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Avoiding All-Out War With The Gun Grabbers?

tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
I have read numerous descriptions of what actions many of my fellow gun owners will take if and when the government agents storm their house to take away all their guns. And I have read about some gun owners wanting to expend a lot of time and effort on forming a type of self-defense organization to get ready to fight if and when needed. And I have been particulary bothered by the fact the Rick Stanley is sitting in a Denver CO jail simply because he actually chose to use the open carry gun rights granted to him by the COLO state constitution. I feel like a slacker, that he would risk so much to try and expose the daily and willful violation of the COLO state constituion by agencies who are sworn to uphold that constituion, while I am afraid to do the same here in KS. But I have come to a conclusion about all this and I would like everyone's opinion on my conclusion.

We still live in a country where as control can be peaceably seized at the ballot box and some degree of control can be excerized over our elected and appointed and hired officials, agents, dept. heads, etc. So for me the best way to cause the govt. people and gungrabbers the most harm is to actually get a third or fourth politicial party going. The way it is now with only the Democrats and Republicians is kind of like if there were only two brands of restaurants, Wendy's and Burger King, across the entire USA. And you are REQUIRED to eat there every day. With only two choices the two fast food restaurantgs aren't going to bother very much about paying attention to what the citizens want. They both know that no matter how bad they are, they are probably over time going to end up with about half the bussiness. So it is with the Democrats and Republicians. If you are against gun control, and don't like the way the Republicians are acting, what are you going to do, start voting Democratic? I don't think so. But if we had a 3rd or 4th party, the present 2 parties could no longer rest assured of still getting your vote no matter how badly they treat you. Any comments or feedback?

When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
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Comments

  • 2gun2gun Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ive been saying this a long time. all politics are local and if you ccan get elected member of your local council that agree with us we can begin to retake our rights.

    the 2 parties now have a more cosmetic than anything difference and pay no attention to what people want unless they feel they can get brownie points from it.why else do they tack pork hidden away in all legislation? why else do they pass useless but pretty sounding laws? and always call for something"bipartisanship",if the parties stand for something different is it any wonder they shouldnt want the same things? but with billion dollar elections here they all want dinner with people who can pay and they dont really care about much else.

    for inspiration look to the greens(anathema to hunters)they have the right ideas on building a party. i ascribe to libertarian values but dont know much about them as a party. they certainly dont field candidates in nyc. here we get democrats turned republican with democrat values to win and the republican party rejoices that they have a republican guv and mayor even though they stand for nothing they republican party does.

    the big fear is that our votes wont count if we go third party look again to the greens, they still are a force after being blamed for the loss al bore. we need a constitionalist party that believes in not giving away the store,that the constitution and the bill of rights is the supreme law of the land and supercedes state and city law.jobs for american workers in spite of gatt nafta and whatever new trde agreement that has been signed. if we pay 25% of the cost of the un we should have 25% of the vote, if the rest of the world doesnt feel thats fair let them start paying its way. stop aid all over the world, if someone else is picking up the tab they will spend it, maybe they can figure out how to stop whatever problems they have if noone willpay them for it. if we are sending troops to a foriegn country disarm the local population by whatever eans necessary, they do not live in the usa and do not have the same rights as we do.i could go on and on but you get the idea.

    one final thing about hypocrisy in govt .look at bosnia, we were supposed to be there for a year its probably about 7 later and we will never leave because they will start killing each other again as soon as we leave. let the french,germans and russians deal with that mess, its their destabilizing problem, instead its the us which foots the lions share of the bill and the lions share of occupying soldiers.

    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
  • Red223Red223 Member Posts: 7,946
    edited November -1
    What is needed is one Die Hard Constitutionalist NOW so a web page can be put up and mass emailings be sent out....

    To Write in our next President.

    We can not compete with Billion dollar political campainges but we can avoid the Democrat and Republican campaigns and elect our own Representative.

    But whom is our Great Hope?

