In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Guns in your car at work ???
n/a
Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
In Pa. can a company disallow you to have a firearm in your vehicle at work? I see Beretta has chosen Tennessee for a new plant and one of the criteria was Tennessee allowing the above as long as the workplace agrees.
Comments
If the same rules apply as a CCW, as a private individual not employed by the company, I can be asked to leave and threatened with trespassing if I return.
As an employee, it could be a matter for the HR department.
Florida was the most prominent. Hopefully this intrusion does not become the norm.
Brad Steele
Now, my take on the situation...If your state allows you to carry a concealed weapon, and leave it locked in your vehicle, then it is none of the companies business as to what's in your property at work. "Your property", is solely referring to your vehicle. I wouldn't advertise, or menace the fact, either.
Best
EDIT 1
quote:So long as you accept termination as a consequence of violating company policy, I guess you can do whatever you want to do.
Yes, that can be a temporary downfall, to my previous statement...just until my lawyers get done. If I am not violating state or local law, the company does not make law. The vehicle is MY...read MY property, and no one...that is right, no one is going to tell me how to proceed to and from work...or any place else.
Not for nothing, but it sounds like after reading other post of yours, that you are obsessed with power and authority. My best advise in your situation, is that if you are scared of your employees, two things to do...
1. Treat them like human beings, not as your property...because realistically, you do not own them.
2. In the words of our forefather's...an armed society, is a polite society.
Best
I believe this topic would be better suited for the constitutional law forum, or political forum. You might want to copy it there if you have not already.
Now, my take on the situation...If your state allows you to carry a concealed weapon, and leave it locked in your vehicle, then it is none of the companies business as to what's in your property at work. "Your property", is solely referring to your vehicle. I wouldn't advertise, or menace the fact, either.
Best
So long as you accept termination as a consequence of violating company policy, I guess you can do whatever you want to do.
I would respect the wishes of the property owner or find another job.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
I believe this topic would be better suited for the constitutional law forum, or political forum. You might want to copy it there if you have not already.
Now, my take on the situation...If your state allows you to carry a concealed weapon, and leave it locked in your vehicle, then it is none of the companies business as to what's in your property at work. "Your property", is solely referring to your vehicle. I wouldn't advertise, or menace the fact, either.
Best
So long as you accept termination as a consequence of violating company policy, I guess you can do whatever you want to do.
I would respect the wishes of the property owner or find another job.
In a perfect world, yes. But, realistically, we can't all just "find" another job in the current economic conditions, and yet, we also don't want to give up our right to defend ourselves and our family. A compromise position of "don't ask, don't tell" is the most pragmatic solution.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
I believe this topic would be better suited for the constitutional law forum, or political forum. You might want to copy it there if you have not already.
Now, my take on the situation...If your state allows you to carry a concealed weapon, and leave it locked in your vehicle, then it is none of the companies business as to what's in your property at work. "Your property", is solely referring to your vehicle. I wouldn't advertise, or menace the fact, either.
Best
So long as you accept termination as a consequence of violating company policy, I guess you can do whatever you want to do.
I would respect the wishes of the property owner or find another job.
In a perfect world, yes. But, realistically, we can't all just "find" another job in the current economic conditions, and yet, we also don't want to give up our right to defend ourselves and our family. A compromise position of "don't ask, don't tell" is the most pragmatic solution.
Agreed. We have a policy of 'Don't ask, don't care.' but that is because I get to establish the rules. If one makes the decision to violate the rules of someone's personal property, regardless of whether he is the employer or not, one must be willing to face the consequences of one's choice.
Brad Steele
You may only have these locked items in transit to a specific range or gun designated area.
So no guns in your car at work!
I believe this topic would be better suited for the constitutional law forum, or political forum. You might want to copy it there if you have not already.
Now, my take on the situation...If your state allows you to carry a concealed weapon, and leave it locked in your vehicle, then it is none of the companies business as to what's in your property at work. "Your property", is solely referring to your vehicle. I wouldn't advertise, or menace the fact, either.
Best
EDIT 1
quote:So long as you accept termination as a consequence of violating company policy, I guess you can do whatever you want to do.
Yes, that can be a temporary downfall, to my previous statement...just until my lawyers get done. If I am not violating state or local law, the company does not make law. The vehicle is MY...read MY property, and no one...that is right, no one is going to tell me how to proceed to and from work...or any place else.
Not for nothing, but it sounds like after reading other post of yours, that you are obsessed with power and authority. My best advise in your situation, is that if you are scared of your employees, two things to do...
1. Treat them like human beings, not as your property...because realistically, you do not own them.
2. In the words of our forefather's...an armed society, is a polite society.
Best
So let me get this straight:
1. You seek employment at a specific business.
2. You know their policy about firearms on their property.
3. You accept that employment, planning to violate that policy.
4. When caught breaking a policy you agreed to follow by virtue of accepting the position, you go crying to mommy for protection.
