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Maybe to slow the erosion of CA gun rights.....ts

tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
edited September 2003 in Gun Rights and Constitutional Law
I live in Kansas and thankfully our state constitution gives me the right to own guns. But I was playing a game of "connect the dots" involving a way to slow the erosion of gun rights, a verse in the Bible and two sections of, for example, the California State Constitution. I frankly don't know if I am just a 60 year old guy trying to tell everyone what they already know or if just maybe I have stumbled onto a new and powerful way to fight for gun rights without having to rely on the U.S. Second Amendment of the Constitution. If I have then the pro-gun lawyers will hate me for bringing this up. If anyone is interested then e-mail me at "retrosdad@aol.com"

if they don't want us to have guns for self defense, what do they want us to have?
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    gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would say you and I have a lot to talk about.

    Death to Tyrants!!!

    Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

    -Gunphreak
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    how did all this turn out???
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Longhunter: Once again I find I am a naive old geezer (when will I learn) Yeah, the KS state constituition clearly and without any confusion gives the state citizens the right to own and carry guns and it doesn't even prohobit carrying concealed as does the MO constitution. However, I am only one local person and what I have enountered is that just how am I going to force the state, county and city governments to let me have my constituional rights? I don't have money to file court case. So no progress made as of 8-5-03

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Oh, Longhunter. Actually I was also onto the idea that since the Bible, (I know you will love this) says that Jesus ORDERS his follows to sell all they have and buy a sword (handgun of it's day) that we could claim our religion allowed and required us to own and carry handguns. Several different groups in America have sued the US Govt. on this religious basis and won special rights. Why not gun owners.?

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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    Mr.PissyPantsMr.PissyPants Member Posts: 3,575
    edited November -1
    Interesting tr fox, very interesting. Might even work. All we need is for someone with financial backing to take on a case like this. Maybe we could start a non-profit organization and take donations to fund this endeavour.

    fc3000ae.jpg"Dying ain't much of a living, boy."
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Hmmmmmm,I kinda like where this heads.....I was just wanderin all the older posts and kicked up some that caught the eye...I think you may be on to something here....
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Mr. ****ypants & Longhunter:I have called this idea to the attention of a few gun-rights and no interest was shown. Look up Luke 22:36 where Jesus is quoted about his followers HAD to get a sword. Several groups, Eskimos have sued to allow them to hunt endangered species, Criminals in prison have sued to be allowed to conduct their "religious" ceremonies in private in violation of the normal prison rules, American Indians have sued to be able to use illegal drug Peyote in religious ceromonies and to hunt game out of season (bet you love that one Longhunter) and I believe a religious group sued and won the right to withhold medical treatment from their children unless court ordered. So inview of all that, why can't we claim and win a religous right to have and carry a handgun? And Longhunter there is also a quote in the Bible which says something like "A man's home is well protected when the man is a strong man well ARMED. But I can't do much by myself. Any ideas?

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    I'm thinkin,we need someone with more biblical expertise,and a lot more interest,it sounds feasible.Lets stay on it and see what comes up....
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    Mr.PissyPantsMr.PissyPants Member Posts: 3,575
    edited November -1
    Anyone know an ordained minister/attorney? [;)]

    fc3000ae.jpg"Dying ain't much of a living, boy."
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Guys, you don't have to be a certified expert on the Bible to read words that clearly shows Jesus ordering his followers (us?) to arm themselves with the handgun of the day; a sword. I mean, if he had ordered his followers (us?) to carry around a 2 foot wooden cross everwhere they went, don't you think that believers would claim they had a need and a religious right to do so? And I believe the courts would agree they had such a right to carry such a cross almost everywhere they went. Maybe even everywhere they went. So this sword/handgun thing doesn't have to be complicated. We just need to find some way to force the attention of the courts on this issue (lawsuit probably) and hopefully the court would decide just as they have with the already mentioned Eskimos, Am. Indians, imprisoned felons, and witches, that yes our religious belief gives us the same rights as those groups and so our right overrides any govt. law. If I was wealthy you would see that lawsuit filed this year.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    As my experiance has been(in relation to religiuos freedoms)it seems that you must be part of an "organized faith" to be taken seriously...That may be the first thing to be jumped over/thru.
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Sayyyy....How does all this apply to Native Americans? I realize out in "our" world they must adhere to our laws but have to wonder what on their reservations?
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    Mr.PissyPantsMr.PissyPants Member Posts: 3,575
    edited November -1
    Hmmm... Interesting thought about native Americans Fred, I bet their laws are not as strict regarding firearms. I have an old buddy who used to live on the reservation. I will look him up and see what his experiences were.

    I come from an independent Baptist background so not a lot of weight there. But I know my pastor has a lot of guys he went through seminary with and still meets at their conferences, I will go talk to him about this idea. He is an avid firearm enthusiast himself.



    fc3000ae.jpg"Dying ain't much of a living, boy."
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    I would think we should look at all avenues eh? It seems the natives control themselves on their reservation,it would seem that would include firearms,I know they set all their own hunting seasons etc.They are there own nations You just have to wonder if on the sreservation they are excempt....I too will do some digging,I trap some reservation land so know a few there....Nice to have you over here Mr.P**** it was gettin lonesome...
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    longhunter and Mr. Pi**ypants: On some reservations there is high stakes gambling not allowed to other citizens in the state. So you have special treatment there. In regards to having to be part of an "organized and recoginzed religion" you are letting the Feds off way too easy. The Feds may be able to come down hard on us gun owners, but they have to be very, very careful when dealing with anyone who claims to belong to any religious organization. You can get ordained as a minister of your very own church quite easily, even through the mail. If you have more time and energy than I do and want to pursue this idea you might look into it, get your ordained minister certificate and then point to the part of the Bible where Jesus orders you to buy, own (and I presume carry) the handgun of his day, a sword. Or you could also try and interest some people who are local to you because it would be a lot easier to actually get something done since we can't do much other than talk here. I have tried locally without any worthwhile results but one of you might have better luck.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    hmmmmmmmmm
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    nitrouznitrouz Member Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Tr, all you need to do is write your State Attorney General for a legal opinion on the Constitution line you are questioning along with your interpretation, asking if you are correct in your view.

    He might write you back, the ATF has done this for my questions.

    The California Attorney General won't respond to my requests for legal opinions as I am correct and he doesn't want the word out that active duty military may possess 'assault weapons' in California and are exempt from registering them.

    jesus2000x.jpg?mtbrand=NS_US

    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
    - Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Nitrouz: thanks for the good advice. I have contacted the state attorney general and as with you contacting the Calif. attorney general they won't give me advice or opinion on the constitution. I guess the only way theyexpect me to find out is to hire some high priced lawyer or to get arrested and fight to the finish or to launch a expensive court suit. Both of us might have much better luck if when we make our contact with the attorney general we have the names of several dozen other citizens/voters on our lettter. In that case they surely would be afraid to not respond. Of course, how do we go about gettingd those extra signatures?

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Anyone get anywhere on any of this .....just thought I'd kick it back up....L.H.
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    tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    longhunter: to me it seems like a great vehicle in which to use to get our gun rights, but it seems no one here or in KS has the time, money or interest in trying to use it.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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    longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Lack of interest seems to be a common disease amoungst gun owners doesn't it? It wil get them in the end...someone has got to care and believe.......who...and when......sigh.........
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