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Avoiding All-Out War With The Gun Grabbers?
tr fox
Member Posts: 13,856
I have read numerous descriptions of what actions many of my fellow gun owners will take if and when the government agents storm their house to take away all their guns. And I have read about some gun owners wanting to expend a lot of time and effort on forming a type of self-defense organization to get ready to fight if and when needed. And I have been particulary bothered by the fact the Rick Stanley is sitting in a Denver CO jail simply because he actually chose to use the open carry gun rights granted to him by the COLO state constitution. I feel like a slacker, that he would risk so much to try and expose the daily and willful violation of the COLO state constituion by agencies who are sworn to uphold that constituion, while I am afraid to do the same here in KS. But I have come to a conclusion about all this and I would like everyone's opinion on my conclusion.
We still live in a country where as control can be peaceably seized at the ballot box and some degree of control can be excerized over our elected and appointed and hired officials, agents, dept. heads, etc. So for me the best way to cause the govt. people and gungrabbers the most harm is to actually get a third or fourth politicial party going. The way it is now with only the Democrats and Republicians is kind of like if there were only two brands of restaurants, Wendy's and Burger King, across the entire USA. And you are REQUIRED to eat there every day. With only two choices the two fast food restaurantgs aren't going to bother very much about paying attention to what the citizens want. They both know that no matter how bad they are, they are probably over time going to end up with about half the bussiness. So it is with the Democrats and Republicians. If you are against gun control, and don't like the way the Republicians are acting, what are you going to do, start voting Democratic? I don't think so. But if we had a 3rd or 4th party, the present 2 parties could no longer rest assured of still getting your vote no matter how badly they treat you. Any comments or feedback?
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
We still live in a country where as control can be peaceably seized at the ballot box and some degree of control can be excerized over our elected and appointed and hired officials, agents, dept. heads, etc. So for me the best way to cause the govt. people and gungrabbers the most harm is to actually get a third or fourth politicial party going. The way it is now with only the Democrats and Republicians is kind of like if there were only two brands of restaurants, Wendy's and Burger King, across the entire USA. And you are REQUIRED to eat there every day. With only two choices the two fast food restaurantgs aren't going to bother very much about paying attention to what the citizens want. They both know that no matter how bad they are, they are probably over time going to end up with about half the bussiness. So it is with the Democrats and Republicians. If you are against gun control, and don't like the way the Republicians are acting, what are you going to do, start voting Democratic? I don't think so. But if we had a 3rd or 4th party, the present 2 parties could no longer rest assured of still getting your vote no matter how badly they treat you. Any comments or feedback?
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
Comments
the 2 parties now have a more cosmetic than anything difference and pay no attention to what people want unless they feel they can get brownie points from it.why else do they tack pork hidden away in all legislation? why else do they pass useless but pretty sounding laws? and always call for something"bipartisanship",if the parties stand for something different is it any wonder they shouldnt want the same things? but with billion dollar elections here they all want dinner with people who can pay and they dont really care about much else.
for inspiration look to the greens(anathema to hunters)they have the right ideas on building a party. i ascribe to libertarian values but dont know much about them as a party. they certainly dont field candidates in nyc. here we get democrats turned republican with democrat values to win and the republican party rejoices that they have a republican guv and mayor even though they stand for nothing they republican party does.
the big fear is that our votes wont count if we go third party look again to the greens, they still are a force after being blamed for the loss al bore. we need a constitionalist party that believes in not giving away the store,that the constitution and the bill of rights is the supreme law of the land and supercedes state and city law.jobs for american workers in spite of gatt nafta and whatever new trde agreement that has been signed. if we pay 25% of the cost of the un we should have 25% of the vote, if the rest of the world doesnt feel thats fair let them start paying its way. stop aid all over the world, if someone else is picking up the tab they will spend it, maybe they can figure out how to stop whatever problems they have if noone willpay them for it. if we are sending troops to a foriegn country disarm the local population by whatever eans necessary, they do not live in the usa and do not have the same rights as we do.i could go on and on but you get the idea.
one final thing about hypocrisy in govt .look at bosnia, we were supposed to be there for a year its probably about 7 later and we will never leave because they will start killing each other again as soon as we leave. let the french,germans and russians deal with that mess, its their destabilizing problem, instead its the us which foots the lions share of the bill and the lions share of occupying soldiers.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
To Write in our next President.