    The only person I see fit to rule and keep our Government within spending limits is Jesse Ventura. Whom else is there?
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tr fox
    I have read numerous descriptions of what actions many of my fellow gun owners will take if and when the government agents storm their house to take away all their guns. And I have read about some gun owners wanting to expend a lot of time and effort on forming a type of self-defense organization to get ready to fight if and when needed. And I have been particulary bothered by the fact the Rick Stanley is sitting in a Denver CO jail simply because he actually chose to use the open carry gun rights granted to him by the COLO state constitution. I feel like a slacker, that he would risk so much to try and expose the daily and willful violation of the COLO state constituion by agencies who are sworn to uphold that constituion, while I am afraid to do the same here in KS. But I have come to a conclusion about all this and I would like everyone's opinion on my conclusion.

    We still live in a country where as control can be peaceably seized at the ballot box and some degree of control can be excerized over our elected and appointed and hired officials, agents, dept. heads, etc. So for me the best way to cause the govt. people and gungrabbers the most harm is to actually get a third or fourth politicial party going. The way it is now with only the Democrats and Republicians is kind of like if there were only two brands of restaurants, Wendy's and Burger King, across the entire USA. And you are REQUIRED to eat there every day. With only two choices the two fast food restaurantgs aren't going to bother very much about paying attention to what the citizens want. They both know that no matter how bad they are, they are probably over time going to end up with about half the bussiness. So it is with the Democrats and Republicians. If you are against gun control, and don't like the way the Republicians are acting, what are you going to do, start voting Democratic? I don't think so. But if we had a 3rd or 4th party, the present 2 parties could no longer rest assured of still getting your vote no matter how badly they treat you. Any comments or feedback?

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.


    Fox friend ....am I reading this right?YOu are thinking of a third and maybe 4 party system?I had for some reason thought you were against that idea.?I am behind it 100 and 50 percent!!!!!!!!We need to send a message to the 2 parties that we have had ENOUGH!!!.I will be busy in Maine this year fighting against the bear hunt initiative,however if anything gets goin with this ANYWHERE,let me know!!!Even a losing campaign will show them we mean business,The greens do impact policcy to a degree,they have to take them seriously...Its the way that it MUST work.They will repond to the numbers...it is the ONLY thing they understand! L.H.
  • 3gunner3gunner Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't think of one single negative reason for Americans to have a fourth political party option. I for one would love to have that option. Everyone probably would; except for those previously elected R's and D's. It sucks when you walk into that booth knowing you are only voting for the lesser of the two evils. It would be up to us now to get the ball rolling. We may not be here to enjoy the success of such party but those after us might. When you look at the Libertarians as an example you can plainly see they are growing at a somewhat steady rate. Their party was simply founded in a Colorado home in 1971. So, my opinion, fourth party would be great. We would just have to be aware of the time it would take to gain any noticable success. What do you say we all meet at tr fox's place and get something stated.



    Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    Fox, this time we are in complete agreement. And the facts are, with 90 million gunowners, the right candidates would never lose! Realize one thing though, if you show any kind of momentum, there will be a smear campaign the likes of which have never been seen before from both sides, and from EVERY special interest group, because they ALL lose if we win. Including the NRA. So consider that. Anybody coming from a viable third party would have to be above reproach. Know anybody like that? They would have to be knowledgable in all facets of government, yet uncorrupted, and uncorruptable. And, when we start taking control of the highest offices in the land with our unrivaled majority of voters, in spite of their political incorrectness, our guys will either start dropping like fly's, or their guys would start joining our party, and corrupting it. But the fact is, we already DO have the majority, so the question is, why don't we use our power? LAZY. How do you motivate people, that are so unmotivatable, that the constant shredding of our most sacred and protective document can't get them up and moving? I fear that people have become so comfortable in their easy lives, that they just don't care what the bad guys do. As long as the bank account is healthy, who cares about anything else. The only thing people actually work towards are meaningless politically correct issues that aren't even close to real issues. How do you get these folks to take off the blinders and see the seriousness of our times?
  • 3gunner3gunner Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good point. If the guns owners of America take a viable stand they will attack the 2nd Ammendment like never before. Smear campaign would be a mild way to describe it.





