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It's not going unnoticed.
Warbirds
Member Posts: 16,928 ✭✭✭✭
As lots of you know I mostly just read what you guys in gun rights have to say, and then C&P everything I can to other forums, and I hang out in general discussion b.s.ing' with everyone here on GB. In the last few weeks when those of you like highball, trfox, jpwolf and others started voicing your opinions in general discussion I think it really helped, at least in our own little world here in GB. Remember that all these people talk with there friends and nieghbors as well, so word spreads, and you guys are a great resource. Some of the GB regulars are lost causes but only a small handfull, and you guys already know them, and regularly beat them with facts in debate. Keep up the good work.
Respectfully,
Dave Wilson
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
Respectfully,
Dave Wilson
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
Comments
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
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"If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace" -Thomas Paine
If the people have become so apathetic that they will not vote out all the liberal scum (republican and democrat alike), the only solution is Constitutional Convention II the sequel. Let's get it right this time.
There is a little known theory in marketing...it is called the Marketing Theory of 300, and it goes something like this...the average person has negative, or positive, impact, either directly or indirectly on 300 people...and this is how it works.
Lets say a new restaurant opens in your town. You and your significant other (trying to be 'politically correct' here, but don't get used to it) go to the restaurant and have dinner. Let's say the food was just so-so, the service below average, and the prices high. You finish your meal, pay the bill and leave a tip, not a big one, though.
The next day, a co-worker says that he and his wife are interested in trying out the new restaurant. At that point, you tell him about what you experienced, relating the service, food quality, and prices. At that point, he decides that he is not going to go. While you are telling the one co-worker, two more listen in, and because of your experience, they do not want to spend their money on a bad experience. Later, someone else mentions the restaurant to one of your co-workers, and they respond with what you told them..and so it goes until at least 300 people have been influenced, either directly or indirectly about your experience.
Now we need to each of us, go find a liberal/commie/pinko/fascist/hollywood/homophobic/anorexic/crossdresser and take them shooting. Make it a positive experience. Do NOT forcibly kidnap them to get them to the range, and don't let them shoot your 44 Mag with the +P+ loads. Be nice..let them shoot your little 22's. Show them how to handle the firearm in a safe manner, how to gain a sight picture, and how to gently squeeze the trigger, not jerk it, and praise them loudly when they come close to the target. Let them start the dialogue that shooters are not bad folks, and make them understand that our hobbies/avocations are fun, even though they may not be, initially, their hobbies.
Yikes..did any of this make sense?
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not shooting at me!
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
There are many quite content at the level of gun control..several get excited at the thought of the money to be made with new restrictions..many believe that their fellow man cannot be trusted to carry a gun...and some believe that getting a permit somehow makes them 'better' then the next guy...
If we cannot convince them about what the Second Amendment really is about...there ain't a hope in **** we can convince the average joe down the street about it....
Appreciate the bouquet, but it is just common sense..we have to show the other side that we are NOT "gun nuts" but rather we are shooting enthusiasts. I understand that it is semantics..but we have allowed the press and the left wing liberals to use their words to describe us without responding very often.
I have a friend who is a liberal. He's a college professor, and he freaked when he found out that I am an NRA member. Didn't talk to me for six months, then he got over his ignorant snit. I called him one Friday evening and asked if he wanted to run out to the "country" the next morning. He said he had nothing to do, so sure. I loaded a couple of 22 rifles, and two hand guns along with enough ammo to start a small uprising and took him to the shooting club. He was shocked and stunned about where he ended up, but after a few minutes, I asked if he would like to shoot one of the guns..his choice.
It was at that moment that he said that he had never held a gun, let alone shot one. One of the other guys and I went through all the safety regulations, then had him load a magazine, and finally let him shoulder one long arm, empty, and get a sight picture. After quite a while, we actually let him shoot it. It was like watching a kid at Christmas. We went through a brick of 22, 3 boxes of 38 Special, and 2 boxes of 45 ACP.
He is still a liberal, but now he calls me to find out when I'm going to the range again, and can he go with me. He even replaced all the ammo he shot. He is even considering purchasing a handgun for home defense.
The point is....if we can get ONE of them to go with us, have some fun and learn that we aren't bomb throwers, they'll spread the word faster than we can, and they know who to talk to within THEIR group.