Who would want to hire a person like that?
To your other point, regarding power and authority. I don't know what you are talking about and neither do you.
Our policy regarding firearms, established by me is 'I don't care'. I don't ask people if they are armed because I don't care. I don't ask people if they have arms in the cars because I don't care. I don't believe it to affect how they perform their job, therefore it doesn't affect me.
That doesn't change the fact that if I were to set a no firearms in the car policy, or a no alcohol in the car policy, or a no smoking indoors policy, I could do so. I choose not to for the very reason you point out. If you treat people like the equals they are, you get better production from them and we both are better off at the end of the day.
I am always bemused by the big tough guy who clings to the skirts of government for protection in his interactions with others. I tend to steer clear of those that have little comprehension of what individual liberty actually means.
Brad Steele
I don't know the answer to the question about STORING (not carrying) guns in your car in PA, though the states gun association should be able to give you a good answer. But its not a trivial question, and its possible there isn't well-established legal precedent in PA on this issue.
In general you can't legally carry a gun in your car in PA *at all* without a license. See here:
quote:http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-firearms/concealed-carry
18 Pa.C.S. ? 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
In **GENERAL** whether or not its legal to keep a gun in your car depends on the state in question. In some states your car is considered an extension of your home, and you can legally keep a loaded gun there, unrestricted, even without a permit. In some states this is not true. In some cases, you can. . .but there are restrictions (eg gun has to be unloaded or stored under lock and key, you have to have a permit, etc).
In some states, there is specific legislation authorizing possession of guns in a car on private property. For example Tennessee has a "safe commute" law that specifically permits individuals to have guns in their vehicles on private property belonging to someone else (eg an employer). They may not legally be able to CARRY the gun on private property. . .that's up to the property owner in question.
But this is NOT true in most states.
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
I believe this topic would be better suited for the constitutional law forum, or political forum. You might want to copy it there if you have not already.
Now, my take on the situation...If your state allows you to carry a concealed weapon, and leave it locked in your vehicle, then it is none of the companies business as to what's in your property at work. "Your property", is solely referring to your vehicle. I wouldn't advertise, or menace the fact, either.
Best
EDIT 1
quote:So long as you accept termination as a consequence of violating company policy, I guess you can do whatever you want to do.
Yes, that can be a temporary downfall, to my previous statement...just until my lawyers get done. If I am not violating state or local law, the company does not make law. The vehicle is MY...read MY property, and no one...that is right, no one is going to tell me how to proceed to and from work...or any place else.
Not for nothing, but it sounds like after reading other post of yours, that you are obsessed with power and authority. My best advise in your situation, is that if you are scared of your employees, two things to do...
1. Treat them like human beings, not as your property...because realistically, you do not own them.
2. In the words of our forefather's...an armed society, is a polite society.
Best
So let me get this straight:
1. You seek employment at a specific business.
2. You know their policy about firearms on their property.
3. You accept that employment, planning to violate that policy.
4. When caught breaking a policy you agreed to follow by virtue of accepting the position, you go crying to mommy for protection.
Who would want to hire a person like that?
To your other point, regarding power and authority. I don't know what you are talking about and neither do you.
Our policy regarding firearms, established by me is 'I don't care'. I don't ask people if they are armed because I don't care. I don't ask people if they have arms in the cars because I don't care. I don't believe it to affect how they perform their job, therefore it doesn't affect me.
That doesn't change the fact that if I were to set a no firearms in the car policy, or a no alcohol in the car policy, or a no smoking indoors policy, I could do so. I choose not to for the very reason you point out. If you treat people like the equals they are, you get better production from them and we both are better off at the end of the day.
I am always bemused by the big tough guy who clings to the skirts of government for protection in his interactions with others. I tend to steer clear of those that have little comprehension of what individual liberty actually means.
Hey Pal,
Number 1,
I don't cry to mommy, I do what I have to do to protect my constitutional rights. Not sure what you do not understand, that my car is my property, if, or if not it is parked on Pennsylvania Ave., or any place else.
Number 2,
I applaud you for treating your employees with gratitude, and having firearms friendly policies.
Number 3,
For someone that has this in their signature
quote:'The Constitution that was actually enacted and formally amended creates islands of government powers in a sea of liberty. The judicially redacted constitution creates islands of liberty rights in a sea of governmental powers.'
Randy E. Barnett
You should know what individual liberty is. I do not run to the government for protection. I simply use out constitution.
You said it, I did not, that you make the rules, and you have a Dont ASK/Tell type of policy.
So...put yourself in someone elses shoes..you have an emergency call into work, that something is down, and needs you to fix it at 1:20 AM. You get dressed, jump in the vehicle, and take off...only to a 1/2 mile down the road, get stopped by a bunch of hoodlams who have blocked the road, to reap havvoc on the next passer thru. You wish you had a defensive weapon with you, or are you leaving it home because the shop says you can't have one in your own property???...yeah, I thought so.
