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Hand Gun`

A.GunA.Gun Member Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 2004 in Gun Rights and Constitutional Law
Hi, I am a minor and recently in Ohio they have passed a new handgun law that lets anyone with a good record over 21 cary a concealed handgun! In my opinion i find this a bad idea. Anyone else have this legislation in their state, and if so do you think it's good?
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Comments

  • ArmaliteA4ArmaliteA4 Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Better fasten your seatbelt a.gun....your gonna get some replies on this one
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  • FlatheadFlathead Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why do you see this as a bad idea?
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  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    A.Gun, what qualifcations and at what age do you think a citizen should be able to carry a concealed handgun?

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
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  • Broomie2Broomie2 Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A Gun: Are those the people you really have to fear?
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  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Let me preface this with, I think that gun laws are unconstitutional. Period. But since the "reality" of the world we live in is, that you WILL land in jail, for carrying a concealed firearm without one of their "permits."

    I live in a state that has (finally) passed a "shall issue" concealed carry law. I think it is good. It has been statistically proven that in states that have passed a "shall issue" law. The "violent" crime rate has gone down. There are no shootouts, or blood running in the streets, as prophesied by the anti-gunners. The statistics do show that the non-violent crime rate usually goes up some.

    A law abiding citizen, that is going to go through the trouble, and cost, of getting a permit, will not be the one to go on a shooting spree. Can it happen? Sure, anyone can snap at any time. If it happened, don't you think you would hear about it on the news, in states where they are trying to pass this kind of legislation? I (did not) (have not) heard any stories of this happening.

    Ultimately, who is responsible for your personal safety? The courts have ruled that the police are NOT responsible for the safety of the individual. You are responsible for your own safety, as well as your loved ones, how you decide to do it, is up to you.

    Now, why do you think it is bad?


    The gene pool needs chlorine.
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  • ArmaliteA4ArmaliteA4 Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think that this opinion is pretty common in our society today.People seem to have a knee jerk reaction to common people being able to conceal carry.I know this is probably the exception but I still want to say it.Alot of the people that I know who ccw probably shoot more accurately and more often with a pistol than alot of our local policemen(and women).Because we live in a rural area, we are on our own as far as protection.It would take police at least 45 minutes to get here in case I needed to dial-a-prayer(911)SO I guess my point is,mr a.gun.please do not judge a book by its cover and think that the lack of a uniform means a lack of skills.Besides who do you > truthfully think < the 2nd amendment was written for?? You seem to have some reservation with honest,law abiding types allowed to carry.Why is this??Thanks for this post also,I would imagine this will get good[;)]
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  • bnailonbnailon Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A.Gun, those of us who respect the law and authority and wish to obtain a ccw license have every right to do so under the Second Amendment. The persons that are issued ccw's undergo rigorous background examinations (FBI-NCIC, INTERPOL,state, county, city, etc.), and handgun proficiency tests to ensure that a license is not issued to someone who shouldn't have one. If an applicant has a criminal record, it's coming out in the background check, and depending upon the offense, a ccw may not be issued.

    What is your concern with this system? As someone on the forum says "An armed society is a polite society".
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  • schotzi1schotzi1 Member Posts: 307 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    My own opinion is that anyone with a GOOD record and over the age of 21 should be allowed to own and carry whatever firearms he/she wishes and anyone with a BAD record should be in prison, 21 years of age or not. Seriously A.gun, what are your specific concerns about "shall issue" CCW permits?


    Absolutely AGREE!
    The more "legal" gun owner/carriers there are - the more the crimal must ask the question "I wounder if this guy I am about to harm/rob has a gun.