We can not compete with Billion dollar political campainges but we can avoid the Democrat and Republican campaigns and elect our own Representative.
But whom is our Great Hope?
The only person I see fit to rule and keep our Government within spending limits is Jesse Ventura. Whom else is there?
I have read numerous descriptions of what actions many of my fellow gun owners will take if and when the government agents storm their house to take away all their guns. And I have read about some gun owners wanting to expend a lot of time and effort on forming a type of self-defense organization to get ready to fight if and when needed. And I have been particulary bothered by the fact the Rick Stanley is sitting in a Denver CO jail simply because he actually chose to use the open carry gun rights granted to him by the COLO state constitution. I feel like a slacker, that he would risk so much to try and expose the daily and willful violation of the COLO state constituion by agencies who are sworn to uphold that constituion, while I am afraid to do the same here in KS. But I have come to a conclusion about all this and I would like everyone's opinion on my conclusion.
We still live in a country where as control can be peaceably seized at the ballot box and some degree of control can be excerized over our elected and appointed and hired officials, agents, dept. heads, etc. So for me the best way to cause the govt. people and gungrabbers the most harm is to actually get a third or fourth politicial party going. The way it is now with only the Democrats and Republicians is kind of like if there were only two brands of restaurants, Wendy's and Burger King, across the entire USA. And you are REQUIRED to eat there every day. With only two choices the two fast food restaurantgs aren't going to bother very much about paying attention to what the citizens want. They both know that no matter how bad they are, they are probably over time going to end up with about half the bussiness. So it is with the Democrats and Republicians. If you are against gun control, and don't like the way the Republicians are acting, what are you going to do, start voting Democratic? I don't think so. But if we had a 3rd or 4th party, the present 2 parties could no longer rest assured of still getting your vote no matter how badly they treat you. Any comments or feedback?
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
Fox friend ....am I reading this right?YOu are thinking of a third and maybe 4 party system?I had for some reason thought you were against that idea.?I am behind it 100 and 50 percent!!!!!!!!We need to send a message to the 2 parties that we have had ENOUGH!!!.I will be busy in Maine this year fighting against the bear hunt initiative,however if anything gets goin with this ANYWHERE,let me know!!!Even a losing campaign will show them we mean business,The greens do impact policcy to a degree,they have to take them seriously...Its the way that it MUST work.They will repond to the numbers...it is the ONLY thing they understand! L.H.
Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket.
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
I think the NRA,GOA,voting,calling politicians..the whole grab bag of pointless posturing..is like 'ol lady thumb and her four daughters.
Feels sorta good..but ultimately the race will end.
Slowing the freight train will throw the burden on the kids..and they are not prepared because they remain ignorant of history and freedom.
Withdraw from the politics of destruction..and allow those who seek power to gain it.They will find the truth to the old saw..." Beware what you ask for..you might get it.."
Only one alternative to that scenerio ..all-out-war with the gun grabbers...SUBMIT.
5 YEARS,10 years,60 years..the decision will have to be made.Fight/Submit. Get used to the idea.
God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
The words you speak are true.
However...Even tho I focus strictly on gun control..I am fully aware of the inroads made by the Socialists in this country.EVERY ASPECT of them.
Taxation approaching 65%.
Loss of personal property rights.
Loss of personal freedom of movement.
Loss of determination of what is best for your own children.
Loss of the school system to gov. propaganda planks.
On and on and on and on and on and........
Going to be able to stop all these programs with this 3rd or 4th party..? That tv does more every day to destroy America then a million men could undo,working outside the system..and getting inside the system ain't gonna happen.They will not allow it.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
The march on Washington...doomed to failure,even if enough people went..
Voting on good men..A local doctor,young,went to Washington about ten years ago..with 72 freshmen Representivies. They were going to change the world..bring back Constitutional Government.
Within 2 years he came back..there was ten of the original 72 left still trying..the rest were scared off,bought off,or traded off.
He went back for 2 more years..(term limited himself..as a man is supposed to do)..he came back convinced that there would be NO CHANGE COMING FROM WASHINGTON..just more corruption,more sleeze,more laws.
Trying to write newspapers..? edited,scripted..with blaring headlines..COUNTRY BORN IN BLOOD...as one of my letters to the editor was captioned..
