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I get soooo tired of

longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
The belief that we as a bunch of gun owners could not defend ourselves against our government troops.I would pray and do pray that it would NEVER come to that ,However the founders wanted to be sure that if it did,we the people could resist in that way.The LEO is JUST doing his job if he came to take your guns away?No I disagree this man or woman wether a leo,or fed or military person ,whatever that came to execute an order that was contrary to our Nations constitution is derilect in his/her duty.I agree whith some that a sucide on the front steps is not the best senario...but some will stand....and go down fighting and fuel the fire in those patriots that are waiting in the wings.The outrage of another Ruby Ridge or whatever I would hope would awaken the slumbering giant....But this needs to be fought at the poles at this point,State by State,County by County across the Nation.Is it too late to return to the Constitution???<I pray not as the alternatives are .....well we all know what they are.Most of us have families to consider first,but they must have had that problem then also.....anyhow...reactions anyone? By Longhunter(who's just tryin to get a grip)

Comments

  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    longhunter: as usual you are on the right track and if we ever find outselves in the fight we all worry about I will be happy to be stand next to you. Good point about the few who will fight at their front door when they come for the guns as giving those of us who prefer to fight from the hills incouragement. But when and if that happens (I hope it doesn't and it doesn't have to) we better have put something "aside" with which to fight.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • pickenuppickenup Member, Moderator Posts: 22,392 ******
    edited November -1
    Could we fight government troops, sent by an un-constitutional law? If we are somewhat organized, of course. Would we win? Unknown. But I am sure we could, and would, give them one hell of a fight, if it came down to that. My hopes and prayers are the same as yours. I never want to see this happen. Many would die, on both sides.

    Did you see the movie "The Patriot" (Mel Gibson)?
    I use this as a semi-believable example of what might have happened in times of war. A man who did not want to fight, was finally forced into it. As many were, I am sure. While waging the war, some lost everything. Their home, land, wealth, loved ones, and even their life. Should those of us living today, give any less....if/when we were to be forced into this scenario? Depends on what you REALLY believe, doesn't it.


    The gene pool needs chlorine.
  • 2gun2gun Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    folks i have good news about fighting from the hills against an unacceptable goverment imposing laws the people dont agree with. look to iraq theyre doing exactly what youre talking about against us troops and law enforcement they dont agree with.

    unfortunately though for us their goverment allowed them to own military weapons and they did.they got explosives and hardware stashed everywhere while the sanctions were in play.and a largely restive population that believes they are occupied. we dont have that,any of it, we have a population that disagrees with us and has almost never known civil breakdown. the few times it happened the athuarities restored order and order is good for the majority of people especially urban folks who would prefer a suit and an office to survivalism.

    wake up and smell the coffee, they will never come for your guns, you just wont be able to pass them on and teaching your kids will become harder and harder as you go against the grain. its a horrible statement but folks like the trains to run on time and crave order.

    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    I do not believe 2gun that they will ever INTENTIONALY do something dumb.BUT,this is the gov't in all its stupid arogance we are talking about.In my personal opinion,it is that arogance that will prove to be there undoing.Perhaps I am wrong,time and history will tell....I respect your views here bro.,I do,as I do all who are concerned with the cause.What are we to do ,give up?NEVER!! I can not,I will not,The cause is just....no matter what they think...eduvation is key I believe.........I have to believe that it isn't to late...L.H.
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Never underestimate the motives and reaches tyrants will go to preserve their own useless lives against law-abiders. They are a cancer among the country, and they will stop at nothing to achieve full control before the populous fights the germ and saves the country.

    They have infected us with an entire Pandora's Box full of plagues flaying this country from the inside out, for their own gain at our expense. The system will fail, and when it does, they want us to be defenseless against it, PERIOD!!

