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Help On Registration Leading to Confiscation?
NOTPARS
Member Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭✭✭
Help!!!
As I have mentioned before, I am a conservative, pro-Second Amendment, and NRA life member public high school teacher. That would seem to make me rare. I am also in the Social(ist) Studies Department which qualifies me for the endangered species list...
It is very frustrating trying to convince other teachers, many who are liberals if not most, that the Constitution guarantees the right to keep and bear arms and that this is a benefit for both individuals and society.
It is even more frustrating trying to convince the liberal and naive soccer mom female teachers that guns are not the root of all evil. Sometimes I feel like a one man army serving as a target for the others to tee off on.
Okay, here is the latest debate. In Jackson County, Missouri (which includes Kansas City and eastward) we have to request a permit to transfer from the Sheriff to buy a handgun. The waiting period is 7 days. On the 7th day we come in to pick up the permit and then they do a check. Then, we give the permit to the seller (who does the Brady check). They fill out the permit with our name, gun purchased, serial number, and other information, and send it back to the sheriff. I contend that this is a form of registration.
Another teacher said, "So what? What is wrong with registration?"
I replied; "Registration usually leads to confiscation."
The other teacher did not believe me and demanded examples. I mentioned California, Nazi Germany, Russia, and so forth (forgot to throw in Australia and England) but he wanted concrete examples of registration laws and examples of confiscation. I need dates, laws, countries, whatever anyone can supply. As the conceal and carry debate heats up again in Missouri, the liberals are out spreading lies about the right to keep and bear arms. Naturally the teacher's unions (I am not a member) are profoundly opposed to license to carry. They will be fanning out to kill these bills. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
"Hitler was a socialist..."
As I have mentioned before, I am a conservative, pro-Second Amendment, and NRA life member public high school teacher. That would seem to make me rare. I am also in the Social(ist) Studies Department which qualifies me for the endangered species list...
It is very frustrating trying to convince other teachers, many who are liberals if not most, that the Constitution guarantees the right to keep and bear arms and that this is a benefit for both individuals and society.
It is even more frustrating trying to convince the liberal and naive soccer mom female teachers that guns are not the root of all evil. Sometimes I feel like a one man army serving as a target for the others to tee off on.
Okay, here is the latest debate. In Jackson County, Missouri (which includes Kansas City and eastward) we have to request a permit to transfer from the Sheriff to buy a handgun. The waiting period is 7 days. On the 7th day we come in to pick up the permit and then they do a check. Then, we give the permit to the seller (who does the Brady check). They fill out the permit with our name, gun purchased, serial number, and other information, and send it back to the sheriff. I contend that this is a form of registration.
Another teacher said, "So what? What is wrong with registration?"
I replied; "Registration usually leads to confiscation."
The other teacher did not believe me and demanded examples. I mentioned California, Nazi Germany, Russia, and so forth (forgot to throw in Australia and England) but he wanted concrete examples of registration laws and examples of confiscation. I need dates, laws, countries, whatever anyone can supply. As the conceal and carry debate heats up again in Missouri, the liberals are out spreading lies about the right to keep and bear arms. Naturally the teacher's unions (I am not a member) are profoundly opposed to license to carry. They will be fanning out to kill these bills. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
"Hitler was a socialist..."
Comments
By the way, I believe the answers to all your questions could be found in that book by John Lott. Unfortunatly, I can not remember the title of it. Anyone out there remember that?
Forget the Jones's.....I keep up with the Simpsons!
Happiness is a warm gun
Thanks for the response. Your situation is more serious than mine by a long shot. I just get the cold shoulder (and as I may have said, my classroom was taken away and given to a young new female teacher and I was moved out into half of the Jr. ROTC trailer up by the tennis courts)...this by the people who are always going on about tolerance.
"Hitler was a socialist..."
