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Am I a Radical?

SkyWatcherSkyWatcher Member Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
Well, over the past year I've spent a lot of time over in the general discussions section, but never ventured over here to the gun rights section. I just finished reading through the "Would You Fight" thread - long read but worth it.

But I have a question? I am thirsty for more information like this. I have long known that I have opinions different from most. I don't like much government at all, believe that there should be few, if any, restrictions on individual action other than what is necessary to enforce the "social contract" (meaning to operate our government in the limited way that was intended by our founding fathers) and I think that our country is going the wrong way as far as size of goverment and restriction of personal liberty is concerned.

However, most of this exists as a vague unsettledness in my mind with the status quo. I know that I don't agree with a lot that is going on, but I am largely ignorant of what specifically is being to "done to us" and what I can do about it. Most people I know would probably label me as a radical just becuase I believe that goverment should be radically reduced, and that I believe that our second amendmant rights are there to protect "us" against "them" if it ever came down to it. I am floored that most people blindly believe in the goodness of goverment. They can't possible imagine that we would ever need to defend ourselves against the "authorities". How hard is it to realize that government is only as good as the people who make it up. And if "we the people" have no stong convictions about anything much at all, then we are going to be led by those who do. Sometimes those people who lead are not going to be looking out for your own good - most likely their own gain. We have to believe and we have to enforce the protections that were guaranteed to us by our constitution. If we don't, then we'll see them stripped slowly away like we're seeing now.

Bottom line is - I want more information. Where is a good place to start? I would love a good book. I've done some looking, but there sure are some wackos out there, and I would like to get some good advice on resources. Any input is appreciated.

To whom much is given, much is expected.

Comments

  • pickenuppickenup Member, Moderator Posts: 22,392 ******
    edited November -1
    SkyWatcher;
    Welcome to the outlands. LOL

    How does this sound to you?

    Everyone should be free to do as they choose, so long as they don't infringe upon the equal freedom of others.

    Human interaction should be peaceful, voluntary, and honest. It is never acceptable to use physical force to achieve your goals. The only time force is acceptable is when you are defending against force.

    This might not seem very radical. After all, your parents probably taught you not to cheat, steal or pick fights -- in other words, not to use force against others. What sets us apart is that we don't make any exceptions to this principle -- not even for governments.

    In this view, governments should be held to the same standards of right and wrong as individuals. As a result, we believe that governments should not interfere with the interactions and exchanges of peaceful people.

    We are nearly always opposed to gun control. Controlling guns limits the individual freedom of law-abiding citizens.

    Find out more.
    http://www.libertarian.org/liborgtext.html



    The gene pool needs chlorine.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    Is "radical" a bad thing? I guess in the pc way. You see , they come up with labels that sound bad or seem bad. "yea, we'll call these free-thinkers radicals, and everyone will disassocite themselves from them." If I'm a scary "radical" to them, who cares? I think what is going on is unacceptable, and it is my belif that the founders are doing back flips in the grave because of the present situation with their experiment. Call me a radical, big whoop. I wear it proudly, it says I'm not like 97% of the people. From where I sit, that's good, not bad.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Skywatcher...........welcome,hope yu stay over here more and join in often.Our founding fathers were considered radical in their day.Wear it like a badge!There is much good reading go back thru the past threads as you have time,some REAL good stuff in there...L.H.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    skywatcher: Idoubt that anyone sees themselves cleary but I don't think you are a radical. I am also amazed the so many, many citizens think of all our governerments as being our parents and would never do anything to harm us. I think especially our US Govt has and might stillharm it's own people. Remember the American Indians slaughtered by US Military, Blacks kept in slavery with help of US govt. until Lincoln decided to free them, The US Military Veterns peaceable marching on Washing, DC to ask for their bonuses since they needed the money and were fired on by US troop, the labor union organizers at the turn of the 20th century fired on by US Troops,, the unarmed Kent State college students protesting the Viet Nam war fired on by Govt. troops, Japanese Americans put into prison camps at gunpoint during WWII just because they looked like the enemy, Waco where you know that at least a few of those people had to be innocent of anything but burned to death anyway, Randy Weaver's wife holding her baby in the doorway of their cabin and she was shot and killed by FBI sniper who I believes still has his job. This was after the FBI shot and killed Weaver's dogs. And there are others.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • 2gun2gun Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    hey tr youre a radical. actually i find most of us to make sense, radicals in my mind are the people who feel they need to redistribute wealth and punish those who worked hard to make itby giving their hard earned dollars to the slackers who diddnt want to work.