Buy a tv station...? Sooo..how to get the brain dead Rosie O'Donald fans to look at it ? Gonna hog tie them down..force them ?? Naaaa.
The American Voice I mentioned in another post..A lonely woman trying desperately to write about the truth..with a couple thousand subscribers..that is all.
I think it may be more basic then we know..in the end times..most will be blinded..by God...not allowed to see.
I cannot imagine any other reason for bringing the truth to people ..and they reject it.
God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
jpwolf,Agreed ,HOW to motivate????that IS the question....hmmmmmm
Vin makes some excellent points-points that I had not thought of before reading his books. They really opened my eyes.
Someone told me once that we have a 4 box system in America: the ballot box, the jury box, the soap box and the ammo box.
The Libertarian party can't get anything going because people are so brainwashed by the media and apathetic or ignorant about politics that they just follow the flock- yes, like sheep.
Look what happened after 9/11. People, ordinary people bought guns in droves to protect themselves. I thought 9/11 would bring a change for sure- a change to more self-reliance, a self-defense attitude because now the masses suddenly must realize that the government can't protect us- we must protect ourselves. Instead we get this G-- D--- "patriot act"! ...it's anything but what they call it- and brought on by our supposed savior, George W. Bush! I helped this guy get elected thinking he would bring back gun rights but instead he thinks the 'assault weapon ban' of 1994 SHOULD BE MADE PERMANENT! He just lost my vote- fool me once, shame on you- fool me twice, shame on me!
I think the best thing we can do (as I do) is try to convert the sheep with logical arguments that totally blow their little minds. That's the way thing's change- one sheep at a time.
After the beltway 'sniper' incident, a liberal aquantance asked me "What possible need would a person have to own a machine gun like that Bushmaster that the snipers were using?" Of couse I enlightened him that it wasn't a machine gun, it's not a very big caliber, you can shoot varmits with it, etc... I also informed him that I had far more deadly weapons at home (7.62 mm rifles) but I completely shut him down when I said that the real "need" for having a gun 'like that' was to guarantee that our government could never take away our freedom just as our founding fathers intended by including the 2nd amendment to the Constitution. He was speechless, but I made him think.
I think what will happen eventually in this country is that there will be a major infrastructure collapse of some kind. Be it a shortage of groceries, gasoline, whatever, and people will wake up because all-of-a-sudden their little existences are threatened and they can't do anything about it. What a shock to their systems, and what hell they will raise. It'll take something major to hit them at home to wake them up. Remember the old analogy about putting the frog in a pot of boiling water? Of course, he'll jump out- but put that same frog in a cool bowl and raise the heat just a little at a time and pretty soon you've got boiled frog.
I hope this gives some of you some hope, some course of action, something to think about.
Jim
However..defending myself,my loved ones,my community,and my country are a logical sequence..and the means with which to do so..no government in the world has the authority to remove arms from a free man.
Now...they do accomplish this,everywhere across the globe...and we shall see if they succeed right here.
I believe that we who know can do only one thing..as Soundco said.One person at a time..talk to them,allow them no hiding place for personal deception..turn the spotlight of truth upon their rosy eyeglasses..so they too can begin to see the little troll behind the microphone and on the tv's.
God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
And soundco: the weapon the snipers used was NOT a bushmaster, it was a deer rifle. You have fallen into the very media trap Highball described[;)]. Everytime they led the news with this story, they posted a picture of an AR-15 next to the anchorman's/woman's head to give us another black eye, via a lie. Did anybody (NRA) do anything to expose this lie for us and make them stop, or report that they had made a "mistake"? No. So now, it is "fact" that the rifle was one the most evil of all, the vile "assault" rifle.
Unless you are rich or otherwise powerful, you have to take actions available to the common people. Continue as you have already done and find an organization that can amplfiy your power by focusing the power of millions on us "common people". Support that/those organizations that speak for you in the best way you can.