    Be responsible
    Be intelligent
    Be REPUBLICAN
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  • A.GunA.Gun Member Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes, I also understand that if you have a good record you should be allowed to do this. All i'm saying is couldn't their be a man who has never broken the law and use this to his advantage? I see a lot more robberies about to happen, or a lot more people protecting themselves!
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  • fivonutfivonut Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    A.Gun,

    This is how I see it. BTW, the PPA ( personal protection act ) just got shot down here in Wisconsin. The vote to overide the veto lost by one. Anywho, You can,t own a handgun til your 21. Most people who are of the mentality that would use a handgun for criminal purposes more than likely have gotten into trouble prior to turning 21. This will prevent them from "legally" purchasing a handgun. The problem is, there are currently no laws preventing private citizens from selling handguns to other private citizens. So, needless to say the "bad guy" WILL get his/her hands on a gun when they want one bad enough. keeping a clean record til your 21 just so you can buy a handgun and use it for a crime requires A LOT of patience. I think the criminals will get them other, simpler ways. Which leaves us law abiding citizens ripe for the pickin. I'd like to see the look on a crooks face when I point my nickel plate 50 cal desert eagle in his face. I doubt I'd ever have to fire the thing. Simple intimidation would do the trick.
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  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:I see a lot more robberies about to happen, or a lot more people protecting themselves!
    About the first part of your statement.
    The people that are going to rob places already HAVE guns.
    Isn't the second part of your statement a good thing?


    The gene pool needs chlorine.
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  • ArmaliteA4ArmaliteA4 Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ok a.gun here is my true opinion on this matter.
    1. We have a Bill Of Rights, Read #2

    2. If it makes you ,or anyone else, uncomfortable thinking average joe's are packin' guns, get over it, cause criminal types have been doin' it longer and really WILL hurt you.

    3. Politicians that think we can't carry guns should but put out of work...In the very next election cycle.

    4. People that support the above politicians have that right,but don't onager when you,or someone you know, get raped,robbed or maybe just beaten viciously and you had no way to defend yourself.

    5.That #2 amendment I mentioned guarantees the first,third, fourth,fifth,etc...... (see the pattern??)

    6. People that choose NOT to excecise their #2 right indeed have that chioce. They do NOT have the right to disallow us to excercise it.And actually, the federal government doesn't have the right either.They just have been allowed to get by with it so long people just assume its supposed to be that way.
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  • A.GunA.Gun Member Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, lets say Joe is walkin down the street after a hard night of drinking, and he gets into an arguemtn with his budy and a punch is thrown! What would stop Joe from bringin out the heat?
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  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    If "Joe" has been the type of person who gets drunk, into fights (or hangs out with people who do this)and is quick to threaten his opponent with deadly force, most likely Joe would not have been the type of person to pass a background check in order to obtain a concealed carry license. But if by chance Joe does have a CCW license and he pulls it on a friend simply because of a drunken argument (if drunk Joe shouldn't have even had his gun, just as if drunk Joe shouldn't drive) then he will quickly find himself arrested and will no longer have a CCW permit or probably even be allowed to own a gun.

    But I am aware that someone could come up with unlimited "what if's". Such as what if two drivers got into a road rage altercation, or an argument in the grocery store line,etc., etc.,. So I will try and cover that entire type of argument by saying that when citizens are given the freedom they deserve, they have to be trusted to do the right thing. And the great majority will do the right thing. But there also might be a tiny few who do the wrong thing. But freedom is not free, and that is the cost of giving freedom to the citizens. This is true whether you are allowing them to drink to excess, buy strong drugs over the counter, keep dangerous gasoline and chemicals in their garage, etc., etc. The only alteritave to trusting citizens to do the right thing after they are given their freedoms is to act like a dictator and NOT GIVE THEM ANY FREEDOMS.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
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  • 3gunner3gunner Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ah the ole "what if's". If all else fails just keep throwing a bunch of "what if's" at them pro-gunners. If we list all the "what if's" of any kind of deadly force this post will never end.
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  • FlatheadFlathead Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah "what if" old Joe pulls off his belt and strangles his buddy, "what if" Joe picks up a rock and smashes his buddys head in????? and so on and so on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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  • ozwynozwyn Member Posts: 189 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The thing about all the "what if's" is that actual incidents with people who have these kind of carry permits in states that allow them are incredibly low.

    You don't have to ask what if, you can do RESEARCH on those states already with "shall issue" permits.

    What you'll find is that states with shall issue permits on average have a very nice drop in violent crime [:D]

    Blunt objects killing more people than guns. Keep an eye out for the gun concealed carrying a hammer or tire iron [;)]
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  • Salvage33Salvage33 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A.Gun...