    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
  • WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 15,506 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Skywatcher- You took the words right out of my mouth, and we reached the same conclusions via the same means. And we're both looking for more information. I'm glad I'm not the only one drawing these conclusions, and I'm not scared to be in the minority of the public for certain.

    R/

    Dave


    How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
  • SkyWatcherSkyWatcher Member Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:and I'm not scared to be in the minority of the public

    I hear ya Dave...I'd be scared if I wasn't in the minority.

    To whom much is given, much is expected.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 2gun
    hey tr youre a radical. actually i find most of us to make sense, radicals in my mind are the people who feel they need to redistribute wealth and punish those who worked hard to make itby giving their hard earned dollars to the slackers who diddnt want to work.


    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban


    I think that there is a need for Public welfare of a sort.[:0]Did I say that?Yes,that said,let me explain.There are those who truely NEED.There is a HUGE difference between NEED ans WANT.When I stand in line at a store and watch some one on foodstamps get Steak,and name brand everything etc,and the working stiff next to him get hamburg,I just wanna puke.I believe in good medical care to all.It isn't right that in a country this great George should get better Health care than that same working stiff.He works a s hard,just because his family wasn't loaded,why does it make him worth less/How do you put a value on human life? The freeloaders ,well put them to work building roads by hand,its worked before.....I do not think we need to reditibute wealth.....you worked and earned it...its yours.That said would you help a neighbor in NEED,if you could afford to.?and a lot of these needing are KIDS.Its not the KIDS fault the parents are lazy good for nothings....How do we turn a blind eye to them? Not accusing here,asking.Our syetem does not work,we all know that.How do we fix it?
  • SkyWatcherSkyWatcher Member Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Longhunter: I agree, there are truly people in need. I also believe that we have a moral obligation to help them. I also believe that when you enter into the social contract (i.e become or are born a citizen) that the obligation is binding.

    The question is how do we help them; or, more importantly, who helps them? I don't think that the gov't can do this effectively. They've tried handouts - bad idea, didn't work. They've tried welfare-to-work, good idea in theory, been hard for them to pull it off. I think that introducing the government into the equation builds in a layer of complexity and adds a party not all that concerned with waste of money, time, and resources. Maybe we are better off leaving this effort to private citizens and private organizations?

    I have heard others say here that this is what was done for the majority of recorded history. That churches and the like were responsible for helping those in need. In my opinion, churches and other private organizations would do a much better job of ensuring that thier money and time is well spent, in addition, these organization are often tied to one or a small group of communities, giving them the benefit of having an idea of who is truly in need and who is not.

    I guarantee you that your average church down the street will not support a family indefinately. Say that church kept bringing food to a family for months on end - bringing it to a family where the parent/s didn't have job and wasn't looking for one. I don't think that the assistance would last very long. And they would probably know if the parent was in fact looking for a job becuase of their close community ties. And if they couldn't hook him up with something, they'd at least know the reality of the situation.

    But what about the kids if mom and/or dad decide not to try to do anything to help their situation? Should the kids suffer becuase of mom and dads indifference? No. But I don't know the solution to that one.

    To whom much is given, much is expected.
  • flat8flat8 Member Posts: 887 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    SkyWatcher -

    Yes, you are definately a nutty radical.[;)]

    As for me, I was thinking like you are now a few years back . . and began to read and read and read some more - and here is what I came up with.

    Magazines -

    Weekly Standard is pretty good.
    Economist
    Human Events
    NewsMax
    the American Sentinal
    The New American

    contrast what you read in the above with

    The Nation
    Time
    Foreign Affairs
    Newsweek

    and come up with your own belief system.

