In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

Exciting Bills in Michigan Legislature

cat66hatcat66hat Member Posts: 70 ✭✭
edited February 2013 in Gun Rights and Constitutional Law
Re: Michigan Senate Bill #63 of 2013 and Michigan House Bill #4099 of 2013. Full text available on-line.

Both bills are very similar and are called 'The Michigan Firearms Freedom Act' The Senate bill is a little further along.

Basically, the bills poke a big pin in the over-inflated US Commerce Clause. The USCC is the way the USG is able to get involved in all sorts of stuff that is not specifically given to them in the US Constitution.

Michigan legislators are preparing to say that guns, ammunition and gun accessories that are made in Michigan, sold in Michigan and kept in Michigan are not subject to Federal jurisdiction. No Federal Excise Tax, no federal rules. There are some restrictions, such as compliance with existing Michigan laws and the bills do not extend the umbrella to protect select-fire weapons.

This is the best news I have heard in the past few months. Maybe there is hope.

Terry
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • torosapotorosapo Member Posts: 4,946
    edited November -1
    It's amazing how a state that goes blue every 4 years can be as gun friendly as Mich. I grew up there and am hoping to move back in the next couple years.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cat66hatcat66hat Member Posts: 70 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Michigan would be glad to have you back, torosapo.

    I have contacted Leapers/UTG, based in Livonia, MI, to see if they have any interest in making AR-15s & AR10s. Their quality has been getting better all the time and their prices have always been reasonable.

    They seem like a no-brainer to me, but there may be other businesses that would be interested in making Michigan-specific firearms. I know it's not a huge market, so the scale would be smaller than selling to the entire US.

    I was purchasing DPMS M-4 clones for $690.00 retail prior to Obama's government takeover. That price probably included some federal taxes and surely included federal rules, including FFL transfer fees. In our current world of $1,800.00 M-4 clones (if you can find them), I think quite a few people in Michigan would put up $900.00 or so for a good quality Fed-hands-off M-4. I'd buy one just to stick it to the Feds.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • torosapotorosapo Member Posts: 4,946
    edited November -1
    I see where some of the state senators are trying to get Remington to move to Mich.
    http://www.michigansthumb.com/articles/2013/01/26/news/local_news/doc5102f28f263c2378959032.txt

    If not already a member you should check out MCRGO They are the ones who fight the legal battles best in Mi for gun rights.
    http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cat66hatcat66hat Member Posts: 70 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Torosapo,

    I was a member of MCRGO when they were working their butts off for the Michigan CPL law.

    As soon as they had initial success with the law, they took on the issue of legalizing dove hunting. Then they started tearing each other apart.

    They lost me at dove hunting. It's like they couldn't find something more important to spend their political capital on.

    They don't interest me much anymore.

    Terry
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are several States making the same move. I feel it won't work, commerce clause.

    I like the idea and know people MUCH more knowledgeable of the law are behind this.

    Would a business under ATF control make a weapon meant to avoid federal control mechanism?
    It would likely require a separate independent business, say RUGER MICHIGAN, this would very costly. Is there a market to support this?
    Somehow one would make it into another State. Could try something like a 25 year sentence for crossing state lines. But like all laws that is after the fact punishment.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cat66hatcat66hat Member Posts: 70 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Casper,

    I feel that any company that builds Michigan-only firearms would have to be fire-walled, possibly with an LLC. A current firearms mfgr has a big BATFE/USG stick over his head, and I would not expect them to risk it.

    My idea was for someone like Leapers to create an LLC, lease vacant industrial space (They could probably find some in the Livonia area) and set up a small-scale shop. Leapers knows retail, customer service, shipping and supply chain management. If the FEDS get to be too much of a PITA, simply create a new LLC and move down the road. ARs are not that difficult to build.

    Assuming the Michigan Firearms Freedom Act is passed, the mechanics of producing firearms on semi-modern tooling are really pretty simple. Barrels are the most difficult part.

    Terry
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cat66hatcat66hat Member Posts: 70 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Casper,

    You had a couple more issues I forgot to address-

    I think you would find the text of the Bills in question interesting. They deal with the Commerce Clause directly.

    I suspect that bringing a non-FFL Michigan firearm into another state would invite the full weight of the USG on the individual who did the smuggling and not the manufacturer. It would be like trying to hold HK responsible for an individual smuggling a select-fire G3 into Ohio. This is simply my personal opinion, of course.

    Terry
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tjh1948tjh1948 Member Posts: 434 ✭
    edited November -1
    There maybe one major problem with laws like the ones Michigan & other states are trying to pass. Congress has created a preemption of Firearms Laws giving it the authority regulate the manufacture, sale, & possession of firearms enen if they do not move in Interstate Commerce. I do not believe that either the NFA or the GCA have ever been ruled un-constitutional. Also, most, if not all the raw materials used in the manufacture of a Michigan Only firearm moved in Interstate Commerce making the argument mute.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cat66hatcat66hat Member Posts: 70 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for your input on this issue. The more we discuss it, the more likely for someone to give it a try.

    You may be right about the prior-restraint set up by the USG previously. I highly recommend that anyone interested in this topic check out the text of the bills (available on-line) in question.

    The Michigan bills cite as their authority for the Firearms Freedom Act the state of firearms laws when Michigan became a state and also the 2A in the Bill of Rights.

    I am not sure it will work, but I really hope so.

    Terry
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cat66hatcat66hat Member Posts: 70 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Info that I was not aware of:

    There already is an AR builder in Michigan...

    Detroit Gun Works, in cooperation with Kroll Industries kicked off their new line of potentially illegal ARs at the SHOT show.

    I hope somebody from the business is reading this thread.

    Terry
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Waco WaltzWaco Waltz Member Posts: 10,836 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why don't those states go further and declare all firearms owned in the state before a federal law passes are exempt?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cat66hatcat66hat Member Posts: 70 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    WW,

    I like the way you think. Don't react - ATTACK.

    Terry
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nards444nards444 Member Posts: 3,994 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I grew up in Michigan and unfortunately live in NY now. Michgain may be blue and I think its due to detroit and the fact eventhough most blue collar workers in michigan lean to the right in thought, tend to vote to the left because its no secret the right is no friend of the blue collar guys when it comes to unions to the blue collar worker.

    But with that said I think michigan has some of the most make sense laws on just about everything
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.