    Death to Tyrants!!!
    Lev 26:14-39

    Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • 2gun2gun Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i do not underestimate what evil goverments are capable of. i own guns, i practice my shooting and i am ready but i know this is one of the few countries,maybe the only one where there is a peacable transfer of power every 4 or 8 years. theres something to thatthat means a lot. we know that the fact that we own guns allows that peacable transfer to happen but a large majority of this country has forgotten the lessons of history and believes that privately owned weapons threaten freedom and security.

    i also like to think logically about situations and what to do about them. the goverment can educate the children about what rights they feel are important(they have the schools). as per the courts they can impose restrictions on purchases and possesion. civil forfeiture is the law of the land now. they wont take them yjey will allow them to become relics of the past. we are the only people who stand in their way and if we do not get politically active that is what we may look forward to.

    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 2gun
    i do not underestimate what evil goverments are capable of. i own guns, i practice my shooting and i am ready but i know this is one of the few countries,maybe the only one where there is a peacable transfer of power every 4 or 8 years. theres something to thatthat means a lot. we know that the fact that we own guns allows that peacable transfer to happen but a large majority of this country has forgotten the lessons of history and believes that privately owned weapons threaten freedom and security.

    i also like to think logically about situations and what to do about them. the goverment can educate the children about what rights they feel are important(they have the schools). as per the courts they can impose restrictions on purchases and possesion. civil forfeiture is the law of the land now. they wont take them yjey will allow them to become relics of the past. we are the only people who stand in their way and if we do not get politically active that is what we may look forward to.

    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban


    Well stated....but I think we may be underestimating some of their ,um...impatience.They ,like most of the rest of the country have become concerned more about themselves in the here and now I think ,than in the years to come.At least some of them have....and one will make a mistake one of these days,others will follow and the SWHTF.Unless we get changes implemented first......The Schools are a major issue in my humble opinion,when I ask students what they know about the Viet Nam war...they respond that they know their was one.They've NO idea how or why we got involved,or anything else for that matter.The changes in what they are being taught are HUGE problems for us.Hunting is barbaric.....etc.etc.,also quiz some students on the constitution,it is so sad what they do not know....HOW do we change this?I cannot afford Private school.....But I am with you,I try to teach my kids all I can ,all the time...its so little tho.....sigh....
  • 2gun2gun Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    longhunter ,i dont think they are that worried about teaching our kids that hunting is barbaric. the fact is that america has largely become an urban country and most people couldnt find north with a gps system in their landrover.

    heres why i think they are trying to get rid of assualt weapon(any gun that shoots)we are spending 87billion in iraq, we run a deficit every year, we have all kinds of social programs that require money, we have added a drug benefit to medicare that every economist has said will cost way more than 400 billion, all this stuff ad nauseum.we have all kinds of rules and regulations that make it prohibitivelly expensive to manufacture in this country so all of our manufacturing jobs are going overseas. we are rapidly becoming a nonproducing service economy where we trade money for services and fool ourselves into thinking its added value.i read a paper recently that says that almost all walmart employees can qualify for welfare and foodstamps at the minimum wage and they are the nations largest employer.

    our ability to protect american jobs and tax goods coming in from elsewhere haqs been signed away by the political elite in the name of a global economy. however most of the places producing stuff are producing to export to the usa where people have dollars to spend. the workers producing the stuff cannot afford what they are producing nor could they afford anything we might export to them hence the lie to the global economy.here in the usa the consumer is expected to spend what he did last year to keep the economy going even if the job he had last was exported to someplace where they could do his job cheaper!! that is the lie to the domestic economy, it does not hold water that a jobless economic recovery can exist.

    now to a lesson in history, in the great depression there was a large group of people that marched on washington they were called the bonus army and were looking for some help from hoover in the form of a bonus that had been promised to the srvicemen from ww1 and had not been paid. the fear was so great in those days that the goverment ordered black jack pershing and the army into washington to drive out the bonus army and they did. they fired on us citizens who were at the bottom of their luck to force them out of the capital. we are seeing a resurgence of all the forces that were at hand during that time, anarchism is back, large amounts of global debt secured by fast withering faith in goverments ability to pay, populations that can no longer afford the burdensome taxes imposed on them and goverments that can no longer afford to keep the promises they made with yesterdays money.