John
A friend will post your bail. A good friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying, "man that was fun!"
everyone who has gone with me to arange has (surprisingly) found out gn owners are not wild eyed yokels, safety is important, and theyve had a great time shooting. plus gunowners are friendly, not many other sports where people will let you take a shot out of thier $8000.00 barrett.[:D].
it takes a while till a new shooter will grasp the idea that the right to bear arms is not about hunting though.
ive been asked by a few people how many hoops ive had to jump through to buy a machinegun when they see my ar15.or how is it legal for me to own a machinegun? thats what we face hci and other gun banners want the iuneducated masses to think black rifles are machineguns.as you can imagine there are some stunned loooks when i say i can walk into a store and buy one and walk out with it (provided i pass a background check that takes a few minutes). this usually leads to the discussion that criminals dont go to gun stores to buy guns and the only people that the laws are designed to hurt are those who want to follow the laws. but once they are on the firing line with an ar, they are having fun and its a great change to see someone lose the fear of the unknown and have a good time shooting.
ive gotten my mother who was absolutely terrified of guns to end up buying a .22 target rifle. that was an accomplishment. next sunday i'm taking a few people out to a range with me 2 have never handled a gun before, it will be an interesting weekend.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Not all on GB are 'Like-minded'..not at all.
There are many quite content at the level of gun control..several get excited at the thought of the money to be made with new restrictions..many believe that their fellow man cannot be trusted to carry a gun...and some believe that getting a permit somehow makes them 'better' then the next guy...
If we cannot convince them about what the Second Amendment really is about...there ain't a hope in **** we can convince the average joe down the street about it....
How true........
Aw shucks...'tweren't nothun'...but thanks for the bouquet.
I don't think we need to convert a million of them..just enough so that when they are among their own kind, that they can address the conversation with more objectivity instead of ignorant emotion.
I do sincerely believe that a lot of the "gun grabbers" are as blinded by the propaganda that their leaders put out. And since they have assumed their holier than thou position, they can't, generally, go against the herd. But we need to exercise an educational process with them. Take them shooting, show them the safety factors that we employ, and everything that goes with having a good, SAFE time shooting, but make damned sure that they hold and fire a gun. Training one of them to like firearms is sort of like teaching a young, hard headed lab to mark. It's done with lots of patience and positive reinforcement, not harsh words and yelling.'
LOL
John
A friend will post your bail. A good friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying, "man that was fun!"
But I think the easiest and most fun way to solve this pro/anti-gun battle is to convert the majority of the people to, if not like guns, at least be netural about them. But we need more places to shoot that are closer to the population and quick and easy to get to. I could take a new friend to a local indoor range but there are only about 3 or 4 in the whole metro KC area and sometimes they are crowded plus I get tired of punching holes in paper. But to drive to the outdoor range club I belong to takes 45 minutes one way. If it was this difficult to go bowling, just for an example, the bowling sport would probably die out. I don't know how the shooting sport has held on for so long and I am worried about its future.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
You don't understand how the shooting sport has held on for so long? That's an easy question to answer..well..at least for me. I grew up in the country on a 3200 acre cattle ranch. Both my grandfathers were hunters, one was a wing shooter, quail hunting was his passion, the other a deer hunter, among other things, and he loved rifles. Both of them, along with Dad, included me in their hunting trips from the time I was about five.
Dad gave me a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun when I was about five, and when I was eight, my grandfather gave me a brand new Remington 22 rifle, pump action, and bought me a box of shells to go with it. Let's just say that the rabbit and squirrel population in that part of eastern Oklahoma took a big drop! And I was hunting alone at the age of 8 or 9.
I had been taught to respect what a firearm would do, what it was for, and how to shoot it, clean it, and take care of it. I was told what would happen to me if I abused the privelage, that's right, the PRIVELAGE of having a gun. Had I screwed up and "played" with it, I probably wouldn't have reached the age of puberty as either Dad or one of my grandfathers would have skinned me alive and nailed my hide on the tack barn wall. I'm serious about that! Guns are not toys, and that was drilled into me almost every day.
As I grew older, I added to the Daisy and the Remington, next was a 410 single shot my grandfather had made special for me..it was on a 20 gauge frame, weighed a ton, but had NO recoil, even with 3" shells. Others came along, either gifts or purchased with my money earned from doing my chores and bailing/hauling/stacking hay, and whatever else they wanted me to do.
Guns are a tradition in my family, needless to say. Much as they are, most likely, in most families. And the traditions are passed from generation to generation, along with the guns. Some of my most cherished memories are of hunting trips with my Dad and grandfathers. Time spent in the field, duck blind, deer stand, and sometimes just plinking.
Guns are more than just pieces of fabricated metal and shaped wood. They are the storehouses of memories of times past, rending smiles and tweaking memories of pleasurable days spent carrying them, often unfired, over countless acres of field and forest. They are what helped make this country free from the tryanny of British colonial rule, and tamed the west. They embody the very spirit of what we know as "being an American."