    "Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
  • 2gun2gun Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    the party should not be a single item party. we share a lot of common beliefs besides the right to own guns. we may disagree on some tings but we certainly agree more than disagree.the second amendment is only one item in the bill of rights.

    happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    All of you have asked some excellent questions that I don't have the answers to. Longhunter I don't know why you thought I was against the idea of a active 3rd or 4th party, I have been for it for decades. Our government thinks competetion is great when it comes to our telephone service, for just one example, but then they seem to think that wwe only need two political parties. At least a few of us here like the idea and maybe we can convince people around us. I have bought this idea up to several different people at work and at first they are dazed and then after I explain how it could change America for the better they actually like the idea. All I can suggest is that if we somehow change the politial landscaape to show the 3rd & 4th parties and candidates they can actually have a chance to succeed, good candidates will appear and step forward. As it is now, who wants to step forward to be on the losing side?

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Trfox.........You have my most sincere apologies!Don't know why I had that impression ,but I am very happy to have it cleared up.This is a good place to share how we make or attempt to make converts of these 2 party people.Also how to get the non party people involved.Suggestions anyone?
  • WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 15,506 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am not a very educated man. Mostly all I know is from expierence and what I read. I believe in the constitution, I have been hearing more and more from the libertarians lately, but I believe the fourth party would be called constitutionalists? (SP) Which would be a party who supports The constitution, not lawyers, and judges, and big government. Lots of you are more educated than I am, I'm just asking for help from all of you, to explain the third and fourth party to me. I don't agree with the R's and definetly not the Democrats, I kind of believe in Darwinism, Survival of the fittest, does this sound wrong? Get rid of welfare, get rid of 300 government agencies, get rid of 20,000 gun laws, and that's just the tip of the ice berg. What ever happened to RIGHT AND WRONG! Thats' what I believe in, why doesn't anyone support right and wrong in government?

    R/

    Dave


    How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Dave....If you r going to keep church and state seperate...then WHO takes care of the widows?You want to do away with welfare,the church tells us to take care of widows and orphans....doing away with welfare,you could live with that?You find no compassion for the lady next door whos husband died at war,or putting out a fire or whatever?How is she to syrvive,what quality of life will she and the kids have?The Constitution has I believe some assumptions in it.That the most of them were believing christians is fact and documented.They believeing that would assume that the church would take care of the widow and her children.They would have discussed it at political meetings and at school and at church because then the church was entwined in EVERY part of your daily life.Indeed early meetings in local communities used to be at church,after the sermon.The Amish still practice this today.Too many laws?YES!!!!Too many Gov't agencies??YES<YES!!!!The right and wrong,absolutly....it would be right for the people to help the widow.....right???And the government and the people are supposed to be one and the same....right? Comments?L.H.
  • WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 15,506 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    LH- You have a good point to say the least, however the welfare system as it works today, makes it so that thousands of people become content to live in poverty and do nothing with thier lives. Abuse is the problem with welfare, not everyone on wellfare, you are right.

    R/

    Dave


    How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
  • stubdog69stubdog69 Member Posts: 45 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    back to the subject at hand, i am all for the third and fourth party systems, the boys in washington need a little scare to keep them in check once in a while. i think we as a whole could make great strides in removing some of the haneous gun laws that plague our country. i live in one of the worst places-illinois, next to california that is, and with the grand mayor daly screwing everything up for all of us hunters, collectors and dealersi fear the worst. first state, the federal. the trend is there is no going backwards. i am in full force with any idea someone has to balance this out.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    After watching and playing the game for 40 years...
    I think the NRA,GOA,voting,calling politicians..the whole grab bag of pointless posturing..is like 'ol lady thumb and her four daughters.