    Let me set up a scenario for YOU!!! Let's assume that you have been hanging out at the mall, and at the end of the evening you head out to your car. As you approach your vehicle, three guys appear and start wailing on your head, and one of them has a knife and is rapidly starting to slice and dice you. Further assume in this scenario, that I happen to walk up and witness you getting the crap beat out of you in addition to being 'Ronco'd' by the guy with the knife.

    THIS PART IS NOT AN ASSUMPTI0N: I carry a concealed firearm (I really do, and have the proper permits to do so). My question to you is; would you want me to intercede on your behalf, in effect saving your life, and use my firearm to (1) threaten to use it if they do not cease and desist, and (2) USE IT (as in point it and pull the trigger) until the bad guys are (1) dead; (2)running for their lives in an effort to save themselves?

    I'm willing to bet that you would be SOOOOOOOOOOO glad that I came along at that moment and had a gun. Whatcha think about that "what if?"


    Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not shooting at me!
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  • hksrulehksrule Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You stupid snot...thats a great idea. Think about it, what gangbanger who actually enganges in criminal acts will have a clean record and qualify for the ccw law. Think ahead. Nobody that you would need to worry about would actually qualify if the law requires a clean/clear record. In NM...the wild west...you still need to be 25 to get the ccw permit even though you only need to be 21 to own a hand gun. Basically...anyone else in any other state would like to be in your position so dont take it for granted


    WordBorn!!
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  • A.GunA.Gun Member Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't get me wrong I think this will do more good than bad. I was just wondering what everyone's feelings were toward this.
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  • cougar_xingcougar_xing Member Posts: 27 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    A.Gun,
    If you want to question something... question the right of the bad guys. Lets back up to the Mall parking lot. lets say a guy did come along and saved your Butt but had to shoot the guy with the knife. Guess who is going to loose his house, car, guns, freedom and his whole life as he new it. If the mall was in New York state and could not prove self defence? Yes that bad guy has a good chance to take everything that nice guy who just wanted to do the right thing, did! Now, you have something to be fired up about.
    Not only that.. it took this guy six months to get his CCW and he could not get it now a days for protection!
    In new york City no regular Joe, or Jane can get a CCW.... Easy to tell just look at the record.. it has the highest rate of rapes and violent crime. Every outlaw has a gun and two knives. I would not feel safe with a tommygun.

    You may be a redneck if your wife said "I am game" and you shoot her!
    flash
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  • cussedemguncussedemgun Member Posts: 985 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A.gun
    my advise is for you to qualify for a ccw permit. you don't have to be 21 to take the NRA gun safety courses & in most areas they are free. ask at your local gun shop or cop shop for details of a NRA sponsored "personal protection" gun safety course. ( a hunter safety course will not qualify you to use a gun as a "deadly force tool )
    take the course and then answer your own question by being accurately informed, this is maturity when you no longer settle for opinion rather than insist on accurate information.


    if you can't shoot, get good at running

    ok
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  • ArmaliteA4ArmaliteA4 Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    agun,
    what are your feelings now regarding your post?
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  • h4ckthish4ckthis Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I believe Mr A.Gun has the luxury of the ignorance of youth.

    (1) Criminals prefer unarmed victims

    (2) Abuse of the RIGHT to carry a firearm will quickly result in the loss of said right.

    (3) Criminals don't worry about CCW permits.

    (4) Gun laws only apply to those who obey the law.


    "That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state..."
    Article 13
    Virginia Bill of Rights
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  • robbie_light_04robbie_light_04 Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A.Gun, you are wrong about the concealed carry age. It is not 21, it is 18. I looked into it and wrote a paper about it for my American Government class. I too, am from Ohio. If you don't like the idea of people carrying guns, then don't carry one.

    "Stand at 25 meters and put 2 rounds into the same hole. That's my definition of gun control." Jesse Ventura
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  • robbie_light_04robbie_light_04 Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Cussedemgun, here in Ohio the the hunter safety courses are free, but we have to pay for the concealed carry classes. When I was talking to the instructor at a local gun shop, he told me that the concealed carry classes were going to start at roughly $150 per person... unless i can find more people to take it the same time as me.

    "Stand at 25 meters and put 2 rounds into the same hole. That's my definition of gun control." Jesse Ventura
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