Recruit more "soldiers" into our army. I kick myself for only recently discovering how easy that can be. I used to try and do it the hard way and "sell" people on joining my gun-rights group (name not important now) to help fight to stop the governement from taking our guns and other constitutional violations. But it was difficult for me because I was trying to get people to turn loose of money and not really get much that was tangible in return. Now I only try and sell them guns. When I spot an excellent buy, like the Yugo SKS's for only $89.95 (free shippping) at www.aimsurplus.com, I run copies of the ad (pictures of the gun help a lot) and give one to EVEYONE I think might be interested. I also tell them how much fun it is to shoot mine and how the Wolf 7.62x39 ammo is dirt cheap. (7.4 cents perround) I even went so far as to give a couple of potential buyers a free box of ammo (cost to me only about $1.50) which is great encouragement for them to go ahead and buy the gun. I have gotten several guys who didn't own a semi-auto (or any gun at all) to buy one and now we have a few more guys who are likely to be unhappy whenever they hear of an proposed ban on guns or semi-autos.
Another way to fight is to help get a viable 3rd or 4th party going. Under the present circumstances I doubt that will happen. Even the believers are afraid to "waste " their vote by giving it to the 3rd or 4th party and therby helping their second choice of parties lose. I think we should all encourage the 3rd and 4th parties to change their stragety and try less hard to win an election and devote their efforts and resources to changing the way American vote. As I have mentioned before, give each citizen the right to vote for as many canadidates for a PARTICULAR office as they want to. Example: vote for US president canadiate for Republican AND Liberterian. In this way you just might get a 3rd or 4th party off the ground an into success. But even if the 3rd or 4th party canadidate never gets elected, the votes they get just might scare the Democrates and the Republicians into cleaning up their act. JMHO.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
I posted a message the other day that you responded to and criticized me about my lack of knowledge in the 'beltway sniper' case and the rifle used. I do a lot of reading and this is the first time I've heard that a deer rifle was used. I would appreciate any more info you have on this subject including substantiation of your claim.
Thanks
On the other hand, who cares WHAT these idiots used? Do you really think the media would have been any less denigrating if they'd used a single shot .22 rifle? No. They would have called for an immediate ban of all .22 ammunition because it's 'too easy to get' or 'too deadly', 'too quiet', 'too cheap', too- ad infinitum...
I read somewhere recently (I don't remember where) that we 2nd amendment supporters ought to be as vocal, as passionate and as high-profile as any civil rights group was in the past because the 2nd Amendment is a CIVIL right! and yes, the powers-that-be want to take away our CIVIL RIGHTS! We ought to be as upset and insulted by anyone suggesting gun registration or bans as an African-American was when he was segregated. It's the same thing!
Thanks for listening and keep up the good fight!
Jim
Therein lies the real problem.Entirely to many "gun people" are comfortable with the level of control in this country..they fuss when a new law is passed..but quickly drop their head and start feeding again.
They lack the vision and courage to protest as the Blacks did.
Been reading this gun board for awhile ? Surely you have witnessed the abuse the few of us promoting freedom have taken..and take every day for talking about the Constitution.
Surely you know that people who talk about the Constitution too much are considered subversive in this country by the authorities..and watched ?
You speak the truth......
I would not be so sure that these rights will not be removed. Although we have a large population that enjoys having the right to own a gun or guns, there is a large percentage that either are too lazy to speak up or just don't care. I think you can look at the new S.569 as an example. The Heritage Fund is recording record low numbers of support for this extremely important bill.
We have a much larger problem on our hands folks, and it is going to take a revolt from everyone.
Comments?
Highball, dead on as usual.
Boycott, please elaborate on the problem as you see it. Need your take on it, to comment appropriately.
Sounco, I will do some research and get back on details.
Don't beat yourself up- just the other day I read in the newest "Gun Week" http://www.gunweek.com/ that there was indeed a Remington .308 700 and a .45 pistol purchased by a friend for Muhammad at one time that may have been used in a shooting before the Washington DC shootings. So check out the latest "Gun Week". But the article did go on to say that the rifle used in the Beltway was a Bushmaster .223.
Thanks,
Jim
I also believe we should have the right to vote for election or "ejection". If a trusted official is caught breaking the law or the public trust they could be "VOTED OUT" by the people,and a vote should be swift. A person voted out of a elected or appointed position should never be allowed to serve in any capacity again and should furthermore lose their right to vote in any future political election. They should also face any possible criminal charges and be sentenced more severely for breaking the public trust.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
________________
http://NationalGunBuyingDay.org
www.awbansunset.com
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
The beast MUST make a move that is far enough over the line that NO SANE man can ignore.
ANYONE stupid enough to move first will lose their life..and credibility for all Americans.
Patience is tough,my friend..try waiting and watching freedoms vanish for 40 years.I am waiting..so too should you.