A couple of years back I was working on a project at the Conoco refinery in Ponca City, OK. Two engineers that were there hailed from Germany, and they were amazed that some of us would go shooting on the weekends; pistols and revolvers and rifles, not to mention sporting clays, skeet, and trap. We invited them to go with us, and they almost jumped up and down at being invited to go shooting. They shot everything that was there, always courteous, saying thank you...and meaning it, to everyone who let them pop a cap or two or a hundred. It was amazing, because they don't have the rights that we have. Let's just say that we made two new friends. And they bought ammo so they would get invited again. It was fun, and sad at the same time. Something that we generally take for granted was a real treat for them. It ended up being a treat for us too.
I have in my possession some of each grandfather's guns. Classic Ithaca doubles, L.C. Smith's, Browning's, Remington's, Winchester's, and S&W's. Each has a history, and just looking at them, wiping them down, brings back memories of my childhood and youth.
Now I'm sure that the paintball, laser tag, and other activities can help us. But if you stop and think about it, those activities are games with tactics that are devised to "kill" an opponent. We are not employing our possession and use of firearms to kill an opponent, rather we are using them in a lot of non-lethal activities and wish to promote their safe use.
Dang..there I go..rambling away again....
John
A friend will post your bail. A good friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying, "man that was fun!"
quote:Now I'm sure that the paintball, laser tag, and other activities can help us. But if you stop and think about it, those activities are games with tactics that are devised to "kill" an opponent. We are not employing our possession and use of firearms to kill an opponent, rather we are using them in a lot of non-lethal activities and wish to promote their safe use.
I would agree with that statement...IF every man,woman and child in this country was taught to use a gun to defend themselves,their community,and the nation...After all....
THAT IS WHAT THE FOUNDERS MEANT with the Second Amendment..yes,they said it was fun..but much more importantly,they said it was our DUTY..
about the age of 14 i went to israel and saw jews with guns for the first time and bagan to get curious about them. i guess over the next several years i learned more about guns and gradually became the family gun nut.now i cant understand how a people who had gone through the holocaust would not have a few firearms in each home, while it would be impossible to win against an entire army an armed jewish populace might have made it very costly to do the final solution. today i think every jewish home should have serious weaponry as a reaction to that time but the very opposite seems to be the norm,there is a fear of anything that is a weapon and i dont understand why.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
I really enjoyed you post about growing up in the gun culture. It reminded me of my childhood quite a bit.
if more good people owned guns and used them, there would be be less evil people in the world. some through elimination,some through fear,and some would just decide to stay on the rigt side as its easier.
the more laws against guns and self protection there are, the more likely you are to make a honest man(woman) into a criminal. the more honest people becoming criminals are used as an excuse to take away rights the more laws will be needlessly written.
i also notice that whe groups advocate self defense with weapons they are usually referred to as terrorists we can use the original black panther groups and the jdl as an example. both were groups that advocated self defense and both were labelled as terrorist organizations mostly for not accepting that society itself would defend them.many in there own peer groups were afraid of the attention they brought on them as well and external society also grew afraid that anyone advocating self defense was dangerous.
when you hear police talking about a violent encounter such as a stickup, they usually tell you not to defend yourself, give up whatever the bad guy wants. this is pervasive through society till anyone that davocates self defense is considered to be telling people somthing wrong.this is far more common in urban areas where you are likely to have an encounter. the police will tell you not to risk your life , submit, is the best thing you can do.this is the civilized way so the more civilized you are the more likely you are to not want to defend yourself.
heres the rub, it used to be the practice with terrorists taking over a plane that everyone submitted and absorbed a few lives lost as being minor collateral damage. there were a few air marshalls but not many because accepted proceedure was to submit.suddenly after sept11 the price of submission was revealed and the next wacko that tried to light up his shoes got pounced on by everyone and pounded a bit while they got the plane to safety.there will be no submission again. and in an effort to prevent the wholesale carrying of guns by aircrews we now have an untold amount of air marshalls to recivilize the friendly skies.its the govts way of reminding everyone that you shouldnt need to defend yourself we will do it for you and you will obey.
in nyc self defense is not agood reason to get a carry permit(actually nothing is a good reason) because individuals should submit and wait for the largest police force in the world to clean up after. in many liberal areas of the country this is accepted practice because were too civilized to have to defend ourselves and the small number who die each year are that little collateral damage that is the price of civilization.
this is what happenned with blacks and jews as they came up in the world from where they were 50 years ago till today they became very civilized and rationalized that the bull connors were now on their side so they had no need to defend themselves society would do it for them, and as for the small amount of collateral damage......it would serve to remind the world every once in a while thet there was an obligation to protect them since old hatred are still there just buried for a while.
sometimes the price has to be high to understand why you must defend yourself.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
I wouldn't have referred to it as a "gun culture." They were simply always there, and used from time to time to kill snakes, hunt, or simply plink. They were never locked up, ammo was always available, and my brothers and I all knew that if we didn't follow the rules with them, it was our *! Literally, and figuratively! But it was a great childhood! I wouldn't trade it for anything.
