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HAPPY BUT SAD IN MISSOURI

notdownoroutnotdownorout Member Posts: 274 ✭✭✭
edited October 2003 in Gun Rights and Constitutional Law
I POSTED AN ISSUE WITH THE NEW MISSOURI "RIGHT TO CARRY" LAW IN THE EXPERTS FORUM AND I GOT SOME GOOD RESPONSES. SO, I THOUGHT I WOULD PICK THE MINDS OF ALL OF YOU ON THIS FORUM.

Posted - 09/16/2003 : 02:25:36

THANKS TO SOME INTELLIGENT LAWMAKERS WE NOW HAVE A "RIGHT TO CARRY" LAW IN MISSOURI. I JUST GOT THROUGH READING THE ENTIRE STATUTE AND I HAVE SOME REAL ISSUES. I AM DISABLED, DUE TO A STROKE 3 YEARS AGO, AND DO NOT HAVE THE USE OF MY RIGHT HAND OR LEG. I AM AN AVID GUN COLLECTOR AND A STRONG SUPPORTER OF THE 2ND AMENDMENT. BUT THIS NEW "LAW" SEEMS TO HAVE FORGOTTEN ABOUT THOSE OF US WHO HAVE DISABILITIES. THE NEW "LAW" REQUIRES FIREARM SAFETY TRAINING. DURING THE TRAINING YOU ARE REQUIRED TO DEMONSTRATE THE ABILITY TO SAFELY LOAD AND UNLOAD A REVOLVER AND A SEMI-AUTO HANDGUN AND TO QUALIFY FROM A STANDING POSITION. WELL, I GUESS I AM S.O.L. BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY THAT I CAN RACK A SEMI-AUTO HANDGUN FOR LOADING AND UNLOADING, NOR, CAN I SHOOT FROM A STANDING POSITION. I'LL GUARANTEE THAT I CAN SHOOT AS WELL AS A STANDING PERSON FROM MY WHEELCHAIR AND I CAN LOAD AND UNLOAD MY REVOLVERS SAFELY. I BUY MOSTLY REVOLVERS FOR THAT REASON AND THE SEMI-AUTO GUNS ARE NOT SHOT UNLESS I HAVE SOMEONE THERE TO RACK THE GUNS FOR ME. IS THIS A VALID QUESTION FOR THE A.D.A.. I AM SURE PONDERING THE ISSUE. ANY THOUGHTS?



NO, I'M NOT EXPRESSING ANGER! I TYPE WITH CAPS BECAUSE I ONLY HAVE THE USE OF ONE HAND!
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Comments

  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I, too, have read the language, and that is completely ridiculous. Apparently, the law makers don't like to realize that disabled people are targets for predators, as are the elderly, small-statured women, and outnumbered men.

    I live in the Republokrat state of Ohio, and we have our idiot law makers in the Senate and in the Emperor's office that are unwilling to remove the denial status of our right to bear arms as we choose. They have proposed so many restrictions that the law here would be useless, a symbolic measure, but not even remotely effective. At least Missouri's proposal was something I could live with (that's not to say I wouldn't be back at a later point to try to fix it).

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
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  • notdownoroutnotdownorout Member Posts: 274 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT "GUNPHREAK." I HOPE YOUR RESPONSE SOLICITS OTHERS TO RESPOND. I WAS TOTALLY PEEVED AT THE STATUTE WHEN I READ IT. I HAVE CONTACTED THE OFFICE OF MY STATE SENATOR AND ONE OF HIS ASSISTANTS IS DOING SOME RESEARCH AND HAS PROMISED TO RESPOND. MY SENATOR WAS A SUPPORTER OF THE VETO OVERRIDE. IN FACT, THE "ANTI-GUN" FOLKS PICKETED HIS HOME ON THURSDAY OF THIS WEEK. THERE WERE A NUMBER OF OUR "PRO-GUN" PEOPLE THERE ALSO. ANYWAY, I TOLD THE ASSISTANT RESEARCHING THIS ALL THE LAWMAKERS WOULD OF HAD TO DO IS WORD THE STATUTE LIKE THIS:

    "APPLICANTS MUST DEMONSTRATE THE ABILITY TO SAFELY LOAD AND UNLOAD A REVOLVER OR A SEMI-AUTO HANDGUN, OR MAY CHOOSE TO QUALIFY WITH BOTH.
    APPLICANTS WILL BE CERTIFIED AND LICENSED ACCORDINGLY."