Great to hear from you again. I have been "fishing" on the www.gunsnet.com site (AK-47) and got into a bit of a "discussion" with a poster from Ohio. I have been ending my posts with comments like, "Hitler was a socialist" and he disagreed. He said, and they always do, that he was not a socialist. He then stated Hitler and Stalin could not have been socialists because they were dictators. Socialism he said, does not involve a dictatorship but rule of the workers...I told him in essence, six of one, half a dozen of another. Either way, its still a dictatorship. This forum seems to be the only one with so many sensible people on it. In addition to that, they also engage in a lot of racist comments in some of their threads. The retiring president of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance is a black man. I think we ought to be trying to win people over to our cause not repelling them. Oh well, just my two cents.
Happiness is a warm gun
NRA Life MemberHill Country ShooterBobbyLIVE TO SHOOT & SHOOT TO LIVE.
CONSIDER THIS...
In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, mentally ill, homosexuals, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
That places total victims who lost their lives because of gun control at approximately 56 million in the last century.
Since we should learn from the mistakes of history, the next time someone talks in favor of gun control, find out which group of citizens they wish to have exterminated.
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, a program costing the government more than $500 million dollars. The results Australia-wide; Homicides are up 3.2%, Assaults are up 8 %, and Armed robberies are up 44%. In that country's state of Victoria, homicides with firearms are up 300%.
Over the previous 25 years, figures showed a steady decrease in armed robberies and Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain how no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns."
It's time to state it plainly; Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws only affect the law-abiding citizens. Take action before it's too late, write or call your delegation.
Since guns were confiscated in England there have been MORE deaths by guns. While honest people give their guns up, criminals don't and will always have guns.
Paul Harvey
May God bless you
Gun laws don't reduce crime
By John R. Lott Jr.
Should we treat the Second Amendment like the rest of the Bill of Rights and assume it protects Americans against an over-intrusive government, as the Bush administration now argues? While the question whether people have a right to protect their own lives and the lives of loved ones is important, for most the bottom line is simpler: Do gun laws reduce violent crime?
Too often calls for "reasonable" gun control or "sensible" gun-safety laws ignore that such legislation can actually result in increased crime. Guns are used defensively about 2 million times a year, according to national surveys. Physically weaker victims (women and the elderly) and those most likely to be victims of crime (particularly poor blacks) benefit the most from owning a gun. Unfortunately, rules that are primarily obeyed by law-abiding citizens and not would-be criminals make crime easier.
One would never know from reading the news that there exists not one single academic study showing that the federal Brady Act, assault-weapons bans, state waiting periods, background checks, one-gun-a-month rules or safe-storage laws reduce violent crime. Some research even finds that these rules increase crime.
Advocates of "reasonable" gun laws need only look at Europe to see what the future holds. Europe has everything American gun-control proponents favor, but the three worst public shootings in the past year all occurred in Europe. All took place in so-called gun-free "safe zones." With violent crime rising, European police complain that strict gun laws have not impeded criminals' access to guns.
Around the world, from Australia to England, countries that have recently strengthened gun-control laws with the promise of lowering crime have instead seen violent crime soar. In the four years after the U.K. banned handguns in 1996, gun crime rose by an astounding 40%. Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%.
Gun-control advocates conveniently ignore that the countries with the highest homicide rates have gun bans.
John R. Lott Jr. is a resident scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute and the author of More Guns, Less Crime.
Helping keep America free: One gun at a time.
Of course. The anti-gun / anti-freedom / anti-liberty groups ultimate goal is to completely end private ownership of all firearms.
They are patient. They know that they will never get everything that they want all at once, so they happily take whatever incremental gains against freedom that they can.
That is the big danger: as people become more comfortable with "sensible" anti-gun legislation, "sensible" takes on new meanings.
Ever notice how the anti's are completely against Firearms Safety Education? The award-winning Eddie Eagle program should be taught in every school in the country - but they try to block it at every turn.
Why?
Simple: if we can teach our children to be responsible, the danger to them and others goes down. If children continue to hurt and kill each other accidentally, it gives the anti-gunners the power to call for more "sensible" legislation.
Education is the answer to most problems. Look at alcohol, tobacco, and other drugs. The more we hide them from kids, the more kids want to try them. If we teach them from a very young age the dangers and how to be responsible we would not have the problems that we do now. Children are naturally curious. Generally, the more mysterious something is, the more they want to investigate. Take the mystery away, replace it with solid knowledge and you create a responsible member of society.