EDIT 1
quote:A basic flaw of many who engage in self-centered interpretations of the Constitution is that they fail to understand the difference between a Government imposing its will and an individual imposing his will on his own property.
That word right there is a misnomer...it basically means for those who use it, they cant either read black and white, or cannot comprehend it, and need to put their own spin on it.
So what part of "Shall not be infringed" do you need help with? My constitutional rights do not end, just because I accept employment. If you think they should, then perhaps you need to belong to a country with a different constitution.
BEST
Hey Pal,
Number 1,
I don't cry to mommy, I do what I have to do to protect my constitutional rights. Not sure what you do not understand, that my car is my property, if, or if not it is parked on Pennsylvania Ave., or any place else.
Number 2,
I applaud you for treating your employees with gratitude, and having firearms friendly policies.
Number 3,
For someone that has this in their signature
quote:'The Constitution that was actually enacted and formally amended creates islands of government powers in a sea of liberty. The judicially redacted constitution creates islands of liberty rights in a sea of governmental powers.'
Randy E. Barnett
You should know what individual liberty is. I do not run to the government for protection. I simply use out constitution.
You said it, I did not, that you make the rules, and you have a Dont ASK/Tell type of policy.
So...put yourself in someone elses shoes..you have an emergency call into work, that something is down, and needs you to fix it at 1:20 AM. You get dressed, jump in the vehicle, and take off...only to a 1/2 mile down the road, get stopped by a bunch of hoodlams who have blocked the road, to reap havvoc on the next passer thru. You wish you had a defensive weapon with you, or are you leaving it home because the shop says you can't have one in your own property???...yeah, I thought so.
Pal???
Cute.
Your Constitutional Right to do almost anything ends when you choose to go onto someone else's property.
You can be asked to leave if you protest your employer on his property. He will ask you to take it to the street, and it is well within his rights as a property owner to make that request.
The same holds true from a firearm in your car. Respect is a two-way street. An employer has the right to control what is on his property. If you want a firearm in your car, park it off the premises. A very simple solution to your problem which respects the rights and wishes of your employer.
And yes, you are running to mommy. You want mommy to step in and help you break a policy you agreed to accept. As stated previously, if you don't like the policy of a potential employer, be a respectable human being and don't lie and take the job under false pretenses. That in an of itself is worthy of termination.
A basic flaw of many who engage in self-centered interpretations of the Constitution is that they fail to understand the difference between a Government imposing its will and an individual imposing his will on his own property. The Constitution, and particularly the Bill of Rights are restrictions upon Governments. They are not restrictions upon individuals. The founders most likely believed that the citizenry was sufficiently civilized that they would respect the rights and property of others.
Brush up on your reading skills as well, please.
I stated that my policy was 'Don't ask, don't care'. It is a little different than 'Don't ask, don't tell', don't you think? Reading for comprehension would have saved you a bit of typing.
No need to be concerned, really. Your desire to have Government intercede in inter-personal interactions is typical of mainstream thinking today. I personally think it is a shame, and demeans the dignity and reduces the freedoms of us all. Which of course, it does.
All the best,
Don
Brad Steele
So what part of "Shall not be infringed" do you need help with? My constitutional rights do not end, just because I accept employment. If you think they should, then perhaps you need to belong to a country with a different constitution.
BEST
Those consitiutional rights, as have already been pionted out, are to keep the government in check. If a person thinks the second amendment allows them the right to be armed on private property, they are VERY wrong.
Sir, let me ask you this: If the second amendment protects you on private property, why are you leaving your firearm in your car? Keep it on your person.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Some state courts and federal courts have ruled that the employer does not have a right to prohibit an employee from keeping a legal firearm in their vehicle if there is no "protection" for that employee and the likelihood of working at times that could put that employee in a perilous situation.
That said, the company can negate that exception by simply having a "Rent-a-cop" in the parking area. The private property rule again then applies.
So as always, when asked what the law says: the answer is "It Depends".
COB
Then there's don't ask don't tell.
Best
I agree with TRS.
If it's locked in the trunk of your car and you are not broadcasting the fact that it is there, how would they know what's in your truck?
Out of sight and under lock and key....heck it wouldn't make any difference if you had a sherman tank locked in your trunk.
Glad I live in Texas. You can have a firearm in your vehicle as long as you are legally allowed to own one.
+1[:D]
for me it's in a lock box secured to the vehicle.
A rent a COP on a parking lot does little to help in a 30+ mile commute thru some questionable areas.
Is it the employers right to tell someone they must travel to work unarmed in their own vehicle even if they feel it might be necessary?
How is a firearm in an unoccupied vehicle a danger to anyone?
Scott
I hate using that term, but it applies.