    the big difference, we have a huge u.n. that wants to keep order in place and the way to do that is to limit peoples ability to object to tyranny. a lot of politicians know this too and want to make sure that we cant object to whatever they impose if we have no teeth. in many other countries ny fiat they took the basic human right of self defense away except from the police or the elites. here we face an enemy that wants to do the same to us but has to get around the constitution without which a long time ago we would have been disarmed aided by well meaning and foolish individuals who naively think they can have security through disarmament.

    let me tie all this together, when the bills come due and there are less people working who can pay the piper, interest rates go up to make it worthwhile for foriegnors to lend us their moneythe banks come knocking for the house payments and theres no milk in the fridge. those who signed everything away dont want an armed populace thats angry.

    one final thing, the economic guys who advocate world trade under gatt keep telling us that as the chinese make more money they will start buying more expensive us products.if the chinese are already making a lot of the products we use and shipping them over here cheaper than we can make them, why would they need product from u workers? any us company that wanted to sell to the chinese would build a factory there and keep the profit difference from paying american workers and shipping costs.

    any thoughts?

    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    wow......2gun....sure is well thought and well written.I think that the thing about hunting is a geographic thing.I mean to even think that they would EVER get guns from Mainers is going to take some thought on their part.That said ,I agree that The thoughts on wal-mart and wages etc. is accurate.I do however think that we are in a large part responsible for a big portion of it.True corporate America sends lots out for profit...still I do believe that we are asking too much as laborers.I know that I will get flamed for that statement but we are just too damn spoiled.36,000.00 SUV's,250,000.00 homes,camps that folks would be happy to live in etc.etc. etc.We all expect to much,I will expound on this more again later,got a call that I HAVE to take....L.H.
  • WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 15,506 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is a topic that makes me sleepless at night. I am in the military, I would walk away in a second if such an uprising happened, then I could be charged with treason, or of course killed defending the constitution in my home land. I think many of the U.S. military would follow sheepishly into a civil war, after all that's what we're talking about. My worst nightmare is having this happen while I was deployed, which puts me in a place to trust someone else with my guns, and resources. I would come home to nothing, but a country in revolution, and the inability to help my country. This fear is so deep in my blood that I will not retire from the military as I do not believe I have the time. Am I wrong. Can anyone offer a best guess of when a worst case scenario will/could happen? Those that have been responding to this thread have worded it superbly, I feel that I'm just a lamen with my heart in the right position so please cut me a little slack. I am single, I am well armed, I know how to live off the land, I know how to fight.

    R/

    Dave


    How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Dave W,Not trying to keep you awake longer but I believe that your fears are well founded....I too believe the military will by and large,just follow orders.If the majority of you all are deployed at the time then it would seem the U.N. would have to come help quell the "uprising"Now there is a real fear....I mean I am sure our enemies no what our strength is here at home,or is not.....another scarey thought.As far as when? who knows...I believe that the time may be drawing nearer than we might think....just a feeling....but we are now losing our constitutional rights at such a rate that something will have to give somewhere....But who knows.....I always thought that I would never live to see it....as in its a LONG way away.Now I am not so sure.............
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by longhunter
    wow......2gun....sure is well thought and well written.I think that the thing about hunting is a geographic thing.I mean to even think that they would EVER get guns from Mainers is going to take some thought on their part.That said ,I agree that The thoughts on wal-mart and wages etc. is accurate.I do however think that we are in a large part responsible for a big portion of it.True corporate America sends lots out for profit...still I do believe that we are asking too much as laborers.I know that I will get flamed for that statement but we are just too damn spoiled.36,000.00 SUV's,250,000.00 homes,camps that folks would be happy to live in etc.etc. etc.We all expect to much,I will expound on this more again later,got a call

    that I HAVE to take....L.H.