Now there is a word: Responsibility
responsibility
noun
1: the social force that binds you to your obligations and the courses of action demanded by that force: "we must instill a sense of duty in our children"; "every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty"- John D.Rockefeller Jr [syn: duty, obligation]
2: the proper sphere or extent of your activities; "it was his province to take care of himself" [syn: province]
3: ability or necessity to answer for or be responsible for one's conduct; "he holds a position of great responsibility"; "young children on a farm are often given responsibilities"
There is a lot of talk in our society of "rights" but we increasingly enforce fewer and fewer responsibilities. Instead of being responsible for one's actions, there is an excuse for it. A good read is Alan Dershowitz's "The Abuse Excuse".
I know he cheated on me because of his childhood abuse,
but I shot him because of mine.
Caption from a cartoon that appeared in the New Yorker in August 1999
"For every 'Right' there is at least one corresponding 'Responsibility'"
Helping keep America free: One gun at a time.
http://www.nra.org/display_content/show_content.cfm?mod_id=61&id=0
You are correct about preaching to the choir. However, I see my role in life as being an educator. If I can pass on useful information to the choir, they can go out and preach to the general public.
I don't limit myself to In-House Preaching, though. I talk to anyone and everyone who will listen to me for any length of time. My formerly-anti-gun sister-in-law is now an avid shooter. Her children have all been raised with the knowledge that firearms are not toys: they are dangerous tools just like a car or a chain saw.
The oldest has been shooting since he was in the Cub Scouts, the oldest girl is now interested. She is 10, and will be going with us for the first time this summer.
Their mother used to say, "There will never be a gun in my house." She now wants one of her own.
In my experience, most people who "just don't like" guns are afraid of them. They react to a firearm the same way they do to a chain saw. Through patient education, they learn - just like they did with automobiles - that if you practice safety and treat the tool with respect, there is nothing to be afraid of.
Getting people to understand that the 2nd Ammendment is the protector of the rest of the Constitution is a little more difficult.
Anyone interested in a little "common sense" freedom of speech control?
How about "common sense" restrictions on the Fifth Ammendment?
Scary, isn't it? Could never happen, right?
Or, maybe, having the Federal Government decide what constitutes a religion? (Sorry - they already do that. Unconstitional? Sure. Legal? You bet!)
I'll step down from my soap box for a while. I have to get some sleep tonight .
The Four Boxes of Freedom:
1. Soap
2. Ballot
3. Jury
4. Cartridge
Use in that order.
The prelude to that was while we were going over the Bill of Rights. While in the First Amendment, we talked about freedom of speech, press, religion and assembly, and then went into what our limitations were (Libel, slander, rioting, and coercion to national religion). When I called to the teacher's attention about topics like Censorship, I didn't know what I was talking about. Then come the Second Amendment. We all know what the Second Amendment was all about. But that teacher insisted I was wrong and that it did not guarantee anything to anyone except the National Guard. From that point, being well-versed in the knowledge of my rights, I let him have it. Every other Kommie Studies teacher followed suit, and I nearly failed while I aced every other class (something fishy about that, wouldn't you say?) Psychology taught me about Sozialism while I was a Senior, and it was versed as a good thing. I fought that one back, too.
They want our children.....
Death to Tyrants!!!
-Gunphreak
Live for Peace, prepare for War
Helping keep America free: One gun at a time.
How do they justify registration as a good thing? It isn't nearly as useful in forensics as the fedcoats would have us believe, since most weapons used to commit crimes are stolen, anyway. I sometimes wonder if the SS really died, or whether it went underground and finally is rearing its ugly head here in our country.
Death to Tyrants!!!
-Gunphreak
Edited by - gunphreak on 07/03/2002 01:15:39
rodney colson
If your not part of the solution, you're on your own.
Death to Tyrants!!!
-Gunphreak
comphrende El Bro?
Later dude
Steve in Free Colorado
(Living free and wild)
Death to Tyrants!!!
-Gunphreak