    Feels sorta good..but ultimately the race will end.
    Slowing the freight train will throw the burden on the kids..and they are not prepared because they remain ignorant of history and freedom.

    Withdraw from the politics of destruction..and allow those who seek power to gain it.They will find the truth to the old saw..." Beware what you ask for..you might get it.."

    Only one alternative to that scenerio ..all-out-war with the gun grabbers...SUBMIT.

    5 YEARS,10 years,60 years..the decision will have to be made.Fight/Submit. Get used to the idea.

    God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
  • IAMAHUSKERIAMAHUSKER Member Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with Highball. It is inevitable, just a matter of time.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    for those who almost seem resigned to all out war with the gun grabbers. If it does happen there will be more pain, anguish and suffering than most of the people alive in the USA have only seen on television and the movies. It would be far far better to expend maximum effort now and avoid that suffering by taking back our country at the ballot box perhaps with a third party, etc. It can be done but only if most of the people who think like us band together and more importantly ACT AND WORK TOGETHER.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Tr;
    The words you speak are true.
    However...Even tho I focus strictly on gun control..I am fully aware of the inroads made by the Socialists in this country.EVERY ASPECT of them.

    Taxation approaching 65%.
    Loss of personal property rights.
    Loss of personal freedom of movement.
    Loss of determination of what is best for your own children.
    Loss of the school system to gov. propaganda planks.

    On and on and on and on and on and........

    Going to be able to stop all these programs with this 3rd or 4th party..? That tv does more every day to destroy America then a million men could undo,working outside the system..and getting inside the system ain't gonna happen.They will not allow it.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Highball; it will only take a very small percentage of angony, sorrow, pain and loss for us to try and "get inside the system" as opposed to the alternative.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    You all are right.........yes fox,we need to fight at the box,but effectivly........how many gunowners are there?At 1.00 each HOW many million would we have? So HOW do wqe get that?HOW do you make people care beyound themselves.THAT is education,or the LACK of it I should say....Oh yes ITS gonna happen,who knows when...but it will...I would like to think that we could stop it,but believe best case scenario is to slow it down..........and yes,worse thing EVER was the damn TV,that and quick easy money,transportation,International transport...etc etc....BUT the horse is outta the barn,There just ain't any puttin him back.I want to have faith in my fellow Americans....I REALLY do and I am trying.....
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    Folks, we need an accurate poll of gunowners as to how many vote. Maybe more are voting than we think, but are simply eneducated on who is for/against and vote the wrong way. "Gun" people vote repub for "gunrights", and I've heard some say, "hunters vote dem for preservation of habitat/evironment/ecosystem". I don't know. And maybe hardly any are voting at all, as I suspect. If 90 million voters can be motivated, and educated, and there MUST be a way, they would own the political system. The NRA can't motivate them, but something/someone must be able to. What will it take? C'mon guys it can't be too late. They are not even storming our houses yet. How can we surrender before the war is even declared? Think think think. We need an answer, in my case, an answer to prayer. I do not want another bloody civil war if we can avoid it. But I thank God, that the founders had the foresight to give us that option, however, we are not quite there yet. We need exposure desparately. Which will be very difficult to get because of the brainwashed anti-gun masses but how else can we turn them into right-thinking people? How can we deprogram them without pumping it through their boob-tube? This is the only way. We should follow the example set by the "anti's", and beat them at their own game. Now how to achieve it?
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Ideas;
    The march on Washington...doomed to failure,even if enough people went..

    Voting on good men..A local doctor,young,went to Washington about ten years ago..with 72 freshmen Representivies. They were going to change the world..bring back Constitutional Government.

    Within 2 years he came back..there was ten of the original 72 left still trying..the rest were scared off,bought off,or traded off.
    He went back for 2 more years..(term limited himself..as a man is supposed to do)..he came back convinced that there would be NO CHANGE COMING FROM WASHINGTON..just more corruption,more sleeze,more laws.