    Finally getting back here....Anyhow where was I?Oh ya...The big picture.Americans mostly do not CARE about the big picture,the global economy or anything else.They are by and large a populace of selfish fools that are only worried about themselves.Theu actually believe that the reason third world countries are that way is because the people IN those countries are uneducated,and lazy.They do not WANT to see how the rest of the world lives.....what they do without...it might make them feel guilty about what they have.I mean its MORE important to have a HUGE expensive SUV than to use a smaller more efficiant vehicle right???I mean what could they have done with that extar money?It would have only fed a few hungry familes somewhere else or right there in the states for that matter.What has happended to compassion,caring?It has been replaced....with matieralisim etc.....Its an attitude....Thats the problem in this country,the attitude or the LACK of it,whichever way you prefer to look at it I guess.I agree with what you have said thriugh out....The biggest thing is tho WHOM do WE have to BLAME??? We must ALL look in a mirror...some more than others ,but all.We did this to ourselves.We've BEEN doing it with this attitude since we got here.Remember the American Indian?Things haven't changed so much....just the faces...the greed...and the steady lack of caring amounst the general population....HOW do you teach people to care?About anythin....Much less about rights...like speach,firearms etc.etc. We gotta reach em,teach em,or all has been and is...in vain.And the Great experiment will fail,as have all the rest before it........?
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Well thought out responses,above.

    The absolute insane course for our masters would be to put foreign troops in our streets.Thusly,I really hope that is what they have in mind..as postulated some years ago by a prominate politician.

    They will lose,if they do that.

    Martial law,using the guy down the street..that will be tough.

    The above posts is why I advocate removing all intercourse with the political system..because the screwing is all one way.

    The laws will rapidly become draconian..as will the law enforcement methods.That would be the absolute best course..because the men with ANY understanding of the Constitution are OLD...only a few youngsters are taught at home that we even Have a Constitution.

    God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Highball: I agree with your last post. But the present undesirable state of our country was brought about by people and their ideas. Other people, such as us, and our ideas can change things to where they should be. But we must work together, work hard, and work smart. And that would be a whole lot easier than living through another revolution.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A recent poll of the troops said 25% would fire on civilians. THAT keeps me awake at night!
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    trapp55: you are justified in staying awake at night because of the poll indicating that 25% of the troops would fire on American Civilians. But if the gun-grabbers don't take away all our guns, the 75% of the troops that WON'T fire on civilians will be standing shoulder-to-shoulder with American gun owners firing on that 25% of soldiers that you are worried about.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    I hope you to be right fox.......but I DON"T see it.Even in the military...its a world,a country,an attitude about whats in it fir me.Not that ALL are that way,,NO I do not believe that,but they all have mouths to feed as we do etc.I expect SOME would stand at our side,but I am afraid the number might depress us all.I expect the worse,hope for the best and attempt to make the best happen.....As I stated before if we all didn't EXPECT so mush it would be a different world/country even now.YOu can't blame this all on the welfare people,or the folks tryin to get a piece o the pie.Someone is LETTING them all do that.BECAUSE they gain votes from it.Its gonna be tough to overcome those votes unless we get more off their butts....Me included....and we should EXPECT a bit less,to want to HAVE all these things FROM government,well them we gotta pay the piper.........
  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    FOX...The sane people in this state(CA.) are finaly waking up. We have a good conservative (and staunch 2nd amendment supporter)candidate for senate so we we can oust Babs Boxer. Comrade Fienstein is next on the list. I was to the point of finding another state to move to, but i think the people finaly got a fire lit under their a$$e$. Now i think i'll stick around, stir the fire, and watch the fun!
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    TRAPP55; Get that FIRE started and if I can help here from Kansas let ME KNOW!

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    LH, that is why the founders did NOT give the authoruty for entitlements of ANY kind, they knew it to be just a way to buy votes. BUT as with the 2nd, they have blurred the statement "general welfare of the people" to mean ANYTHING they need to give the people to get a vote. You and I foot the bill. Man, what a bounty when some lawyer thought of this one.
    I hope that the "75%" are patriotic enough to stand with us but maybe they were just scared to offer an opinion, who knows? It's up to us anyway. The founders made it possible. I am so glad that they were God fearing, and knew not to trust human nature.
    2gun. Your post on 12/15. BRILLIANT!
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