territorial disputes etc.?
Exactly what are you trying to say or suggest? I'll not put words in your mouth so I will ask you to explain what you meant.
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
How many of those were gang members shooting other gang members over territorial disputes etc.?
Exactly what are you trying to say or suggest? I'll not put words in your mouth so I will ask you to explain what you meant.
I agree with your figures. At least according to the FBI, for the year 2008.
I am simply saying, out of those figures, how many of those firearms were used in an ILLEGAL manner to begin with. Drug dealers, gang members killing each other, etc. Used by those who would NOT adhere to ANY laws.
Is that sufficient?
quote:Originally posted by Redoubtable
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
How many of those were gang members shooting other gang members over territorial disputes etc.?
Exactly what are you trying to say or suggest? I'll not put words in your mouth so I will ask you to explain what you meant.
I agree with your figures. At least according to the FBI, for the year 2008.
I am simply saying, out of those figures, how many of those firearms were used in an ILLEGAL manner to begin with. Drug dealers, gang members killing each other, etc. Used by those who would NOT adhere to ANY laws.
Is that sufficient?
Let us go one step further and ask if this were the 'ideal' world with absolutely no restrictions on the RTKABA's whould the bangers be using the semi-autos (properly illegally obtained, as gun laws do not stop them), or there full autos (legally obtained)?? And how many MORE of them and others (collateral damage) would be shot???
Point being some limits need to be set.
The limits WOULD be set.
They would be set by the ELIMINATION of the scum that drive thru neighborhoods shooting the place up.
But...noooo...YOU, Jim, want to restrict DECENT citizens...simply becuase you do not have the will to stop CRIMINALS.
EASIER to control decent CITIZENS...ehhh...Jim ?
quote:Point being some limits need to be set
The limits WOULD be set.
They would be set by the ELIMINATION of the scum that drive thru neighborhoods shooting the place up.
But...noooo...YOU, Jim, want to restrict DECENT citizens...simply becuase you do not have the will to stop CRIMINALS.
EASIER to control decent CITIZENS...ehhh...Jim ?
And HB, HOW would they (scum) be eliminated, especially if they have Mini-guns, RPG'S, Ma Deuces, or even artillery??? Who will eliminate them, you???
Try and look at the 'real' side once in a while (even if it hurts[;)]) like the rest of us!!!
quote:if they have Mini-guns, RPG'S, Ma Deuces, or even artillery
So would everyone else Jim. Gangbangers are cowards. If they knew that someone else was just as heavily armed as they are do you actually think they will continue their violence? Common sense says no. I would be interested to see in those statistics how many "victims" were also armed. I'll bet the number is low. Gangbangers are cowards that prey on the weak, and defenseless. They are defenseless because the "law" makes them that way. An unConstitutional law at that.
Sorry to butt in here HB.
quote:if they have Mini-guns, RPG'S, Ma Deuces, or even artillery
So would everyone else Jim. Gangbangers are cowards. If they knew that someone else was just as heavily armed as they are do you actually think they will continue their violence? Common sense says no. I would be interested to see in those statistics how many "victims" were also armed. I'll bet the number is low. Gangbangers are cowards that prey on the weak, and defenseless. They are defenseless because the "law" makes them that way. An unConstitutional law at that.
No 'everyone' would not be armed that well, no more than they are armed as well as the bangers are now. And few' if any would have the money or inclination, to arm themselves that well in the real world. I guess to many people here just do not understand the 'nature of man'.[V]
Just as the settlers eliminated the wolves and the bears...if the bangers weren't protected by people like you...LEOs..they would cease to breath ...IN SHORT ORDER !!
Yeah, Jim...I would eliminate the gang bangers.
Just as the settlers eliminated the wolves and the bears...if the bangers weren't protected by people like you...LEOs..they would cease to breath ...IN SHORT ORDER !!
Well once again, HB, I wish you well in that endeavor. As I said, I too would like the world be this 'ideal' place you want it to be, but I am a realist, not an idealist!!!
Good luck and Gods' speed!!!
I noticed shortly after a certain someone was elected to a certain political position that even the local news(s) was flooded with "gun crimes" Every anything dealing with a firearm was on the news. They never(that I recall) ran a "police charge local man with illegal posession of a firearm" story before. Jacked up huh.
Can you say 12B4S[^], or I guess the MOS is 18C now![;)]
This is the stuff the progressives do, they will stop at nothing to get their way! We are fighting an up hill battle, but we are FIGHTING!!!!
Kinda like "Big Knives" in Great Britain.
Wouldn't matter if there was never such a thing as a gun. Whatever the choice would be for self-protection and self-preservation, THAT would become the new target.
Kinda like "Big Knives" in Great Britain.
Those who are armed have the power!!! Simple as that. The progressives can't have 'control' if we are armed, so they MUST disarm us. History seems to repeat dose it not????
Any ideas on how to stop this or lessen the frequency.?
Yeah: more guns = less crime.