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A Matter Of Prospective On Gun Rights

AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭
Went to a local gun store the other day, and they had my favorite pet peeve sign on the door, "All guns must be unloaded prior to entry."Well I saw the store owner inside and engaged him in conversation.I asked him about the sign on the door and he explained that it was his store and he could make any rules he wanted. I carefully explained that he only had a license to do business and that his store rules could not fly in the face of state and federal laws. He further explained that he had a few CCW people come into the store and through mishandling the sidearm made employees feel at risk. I told him that he would be better off reporting them to the issuing agency rather than attempting to penalize all that carry.I asked him if there were any accidental discharges and or employee injuries from a mishandled sidearm in a gun store, in Kalifornia. He said no.He then asked me why I was "pissed off" over this.I told him I was not, that I was covered under state law, and that his store rule was not.But I countered what bothered me was that someone who was supposed to be pro gun,was so easily, and without a second thought would, just like the gun control people, attempt to strip me and others of our rights granted under the law.Yes that bothered me.And I left the store.What do you think?
?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
Margaret Thatcher

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain

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    S&W ManS&W Man Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I know around here some gun shops have signs like that, but if you ask they say it is only for guns being brought in NOT to guns being carried concealed. They believe those guns will not be brought out.
    The second admendment GUARANTEES the other nine and the Constitution!
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    pikeal1pikeal1 Member Posts: 2,707
    edited November -1
    I agree with S&W. My local shop has the same sign, but I think it refers to guns be brought in for service or trade or sale. People who carried concealed don't need to worry about unloading theirs, after all, its concealed and the shop employees have no reason to see it.
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    AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Then why don't they say that. They aren't specific and clear on what they want. Taken at face value they are asking all to comply.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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    pikeal1pikeal1 Member Posts: 2,707
    edited November -1
    I guess its just to cover their *. I simply ignore it There are some people that just dont need to have guns, and I'm sure these signs are there for them.
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    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Personally I would ask the owner/manager the intent of the sign. If it is to keep out stuff for sale or trade ok, if it is to prevent legal carry of firearms then I would (and have) made it clear that I would no longer frequent the establishment and would let others know about the policy (respectfully of course). A store owner should have the right to not want guns in the establishment but that doesn't mean it should go unchallenged or with no sanctions.Unless we question and/or resist this type of creeping incrementalism we continue down the slippery slope to a place I don't want to be.Just a thought.
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    AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That is why I question that type of sign every time I see it. And it is every bit creeping in on my rights. My suggestion is that everyone should question this type of sign. Politely, of course, but make your thoughts known.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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    FitzFitz Member Posts: 258 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ya know, it could be as simple as them being nervous. I mean I grant that a gun store is probably the stupidest place to try and rob, but most theives are idiots anyway.

    Fitz
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    AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Then why don't they have these signs a Wal Mart, or 7-11 stores?
    A crook would have to be Major League stupid because in my area the clerks in gun stores are all armed. For a while there was one combonation liquor store / gun store. I don't ever remember that store being held up.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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    S&W ManS&W Man Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You have to look at it from their point of view as well. YES it is stupid to try and hold up a gun store, BUT it has been done. In fact in our state there have been two times where robbers went in with guns and shot everyone in the store, then ripped it off. It does happen. These were not concealed guns but long guns that should not have been taken into a gun store loaded, but, since when do criminals pay any attention to the law, right or wrong, or what is just simply common sense.

    The second admendment GUARANTEES the other nine and the Constitution!
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    magnumcreekranchmagnumcreekranch Member Posts: 35 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    They can't tell if I am packing or not. Mine is concealed. I usually just ignore the signs.

    NRA Life MemberHill Country ShooterBobbyLIVE TO SHOOT & SHOOT TO LIVE.
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    daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    I haven't seen any signs like that here in Texas- is this a Kalifornia thing?
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I live in Ohio, and as many of you know, this is a non CCW state. This sucks, considering we are surrounded by Carry States. With the passage of CCW in Michigan, where do you think all of the criminals of Detroit are going to go to conduct their business??? At this moment, talks are on the floor, and it looks as if our wimp of a Governor (I am sorry I voted for this piece of work) claims he will sign a CCW bill into law with LE approval. Brilliant, why would an organization of people exempt from our concealed carry restrictions and possessing Jedi-like mastery over firearms that we, the normal people, could never hope to achieve, give their OK to it??? I am curious to see how things would be in our state should it be passed into law.

    Registration laws SUCK!!!!!

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    -Gunphreak
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    AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't believe that all rank and file LEOs oppose arming citizens. I went to a robbery call, where the coin dealer was loading his car early in the morning, before going to the swap meet to conduct business. Three masked men attempted to rob him at gunpoint.
    Result: his little .32 accounted for one masked DOA, another masked robber mortally wounded 100 yards away, and the third caught 1/4 miles away in the getaway car with soiled underware but not a scratch, his mask was on the front seat, next to him.
    No I don't oppose CCW for citizens.

    If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there.

    Edited by - Alpine on 06/05/2002 09:15:42
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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    S&W ManS&W Man Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is one gun shop im my area I frequent and he has a a sign that "No loaded/uncased firearms" We are friends and I asked him once and his reason is that he wants the guns coming in for trade/repair/sale to be unloaded. I even agree that is a good idea cause I have seen some stupid things done in those circumstances. On the other hand he never says a word to anyone that is carrying and in fact he has asked me, and some others, where our guns were if we happened to leave them in the vehicle.