    In addition, I've read a ton about Reagan, as his beliefs about this country match most closely with my own. I recommend -

    An American Life
    Reagan in his own Words
    How Ronald Reagan won the Cold War
    and How Ronald Reagan changed my life. All good books.

    Also, try

    Atlas Shrugged. Love that book. Sure, it's a novel, but it is so damn pertinant for what is going on today.

    Anyway, welcome to the club.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    skywatcher,
    You see this is where it all went south.Bear with me here for a moment,ok?In the old days(days of the founders)These folks had God,church in everything that they did.The church WAS the people,the PEOPLE were the church.Take that one step furthur......The government was set up to be FOR the people,BY the people.So ,THE church came right along with it.I'm not trying to get into a religious debate here ,or get off track.Just to keep it ALL in perspective.If the church,takes care of welfare,and the chrch IS the people,and the GOVERNMENT IS the people......see where I am headed?That is why I believe that church and state were actually together when the founders wrote all this....The NEW thinking has perverted ALL of the Constitution WAY beyond what the founders could possibly invisioned.,Anyhow with all this old thinking then they would have ASSUMED THAT GOVERNMENT(and CHURCH) would have worked together to solve hunger,housing,poverty etc. Which is as it should be as they were INTENDED to be one and the same.Now with all our seperatist horse manure we want the CHURCH to pick up the tab ALONE. There are some that can and do try to do just that.There are however many little country churches that just CAN'T. I do agree that the system is broken.The reason that we can't seem to fix it is the vote.The very thing that our country is founded on is holding us back.The poltiticians will not go against welfare or reform it ,it is political suicide.That means that more of the welfare people vote and have more influence than the others.What does that say about the state of our country?And our Constitution.Just some of my thoughts.........L.H.
  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    L.H...I've been in line at the store and seen that. Had to bite my tongue. What if; A law was passed that people on welfare could not vote. Then a welfare populace could not vote themselves entitlements thus encourageing them to get off the welfare smorgasboard. Nothing like having to work for a living and paying taxes to put a damper on socialist behavior...sorry...progressive thinking.
  • 2gun2gun Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    there is somethig to be said for some short term help but the wholesale lifesyle we are now trying to wean people off of is a little ridiculous.

    generally people in this country had a calvinist lifestyle,you were expected to work and if the lord found favor with you you would see results. when the first govt assistance checks were made during the depression, most people who signed up were in desperate shape and were mortally embarrassed by needing to be assisted rather than be able to fend for themselves. today ypu have legions of well paid advocacy group lawyers suing everyone everywehere to tp have the right to be slackers and live off the public dole. the biggest forn of this is the new "right to housing". i pay my landlord and if someone else chooses not to i pay his too(through the city of course).

    its not really that simple but if we stopped a lot of the ridiculous lawsuits had a commonsense job creation and protection program for american workers it would go a long way. the dole should be there as a short term fix to help people when they desperately need it but along with it should be a requirement to train for a new career or something more useful than the workfare guys sweeping the streets. that was useless work. they needed to be able to make a living afterwards and sweeping the street doesnt help one learn how to make a lving.

    even so, the assistance should be somewhat embarrassing.otherwise it becomes just another right to be enjoyed.

    the goverment and the church were never one in this country. as the revival movement came to be in the 1800's it did get more involved in government but good works were the domain of various societes of the areas. whats broken is the loss of the calvinist lifestyle and the neverending loss of goodpaying jobs which are replaced with mcjobs that one cannot hope to survive on. somewhere along the way the american dream was stolen by both parties from the people so they could have a bit more power.