    Trying to write newspapers..? edited,scripted..with blaring headlines..COUNTRY BORN IN BLOOD...as one of my letters to the editor was captioned..

    Buy a tv station...? Sooo..how to get the brain dead Rosie O'Donald fans to look at it ? Gonna hog tie them down..force them ?? Naaaa.

    The American Voice I mentioned in another post..A lonely woman trying desperately to write about the truth..with a couple thousand subscribers..that is all.

    I think it may be more basic then we know..in the end times..most will be blinded..by God...not allowed to see.

    I cannot imagine any other reason for bringing the truth to people ..and they reject it.

    God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    hmm, good point.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    So....repentance of a nation gone astray is probably the only way. We have many many problems besides gun control. I will still keep fighting for my beliefs, for I know the difference of right and wrong, and it is still my duty. That's the way He would have it. And who knows?
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    highball......your writings left me....well speechless!Something that just don't happen tp me much.But some real intuitive thinking there,I will pray and see if some dicernment may clear things a bit...this is DEEP thinking and I know that you know that....Thank you ,hmmmm...
    jpwolf,Agreed ,HOW to motivate????that IS the question....hmmmmmm
  • soundcosoundco Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't have the answers but one of the first things we must do is learn, read and think. There are some excellent books out there: Claire Wolf's "Don't Shoot the Ba---rds- Yet" and "101 Things To Do Til The Revolution", Vin Suprymiwicz's "Send In The Waco Killers" and "The Ballad of Carl Drega", John Lott's "Unintended Consequences" may be prophetic in the end.
    Vin makes some excellent points-points that I had not thought of before reading his books. They really opened my eyes.
    Someone told me once that we have a 4 box system in America: the ballot box, the jury box, the soap box and the ammo box.
    The Libertarian party can't get anything going because people are so brainwashed by the media and apathetic or ignorant about politics that they just follow the flock- yes, like sheep.
    Look what happened after 9/11. People, ordinary people bought guns in droves to protect themselves. I thought 9/11 would bring a change for sure- a change to more self-reliance, a self-defense attitude because now the masses suddenly must realize that the government can't protect us- we must protect ourselves. Instead we get this G-- D--- "patriot act"! ...it's anything but what they call it- and brought on by our supposed savior, George W. Bush! I helped this guy get elected thinking he would bring back gun rights but instead he thinks the 'assault weapon ban' of 1994 SHOULD BE MADE PERMANENT! He just lost my vote- fool me once, shame on you- fool me twice, shame on me!
    I think the best thing we can do (as I do) is try to convert the sheep with logical arguments that totally blow their little minds. That's the way thing's change- one sheep at a time.
    After the beltway 'sniper' incident, a liberal aquantance asked me "What possible need would a person have to own a machine gun like that Bushmaster that the snipers were using?" Of couse I enlightened him that it wasn't a machine gun, it's not a very big caliber, you can shoot varmits with it, etc... I also informed him that I had far more deadly weapons at home (7.62 mm rifles) but I completely shut him down when I said that the real "need" for having a gun 'like that' was to guarantee that our government could never take away our freedom just as our founding fathers intended by including the 2nd amendment to the Constitution. He was speechless, but I made him think.
    I think what will happen eventually in this country is that there will be a major infrastructure collapse of some kind. Be it a shortage of groceries, gasoline, whatever, and people will wake up because all-of-a-sudden their little existences are threatened and they can't do anything about it. What a shock to their systems, and what hell they will raise. It'll take something major to hit them at home to wake them up. Remember the old analogy about putting the frog in a pot of boiling water? Of course, he'll jump out- but put that same frog in a cool bowl and raise the heat just a little at a time and pretty soon you've got boiled frog.
    I hope this gives some of you some hope, some course of action, something to think about.
    Jim
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    The God I worship..DEMANDS that I should try to do whats right..always. Being human..I don't always succeed.