    You sometimes need to apply some simple logic to what you see. They are not really(I believe anyway) trying to obstruct your rights, they are more trying to protect themselves from idiots that probably shouldn't be carrying anyway. I actually saw a guy go into a shop with a gun he wanted to have worked on. He pulled it out to show the owner and pointed it right at him. Of course, like many I have seen in saftey classes, he had no idea that you didn't put your finger on the trigger till you were ready to shoot, so guess where his finger was. Needless to say, after the owner TOOK the gun away from him he first UNLOADED it. all six chambers in the cylinder were loaded!

    I look at it this way, If I have a carry gun I'll be DAMNED if I am going to unload it. Also I am not going to pull it or exposed it, if concealed, nor say anything about it. HOWEVER, if I am taking a gun into a shop to trade, sell, or have looked at I ALWAYS TAKE IT IN UNLOADED.
    I feel this is the intent of the signs. IF they are dumb enough to say anything about my carry gun, Then they WILL get a piece of my mind and I will never return. Hasn't happened yet. And in the summer my carry gun is NOT concealed, but right in my belt line.

    The second admendment GUARANTEES the other nine and the Constitution!

    Edited by - S&W Man on 06/05/2002 18:35:31
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    Rob GreeneRob Greene Member Posts: 102 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All the signs I've ever seen around here were a humourous attempt to remind people of basic firearm safety. Of course, they said "Please unload firearms and remove ski masks before entering store."

    **It is your right to posess a firearm. In case of questions, please refer to ammendment 2, United States Constitution.**
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Alpine, I assume you were talking to me. Are you from Ohio? And the way you talked, apparently you are an LEO of some sort, are you not? You know something? After all the trouble I have had with people, and the police telling me not to take matters into my own hands or leave it to the police, and even after attempting to arrest me for stabbing a guy with his own damned knife that he cut me with first, I believe there is some truth to what I said. If you don't fit those qualities, then I commend you, because you are one of the better, more dependable people. While doing my homework, though, my thoughts are that enough Officers, with the omission of Sheriffs (I know they support the idea of CCW) are opponents to CCW, or we would have it. I have also heard a number of the whiny bastards talk about being afraid to arrest people because they may pull their piece. Check the Hamilton County area out for starters.

    Two kinds of cops: Bad cops - "You have to leave it up to the law."
    Good cops - "I can't be around all the time. You better do something to protect yourself"

    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, call for a pizza and see which gets there first.

    (That does not imply I am contemptuous of Law Enforcement, but like I said, they can't be around all the time. Criminals tend to make absolute certain they are nowhere to be found beforehand.)

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    -Gunphreak
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    leadlead Member Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just my two cents worth, but I used to work in a shop that didn't have a sign like that. Right after deer season one year we had a kid come in, he was about 21 or 22, with his lever action Marlin. He had kept it in his truck's gun rack since the close of the season and decided to trade it for a bolt action rifle. He handed me the gun, the hammer was back on it. I checked, and sure enough, it still had two rounds in it, including one in the chamber. My boss put up a sign after that, not to infringe on anyone, just to make people think a little.
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Interesting how one dumb kid can screw things up for the rest of us, isn't it.

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    -Gunphreak
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    White347LXWhite347LX Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    They can't tell if I am packing or not. Mine is concealed. I usually just ignore the signs.

    That's what I was thinking. The name says it all with a *Concealed* carry permit, nobody should even know you have it on your person. Unless there is a need to display or use it to prevent a crime, then everyone in the area should be oblivious to the fact that you're carrying. If you are carrying, you should be familiar enough with the law to know what's legal and stay within those limits, anybody else's opinions on the law in the form of a private sign or by word of mouth really mean nothing.
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    carbinekingcarbineking Member Posts: 60 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    That gun shop owner's right supercede your's to a loaded CCW. You are on his property. Under many CCW laws, there is a stipulation that anyone can post such signs and you must comply. He has every right to regulate he status of your firearm. If you don't like his policy, go somewhere else, he just lost business (the ultimate injury to any businessman).
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'll second that one....

    Besides, a "No Guns Allowed" sign could mean the people shopping there could be carrying one, anyway, knowing full well that this establishment should be safe enough to rob. I would certainly hate to be in the same store as the guy with the shotgun under his coat. Let them send the invitation.... I will be happy to go elsewhere.

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    -Gunphreak
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    AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just voted. I went 70 miles out of my way to buy a soft gun case from a gun store that does not have the offensive sign. And I paid an additional $10.00 for the same case, further away, just cause I am not going to buy from someone that has this mindset.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's the way to do it. A little inconvenience on our part, a stab to the chest on theirs.

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    -Gunphreak
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    Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As the final nail in the coffin, you should send the store owner a letter (not a phone call) telling him what you did and why.
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's a good idea...

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    -Gunphreak
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    AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Letter is sent. Thanks for the idea.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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    Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good for you. Unfortunately for me, my state (NY) does not allow private citizens to carry concealed anywhere unless under exceptional circumstances. I'm trying to figure a clever way around that, but so far no success.
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The People's Republik of New York has a way of doing that. Here in Ohio, very very special circumstances are required for anyone to be issued a carry permit. As unconstitutional as it is, we are fighting that in the state so that we may be able to carry a concealed weapon in the state. So far, being rolled at knife point twice (one in which I succeeded in stabbing the assailant critically with his own knife (I still have the knife and the scar)) while carrying decent amounts of cash wasn't enough of a good reason.

    I hate liberals!!!!





    Death to Tyrants!!!

    -Gunphreak
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