TO 2gun:
For the life of me I can't figure out why everyone doesn't have a firearm, or two or more, in their homes...not just limiting it to those of the Jewish faith or those of African descent!!
Hell, if any "group" should want to keep an armory full, it would the Native American Indians! One of their few victories that history remembers (not sure if this is still listed in the textbooks today) is the Battle of Little Bighorn...where the Oglala Sioux led by Crazy Horse eliminated Gen. George Armstrong Custer and his merry band from the face of the earth.
Tonka wakan..
John
A friend will post your bail. A good friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying, "man that was fun!"
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Great read on your childhood. Thanks for sharing.
My childhood was different. I grew up in a house in suburban New Jersey with no guns at all. As a kid, I wanted a BB gun, but Mom said no![V]
My grandfather, however, was a hunter. When he retired, he bought about 50 acres in PA and was in heaven. When I was a child, anytime my older sister and I would visit, my Grandfather took us out walking in the woods. Eventually he would disappear into the undergrowth, and my sister and I would love trying to find our own way back to the house. I mean, 50 acres seems like the world to a 7 year old kid from the burbs! We always had a sense of accomplishment when we came through the swampy area, pushed the thick underbrush along the fields edge aside, and saw the house up on the hill. It was great fun.
At night my grandmother would cook us spaghetti with some kind of meat, and every once in awile I remember biting into a steel shot. "What are we eating?" I'd ask . .Grandmom would just smile and say, "Oh, that's a squirrel your PopPop shot yesterday."
My grandfather only had 3 guns. A .22 that belonged to his father, a 12ga, and a 30-06. He'd take us out back, set up some cans or whatever, and teach us to shoot. My sister was always a better shot BTW. In any event, I remember feeling really proud later on as a teen when he finally let me shoot the 12ga and the 06.
I really didn't think too much about guns outside of the trips to his place. When I went to college out in CO, I was really suprised that all my friends who grew up out there had at least a rifle! Although I did a little bit of shooting with these guys, I still didn't buy my own gun.
It wasn't until I got a bit older, got my own piece of land about 200 miles from my current home in New York City (a move which was inspired by my grandfather), and decided to look at this whole "2nd Ammendment debate" for myself that I began to aquire some firearms of my own. Now, I'm a true believer.
About 2 years ago, I asked my granfather (now nearing 90 - still going strong though!) what ever became of his 3 guns, as I hadn't seen them since he sold his property about 10 years back. He frowned, and told me that he just didn't think anybody would want them (3 granddaughters and only one grandson - me), and at the time I hadn't expressed any interest in shooting. So, a few years prior he sold them. For about 200 bucks a gun, a whole chapter of family history was gone. It broke my heart, although I never expressed to him how much. Today, I have a nice and steadily growning collection of firearms - but I'd give them all up and then some just for that .22 he and I would shoot out in his woods. It sounds corny and dramatic, but I'd love to be able to pull that old gun out and just handle it, clean it, whatever.
Anyway, I'm rambling and it's late.
Too bad about your grandfather's guns. And you are right, a piece of your family history is now lost. I have three brothers, but only two of them hunt/shoot. So when our grandfathers starting passing along guns, there was a bit of a clamor about who got what. In fact, there was a bit of trading after both of them had passed on to the happy shooting range in the sky.
I ended up with a 1903A3 Springfield, a 30-40 Krag-Jorgensen, a sweet Ithace grade 2 NID 16gauge SxS, L.C. Smith 12 gauge SxS, and a S&W Model 2 "lemon squeezer" in 32 S&W. I would have been thrilled to have been entrusted with the keeping and care of only one, but between my two grandfathers there was a veritable small armory of firearms.
But the ones I have have special meaning to me, my sons both know all the stories that go along with them, and as soon as he is old enough, so will my 18 month old grandson. Got to keep the tradition going, and as someone on here has said over and over and over... "there is no such thing as too many guns."
John
A friend will post your bail. A good friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying, "man that was fun!"
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"