    However..defending myself,my loved ones,my community,and my country are a logical sequence..and the means with which to do so..no government in the world has the authority to remove arms from a free man.
    Now...they do accomplish this,everywhere across the globe...and we shall see if they succeed right here.

    I believe that we who know can do only one thing..as Soundco said.One person at a time..talk to them,allow them no hiding place for personal deception..turn the spotlight of truth upon their rosy eyeglasses..so they too can begin to see the little troll behind the microphone and on the tv's.

    God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    Agreed, Highball.
    And soundco: the weapon the snipers used was NOT a bushmaster, it was a deer rifle. You have fallen into the very media trap Highball described[;)]. Everytime they led the news with this story, they posted a picture of an AR-15 next to the anchorman's/woman's head to give us another black eye, via a lie. Did anybody (NRA) do anything to expose this lie for us and make them stop, or report that they had made a "mistake"? No. So now, it is "fact" that the rifle was one the most evil of all, the vile "assault" rifle.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    jpwolf; you asked a very honest question on your post 12-29-03 at 10:20. I appauld you for asking instead of telling as myself and so many others seem to do, although I am always open to hearing good ideas. You asked for ideas and what we could do.Here are just a few thoughts I humbly offer.

    Unless you are rich or otherwise powerful, you have to take actions available to the common people. Continue as you have already done and find an organization that can amplfiy your power by focusing the power of millions on us "common people". Support that/those organizations that speak for you in the best way you can.

    Recruit more "soldiers" into our army. I kick myself for only recently discovering how easy that can be. I used to try and do it the hard way and "sell" people on joining my gun-rights group (name not important now) to help fight to stop the governement from taking our guns and other constitutional violations. But it was difficult for me because I was trying to get people to turn loose of money and not really get much that was tangible in return. Now I only try and sell them guns. When I spot an excellent buy, like the Yugo SKS's for only $89.95 (free shippping) at www.aimsurplus.com, I run copies of the ad (pictures of the gun help a lot) and give one to EVEYONE I think might be interested. I also tell them how much fun it is to shoot mine and how the Wolf 7.62x39 ammo is dirt cheap. (7.4 cents perround) I even went so far as to give a couple of potential buyers a free box of ammo (cost to me only about $1.50) which is great encouragement for them to go ahead and buy the gun. I have gotten several guys who didn't own a semi-auto (or any gun at all) to buy one and now we have a few more guys who are likely to be unhappy whenever they hear of an proposed ban on guns or semi-autos.

    Another way to fight is to help get a viable 3rd or 4th party going. Under the present circumstances I doubt that will happen. Even the believers are afraid to "waste " their vote by giving it to the 3rd or 4th party and therby helping their second choice of parties lose. I think we should all encourage the 3rd and 4th parties to change their stragety and try less hard to win an election and devote their efforts and resources to changing the way American vote. As I have mentioned before, give each citizen the right to vote for as many canadidates for a PARTICULAR office as they want to. Example: vote for US president canadiate for Republican AND Liberterian. In this way you just might get a 3rd or 4th party off the ground an into success. But even if the 3rd or 4th party canadidate never gets elected, the votes they get just might scare the Democrates and the Republicians into cleaning up their act. JMHO.



    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • soundcosoundco Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi jpwolf:
    I posted a message the other day that you responded to and criticized me about my lack of knowledge in the 'beltway sniper' case and the rifle used. I do a lot of reading and this is the first time I've heard that a deer rifle was used. I would appreciate any more info you have on this subject including substantiation of your claim.
    Thanks
    On the other hand, who cares WHAT these idiots used? Do you really think the media would have been any less denigrating if they'd used a single shot .22 rifle? No. They would have called for an immediate ban of all .22 ammunition because it's 'too easy to get' or 'too deadly', 'too quiet', 'too cheap', too- ad infinitum...
    I read somewhere recently (I don't remember where) that we 2nd amendment supporters ought to be as vocal, as passionate and as high-profile as any civil rights group was in the past because the 2nd Amendment is a CIVIL right! and yes, the powers-that-be want to take away our CIVIL RIGHTS! We ought to be as upset and insulted by anyone suggesting gun registration or bans as an African-American was when he was segregated. It's the same thing!
    Thanks for listening and keep up the good fight!
    Jim
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    quote:We ought to be as upset and insulted by anyone suggesting gun registration or bans as an African-American was when he was segregated. It's the same thing!