    HOW SIMPLE IS THAT. THEY ALSO WANT THE APPLICANT TO DEMONSTRATE HIS/HER ABILITY TO SAFELY CLEAN A REVOLVER AND SEMI-AUTO HANDGUN. WELL, THERE AGAIN I AM S.O.L. AS THERE IS NO WAY I CAN BREAK DOWN A SEMI-AUTO FOR THOROUGH CLEANING USING ONE HAND.

    AS YOU HAVE PROBABLY READ, IT REQUIRES "SHOOTING FROM A STANDING POSITION OR ITS EQUIVALENT." THEY MAY HAVE COVERED THE WHEELCHAIR ISSUE WITH THE WORD EQUIVALENT. THE ASSISTANT IS CLARIFYING THIS ALSO.

    BOTTOM LINE: WHERE IN THE HELL IS THE CONSIDERATION FOR THE HANDICAPPED IN THIS NEW LAW? NOT ONE PLACE IN THE BILL DOES IT MENTION THE WORD HANDICAPPED. I THINK THE A.D.A. WILL BE MY NEXT CONTACT IF I AM NOT GIVEN FAVORABLE RESPONSE FROM THE ASSISTANT TO THE SENATOR.

    NO, I'M NOT EXPRESSING ANGER! I TYPE WITH CAPS BECAUSE I ONLY HAVE THE USE OF ONE HAND!
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  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey, as far as I'm concerned, this is the nasty D-word. That word is "discrimination". This in itself may grant a whole load of "exemptions" based for consideration.

    What the hell does "knowledge of cleaning a firearm" have to do with concealed carry, anyway? This seems like a way to keep the less-than-mechanically-inclined sorts from protecting themselves (I don't want to sound sexist, but women are usually (not always) not as mechanically inclined, but could represent a target due to their difference in stature, and if they are hotties, on top of that, or dressed like a million dollar bill...) That was counterproductive, and I think women should be pissed off about that, and maybe do the exact same thing you're thinking about doing.

    And I would hope that the applicant can load and unload their own gun, for their own safety.

    Death to Tyrants!!! Lev 26:14-39

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
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  • notdownoroutnotdownorout Member Posts: 274 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    gunphreak - again thanks for your response. ya i agree. if this isn't discrimination then i don't know what the word means.

    the lawmakers either overlooked the whole "handicapped" issue. or, they avoided it completely to keep from having to define "handicapped"
    in the statute.

    i have not had further contact with my senator's office. but they will get a call from me tomorrow.



    NO, I'M NOT EXPRESSING ANGER! I TYPE WITH CAPS BECAUSE I ONLY HAVE THE USE OF ONE HAND!
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  • NOTPARSNOTPARS Member Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    For Notdownorout: I might consider starting with the local Sheriff since they can set some of the testing parameters. See if you can take the course and also check with the folks offereing the course. If that fails, we need to talk with our elected representatives to get some modifications in the law. Since they are not enthusiastic about modifying laws we could consider:

    Discrimination complaint under the Americans with Disabilities Act

    Discrimination complaint under the 14th Amendment and its focus on due process and equal protection.

