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quote:Originally posted by golferboy426
quote:
The primary reason they come in from elsewhere is that they are, at least in DC, Chicago, and for the part in New York. The traceability program is in place also throught Illinois, and yet a large number the weapons use in Chicago come in from the suburbs where traceability exists
You statement is a little unclear I think you may need to re-read it and edit. If they truly come in from the suburbs where traceability exist it should be very easy to prosecute the first illegal transaction. Why aren't they?
My apologies, I'm typing on my phone, and have cleaned up, I think, my post.
I haven't specifically followed the prosecutions of sellers in Greater Chicago. Daley made hay out of a number of them a few years back, but I am unaware of the results.
If there were not successful prosecutions, my guess would be that there was no compelling evidence that the sellers knowingly broke the law. Every gang member and every gang members girl is clean up until their first conviction, are they not?
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
quote:Originally posted by golferboy426
should be pretty easy to prove a sale to an illegal buyer, no permit, lives in chicago etc
I feel I am at a disadvantage here not living in Chicago.
In Illinois is it illegal to sell a firearm to a resident of Chicago?
Is, say, a seller in Alton required to verify that a buyer that lives in Chicago is permitted by the city to possess a firearm?
Are non-FFL's permitted to sell a firearm?
One problem here is the term "Illegal". There are firearm laws in all 50 states (or 57 depending on which side you are on) and they all differ.
As far as I know the only thing you need in Illiois to buy a firearm from an individual is a valid FOID card unless it is at a gun show and then the seller must run a backkground check and hold a long gun for 24 hours and a handgun for 48 hours. The background check can be done by the seller making the call to the Illinois State Police or running it through an FFL.
Back ground checks are BS. I have been an FFL holder for 20+ years and the only refusals I, and the other dealers I know, have had were the results of improper records keeping by the police and courts. This resulted in those 'wronged' by this spending A LOT of time and money, not to mention the stress, to get their records corrected before the 'government' would allow them to exercise their RIGHT!!!![:(!]
quote:Originally posted by slumlord44
As far as I know the only thing you need in Illiois to buy a firearm from an individual is a valid FOID card unless it is at a gun show and then the seller must run a backkground check and hold a long gun for 24 hours and a handgun for 48 hours. The background check can be done by the seller making the call to the Illinois State Police or running it through an FFL.
WOW, Thanks.
This is just 1 of 50. FOID, CFP well if it works for them then who am I to judge.
My Texas colored glasses tints my view of this discussion. I would view FOID and CFP as infringing.
I don't think a citizen should be criminalized or a weapon considered illegal just because one lost their papers or the State failed to provide renewal in a timely manner.
Of course there would never be any bootlegging of firearms in Chicago, everyone knows that.
I guess I need to limit my discussion to BATF process which is common for all states.
I think I am beginning to follow Golferboy's logic. The only way we can enforce the thousands of gun laws currently on the books is to make more laws. I think you may have a future in politics Golfer! How many times must we compromise our freedoms to ineffective legislation before we admit the folly? Your willingness to subject your most fundamental freedom to the whim of transient government is naive at best. I challenge you to consider the violence problem absent the crutch gun restriction. When we have addressed all of the other social ills that are the real cause of violent crime then we might have this discussion again.
quote:Originally posted by golferboy426
should be pretty easy to prove a sale to an illegal buyer, no permit, lives in chicago etc
You don't get it. The FED's don't care. On two different occasions I made case (open and shut) where a gang banger from CA came to CO and bought 30+ hand guns with fake ID's and used stolen credit cards and the US Attorney refused to prosecute. The FED's (progressives) want this to continue so they can blame it on guns, not people. That way they can eventually get there agenda forwarded. They MUST disarm us to control us!!! They don't care about the criminals, only those of us who are informed about what is going on and care about what is going on in 'their' government!!![:(!]
Comments
quote:
The primary reason they come in from elsewhere is that they are, at least in DC, Chicago, and for the part in New York. The traceability program is in place also throught Illinois, and yet a large number the weapons use in Chicago come in from the suburbs where traceability exists
You statement is a little unclear I think you may need to re-read it and edit. If they truly come in from the suburbs where traceability exist it should be very easy to prosecute the first illegal transaction. Why aren't they?
My apologies, I'm typing on my phone, and have cleaned up, I think, my post.
I haven't specifically followed the prosecutions of sellers in Greater Chicago. Daley made hay out of a number of them a few years back, but I am unaware of the results.
If there were not successful prosecutions, my guess would be that there was no compelling evidence that the sellers knowingly broke the law. Every gang member and every gang members girl is clean up until their first conviction, are they not?
Brad Steele
should be pretty easy to prove a sale to an illegal buyer, no permit, lives in chicago etc
I feel I am at a disadvantage here not living in Chicago.
In Illinois is it illegal to sell a firearm to a resident of Chicago?
Is, say, a seller in Alton required to verify that a buyer that lives in Chicago is permitted by the city to possess a firearm?
Are non-FFL's permitted to sell a firearm?
One problem here is the term "Illegal". There are firearm laws in all 50 states (or 57 depending on which side you are on) and they all differ.
As far as I know the only thing you need in Illiois to buy a firearm from an individual is a valid FOID card unless it is at a gun show and then the seller must run a backkground check and hold a long gun for 24 hours and a handgun for 48 hours. The background check can be done by the seller making the call to the Illinois State Police or running it through an FFL.
WOW, Thanks.
This is just 1 of 50. FOID, CFP well if it works for them then who am I to judge.
My Texas colored glasses tints my view of this discussion. I would view FOID and CFP as infringing.
I don't think a citizen should be criminalized or a weapon considered illegal just because one lost their papers or the State failed to provide renewal in a timely manner.
Of course there would never be any bootlegging of firearms in Chicago, everyone knows that.
I guess I need to limit my discussion to BATF process which is common for all states.
should be pretty easy to prove a sale to an illegal buyer, no permit, lives in chicago etc
You don't get it. The FED's don't care. On two different occasions I made case (open and shut) where a gang banger from CA came to CO and bought 30+ hand guns with fake ID's and used stolen credit cards and the US Attorney refused to prosecute. The FED's (progressives) want this to continue so they can blame it on guns, not people. That way they can eventually get there agenda forwarded. They MUST disarm us to control us!!! They don't care about the criminals, only those of us who are informed about what is going on and care about what is going on in 'their' government!!![:(!]