    Therein lies the real problem.Entirely to many "gun people" are comfortable with the level of control in this country..they fuss when a new law is passed..but quickly drop their head and start feeding again.
    They lack the vision and courage to protest as the Blacks did.
    Been reading this gun board for awhile ? Surely you have witnessed the abuse the few of us promoting freedom have taken..and take every day for talking about the Constitution.

    Surely you know that people who talk about the Constitution too much are considered subversive in this country by the authorities..and watched ?
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    You speak the truth......
  • boycott_hollywoodboycott_hollywood Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by longhunter
    You speak the truth......


    I would not be so sure that these rights will not be removed. Although we have a large population that enjoys having the right to own a gun or guns, there is a large percentage that either are too lazy to speak up or just don't care. I think you can look at the new S.569 as an example. The Heritage Fund is recording record low numbers of support for this extremely important bill.

    We have a much larger problem on our hands folks, and it is going to take a revolt from everyone.

    Comments?
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    Hi soundco, I did not mean to sound critical of you at all, I apologize. I was merely trying to point out something, that the media always attempts to display guns in the worst possible light, and they have convinced the sheeple that the worst of all is the "assault" rifle, you know, the VERY one that the founders intended and in their day mandated for us to have. But I get your point totally about .22.
    Highball, dead on as usual.
    Boycott, please elaborate on the problem as you see it. Need your take on it, to comment appropriately.
    Sounco, I will do some research and get back on details.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    Well soundco, the only article I was able to find was a CNN report stating it was an AR-15. So I very humbly concede. I can't remember where I heard the report that it was a Ruger .223, but it seems I heard it on the news the day of the arrest. My bad. It appears I owe you another apology. This is gettin' to be a habit.
  • soundcosoundco Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi jpwolf,
    Don't beat yourself up- just the other day I read in the newest "Gun Week" http://www.gunweek.com/ that there was indeed a Remington .308 700 and a .45 pistol purchased by a friend for Muhammad at one time that may have been used in a shooting before the Washington DC shootings. So check out the latest "Gun Week". But the article did go on to say that the rifle used in the Beltway was a Bushmaster .223.
    Thanks,
    Jim
  • NANA Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with the third party idea, this country is supposed to be built on its diversity right? So lets deversify our political selection!

    I also believe we should have the right to vote for election or "ejection". If a trusted official is caught breaking the law or the public trust they could be "VOTED OUT" by the people,and a vote should be swift. A person voted out of a elected or appointed position should never be allowed to serve in any capacity again and should furthermore lose their right to vote in any future political election. They should also face any possible criminal charges and be sentenced more severely for breaking the public trust.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    NA: I like your ideas and welcome aboard. Some of us here on the gun rights forum feel very strongly about the state of the nation as you seem to feel. So far we haven't made any real progress other than posting to each other but hopefully we can come up with something that will actually effect the real world but not get us in jail.

    When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
  • ruger270manruger270man Member Posts: 9,361
    edited November -1
    Yeah, we need a party that really is "REPUBLICAN" and cares about the constitution, and the bill or rights. But its almost impossible to make it happen, the world becomes more left everyday, and I honestly feel there will one day be a civil war.. but by then there won't be enough "normal" people left to bring a victory.. [V][:(]

    ________________
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    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    so why wait for "some day"?
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Because its not yet time.
    The beast MUST make a move that is far enough over the line that NO SANE man can ignore.

    ANYONE stupid enough to move first will lose their life..and credibility for all Americans.

    Patience is tough,my friend..try waiting and watching freedoms vanish for 40 years.I am waiting..so too should you.
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