    Also, has anyone noticed what it will cost to obtain a license? So far the license is $100 and anywhere from $135 to $200 more for the course in the Kansas City area! If you can't afford this (I'll have to save up) you just have to pray...
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  • scksck Member Posts: 145 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The ADA should over ride any state portion of a law that requires an action which you cannot perform. You might mention that to the fellow you said was "looking into" all this. However, there are other solutions too!!! If you can get past the requirement to stand by an interpretation of the word "equivalent," then we can get you past the semi-auto requirement by getting you to shoot a Beretta .380 with the tip up barrel. It can be loaded and shot with one hand because you don't have to draw back the slide. As far as the cleaning requirement is concerned, a couple of shots with a product like Gun Scrubber, a brush down the barrel once or twice and a shot with a product like Sheath and you've fulfilled that one too. No problem! A little inconvenient having to buy a new semi-auto, but it will get you where you need to be. Best of luck. Please keep us posted.
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  • wolffman007wolffman007 Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    to notdownorout
    perservere in your endevour, I agree with you completely.
    i would seriously look into the ADA aspect of it, you may have something there to "arm" yourself with in your quest.
    personally I dont see how cleaning a gun has a dam thing to do w/ a concealed permit, but I understand the "effort" about loading & unloading a firearm, but that should be a requirement for purchasing a gun, not a permit to conceal one, yes i know all about the "permit" required to purchase a gun debate. That is coming from a purely safety standpoint, as to many people die from not knowing how to handle a firearm properly and no im no advocate for permits to buy a firearm.
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  • kriskris Member Posts: 973 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    the law you talk about will not require you to do things that are impossible for you to do...you are protected under the federal disability act..to make you try and keep up with a non disabled person is a violation of the act....you will most likley only be required to shoot and reload from where your normal comfort level is at..as far as a shooting position...im sure a well quailfied instructor will have no problem working with you to receive the training you seek..you are also protected under federal law to carry a automatic knife(switchblade) if you choose to do so

    it is good that we meet in the struggle of life or death.. .....it shall be life!
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  • azgunnut2@yahoo.comazgunnut2@yahoo.com Member Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, at least you guys have a 'carry law' , unlike your unlucky neighbors to the east ( land od lincoln?), good luck on this and stay after them , you have the big step done ....I uesed to teach the 'carry class' , dont see any real problems with your situation ???
    anyhow , another reason Im glad we now live in Tn (Az was real nice!).......Good Luck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Join / Support the NRA
    Guns are my friends !!!

    Gunsmith / LEO
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  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah.. It's discrimination. I'd apply for a permit, and show the cop in charge of your "testing" that you can safely load/unload and shoot the gun one handed. I would assume that he might at least recommend the high ups that you pass...

    Anyway, it's a good idea that you contact as many people as you can in order to fix this problem. There are more people out there with disabilities than the politicans care to think about, and their personal defense is just as important as everybody else's.
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  • spectre7spectre7 Member Posts: 965 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:APPLICANTS MUST DEMONSTRATE THE ABILITY TO SAFELY LOAD AND UNLOAD A REVOLVER OR A SEMI-AUTO HANDGUN, OR MAY CHOOSE TO QUALIFY WITH BOTH.
    APPLICANTS WILL BE CERTIFIED AND LICENSED ACCORDINGLY

    The key word there is probably going to be "safely". In my classes here, especially the internet based ones, the administration decides on a correct manner in which the assigned task must be completed.

    If you complete the set task, but do so in a manner different from theirs, or even in a way where your steps are in a different order than theirs, then your response is incorrect.

    Simple example: How do you re-set to double spacing in Microsoft Word

    Their answer: Go to edit, click on the "Select all" icon, go to page setup...etc etc....

    Incorrect answer: Select All, hold Ctrl, press "2"

    It's probably going to be all about what they consider a "safe process", meaning that if you don't take down your firearm or clean it like they say so for their test, then you fail.

    Typos and profanity, oh my! http://www.funky-town.org
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  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 14,081 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds like some jack-* judge has put a kink in the process this week. Some are putting classes on hold until the lawyers haslle it out.

    Mobuck
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