    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Recently the some smart and reasonable person/agency in the US Govt. tried to require that if someone got free taxpayer help like for example living for free or greatly reduced rent in a housing project that all able-bodied people that didn't have to care for children had to do a few hours of community servce each week. Naturally therre was outrage not only from the people affected but their proffessional suppporters, etc. So I don't know what happened to the idea but it was a good one coming from the govt. and all. Actually I think a lot of people in power in govt. would liketo have all of us on welfare and living in govt. housing. That way they could control almost each and everything wwe do and we all would in effect be enslaved and the govt. would have no need to fear or respect the citizens.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 2gun
    there is somethig to be said for some short term help but the wholesale lifesyle we are now trying to wean people off of is a little ridiculous.

    generally people in this country had a calvinist lifestyle,you were expected to work and if the lord found favor with you you would see results. when the first govt assistance checks were made during the depression, most people who signed up were in desperate shape and were mortally embarrassed by needing to be assisted rather than be able to fend for themselves. today ypu have legions of well paid advocacy group lawyers suing everyone everywehere to tp have the right to be slackers and live off the public dole. the biggest forn of this is the new "right to housing". i pay my landlord and if someone else chooses not to i pay his too(through the city of course).

    its not really that simple but if we stopped a lot of the ridiculous lawsuits had a commonsense job creation and protection program for american workers it would go a long way. the dole should be there as a short term fix to help people when they desperately need it but along with it should be a requirement to train for a new career or something more useful than the workfare guys sweeping the streets. that was useless work. they needed to be able to make a living afterwards and sweeping the street doesnt help one learn how to make a lving.

    even so, the assistance should be somewhat embarrassing.otherwise it becomes just another right to be enjoyed.

    the goverment and the church were never one in this country. as the revival movement came to be in the 1800's it did get more involved in government but good works were the domain of various societes of the areas. whats broken is the loss of the calvinist lifestyle and the neverending loss of goodpaying jobs which are replaced with mcjobs that one cannot hope to survive on. somewhere along the way the american dream was stolen by both parties from the people so they could have a bit more power.

    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban



    As per the assistance ,It was embarassing because they had pride in themselves...something that folks today lack....to a greater degree than ever before.They are all worried about their "fair"share. As per the church,you are wrong there.The church was the "body of believers"Not a place or a gathering ,but a mindset.When any government thing opened it was allmost always opened in prayer,They believed in the bible and new darn well what it said within its pages,You open with prayer,and the bible says where ver 2 (or was it 3?)or mare are gathered in his name.That was what they believed,it is fact,no,they didn't hold "church"as we know it today,that I agree with! However the notion that they did not apply their church or faith beliefs thruout their public life is just lucicris.One more time as I've invited all to do.Go back in history,look up the justices decisions for the first 100-200 years.MANY times they actually recorded the scripture that they based their decision upon.....I do certainly agree that it was both Parties that stole the dream however.The lack of civic pride,the lack of faith,the lack of Patriotisim,the shortcomings of our education system and greed have all helped us to get where we are.
    Just HOW MANY of us would ACTUALLY be willing to give as those wrly Patriots did to bring this country back to square one? That answer friends will speak volumes...........
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Radical..?? Hardly.
    Given the views expressed..Sorry,fella,you don't make the grade.

    No,you are going to have to settle for Constitutionalist..and the Constitution is the exact middle of the road....balancing the REAL extremists..those in power today..and those in power last administration.
    Never allow the enemy to redefine terms..we lose.

    Our founders had a HEALTHY DISTRUST in GOVERNMENT...that is why they left us government..notice the small letters.

    A good read is..American Family [email protected]
    A news letter put out monthly by a woman dedicated to the truth.
    Costs about 20 bucks a year..but good stuff covering a wide range of abusives.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    plenty of "false pride" going around these days though, LH. People killing other people left and right because of simple disagreements. You know,"you disrespected me" *bang*. Oh, another evil gun killed someone. False pride: no legitimate right to have pride, but have it, of a sort, anyway, just because you breath?
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
    plenty of "false pride" going around these days though, LH. People killing other people left and right because of simple disagreements. You know,"you disrespected me" *bang*. Oh, another evil gun killed someone. False pride: no legitimate right to have pride, but have it, of a sort, anyway, just because you breath?


    I agree,Pride can be a double edged weapon/sword ,but in the proper perspective is a good thing...up to a point. We have come full circle have we not?The west was like that and the east as well for a while,where life was cheap and folks killed just on account of a "look" or a comment or for a few bucks ,for whatever....We settled that for a while,with shotguns,Winchesters,handguns strapped to the sides and a rope handy......
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