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Ban Assault Rifles For Cops????

tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
Sometimes you can take your opponent's position and stretch it a little bit until the whole idea is revealed for the ridiculous concept it was from the beggining. WITH THIS IN MIND, please consider and give me your opinion on this:

The so-called assault weapons bans offered at the federal and state levels are supposed to have one purpose; to keep semi-automatic guns out of the hands of lawful gun owners but especially out of the hands of the violent criminals. Now, if we can believe that this law actually works like it is supposed to, then we can naturally expect to not find any lawful gun owners possessing semi-automatic guns and not even any such guns in the hands of the violent criminals.

So, if this is true WHY DO THE POLICE NEED THEIR ASSAULT GUNS? Why shouldn't everyone in society (except the military of course) give up their "assault guns"? And why can't we tack that requirement onto any future proposed assault weapons ban? Thereby making the sponser of such a law choke on it?

Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"

Comments

  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My response: "What makes you think A NEW LAW will keep LAW BREAKERS from BREAKING the LAW?"

    My thoughts as to why it is wrong to keep arms from the cops as well as from the law abiding: "Laws should be made fearful of crimes, not as a measure to prevent crime. Thus, the people should be well-armed AT ALL TIMES to combat crime."

    But don't think the gun kontrol mongrels will stop at disarming the people. As soon as they believe they've won the war on guns, they will be making a point of trying to get the police to give up their guns, too. "Now that we have successfully rid the streets of guns, you won't be needing this, officer."

    Something the cops should think about...

    Death to Tyrants!!!
    Lev 26:14-39

    Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    good point.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • Salvage33Salvage33 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That is one of the points that I use when discussing firearms with a liberal: If the point of gun laws is to get them out of the hands of criminals, then why do the police continue to escalate their purchase and use of more and more powerful guns?

    They ALWAYS answer that the bad guys don't pay any attention to the law(s) and the police NEED their guns.

    I always answer, my point exactly!!! [}:)]

    John

    A friend will post your bail. A good friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying, "man that was fun!"
  • Red223Red223 Member Posts: 7,946
    edited November -1
    What is the Police of a State? Are they a militia? No.

    They are citizens paid by citizens to enforce laws.

    They are not entitled to carry any firearm that the citizens are not entitled to carry.

    Each State's National Guard is commanded by the State Governor and is charged with protecting the State's citizens...not the police.

    I have never heard of anyone taking this to court and charging police with unlawful use of force and unlawful discharge and possession of weapons....of which Police Forces are not entitled to possess.


    This aught to stir up some chet.

    kabalogoshadowed.gif
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    exactly. ALL law enforcement are the hired help of the citizens. But many of them don't act like it.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • Broomie2Broomie2 Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The citizens of this country are just ordinary people, or surfs if you will, were not allowed to question the powers that be. As we know our goverment will protect us, with all good intentions in mind. If you can buy this, then I guess we need another 20,000 plus gun laws!
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Funny thing is there would be NO "powers that be" if the citizens didn't allow those "powers" to derive their power by riding on our backs. It is time we remind each and every public person (elected, hired, appointed, etc) that they are just the hired help and when not needed to STAY IN THE DAMN KITCHEN.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • shootstrightshootstright Member Posts: 342 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I once asked the attorney general of my state a question . His answer was that his office was not here to protect me for government , it was to protect government from me. So I called the federal attorney general and the federal attorney general told me his job was not to protect me from government , it was to protect government from me.
    The local DA said the same thing.
    So I asked them who was it that was to protect me. They had no answer and told me to call my Rep. or Sen. and get the law changed or call a Lawler . Have you ever tried to get a Rep. or a Sen. Lawler to do anything if you weren't standing around with a black bag of money.
    ______________________________________________________-

    A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
    Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.


    NRA write your Rep. will save a stamp
    http://www.capwiz.com/nra/home/
    GOA
    http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm
  • IncarcerationFacilitatorIncarcerationFacilitator Member Posts: 103 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why would self proclaimed "law abiding citizens" that can be trusted with any type of firearm have an axe to grind with the police? Hmmmm??? I don't get it.... You guys are scary. Should we disband the police force so YOU can come save us all with bullets flying everwhere? Thank but no thanks.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    I don't know if you tried to understand my posted topic, before you decided to insult all of us, but you missed the point. If all the gun laws, especially the so-called "assault weapons ban" have a purpose such as making society safer, if those laws actually work then why do the police feel a need to keep their big, bad, black scary "assault weapons". If all those gun laws are working to make society safe for all of us, why do the police act like they feel less and less safe? As society gets safer and safer, thanks to the 20,000 or so gun laws, why don't the police feel safer and safer and have no need for THEIR assault weapons?

    No one said anything about actually disarming the police so that we could protect the world with "bullets flying". That came from your own limited imagination. Your lack of comprehension "scares" me when I think about how you must have made it through an English class in some school.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • Broomie2Broomie2 Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well said Fox! I support 110% of what you said. Only wish I had said it frist. LOL

    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    Why Broomie2, thankaya, thankaya very much. On first glance it looks to me like incarcerationfacilitator (pretty flippant screen name) , being a police officer and all, has FORGOTTEN that he is just the "Hired Help". He is an employee of the citizens. He does not make or own the law. He merely enforces it. Any power he has (ONLY when a law has been violated) is LOANED to him by us very citizens. At one time he was not an officer and there will come a time when he once again is just a lowly citizen like the rest of us. Of course he could just be some goof-ball claiming to be a police officer in order to add some status to his uncalled for insults and criticisms. That would explain why he was foolish enough to post a full name, occupation and city in his member profile. No real cop I know would be so dumb.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • rbks09rbks09 Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Two Paramedics were murdered in the Kansas City area this week. The culprit was the ex-husband of the female victim. He ambushed her and her partner in their waiting post. The ex-wife had restraining orders and at least a half dozen stalking incidents with the perpetrator that were reported to local law enforcement. This is just another sad example of the fact that we CANNOT rely on our police to protect us. Also just today, a female jogger was sexually assautled on a trail in a very upscale KC suburb - Leawood. I just do not understand why people are opposed to conceal carry.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    excellent point. I copied the newspaper article about the two murdered paramedics and faxed itd along with a note to Gov. Sebilius stating that this latest crime is just more reasons why Kansas Citizens deserve to be alble to carry concealed for protection when the police are not around.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • btkbtk Member Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am a cop and support concealed carry. I don't think everyone should be able to own a gun, due to mental capacity or being convicted of a felony. I understand your point and don't think polce officers should give up weapons that have been outlawed for normal citizens. Police officers are not allowed to have the weapons after getting out of law enforcement. Also a law would have to be in effect longer than nine and half years to get rid of all weapons legally purchased before the ban. And you can still purchase pre-ban weapons and we all know that there are weapons that were not banned that are just as dangerous as the ones that were. So the police should have access to weapons that are more efficiant than the ones on the street. I am waiting, hopefully the ban will expire so I can afford an AR. I' m sure many people on this forum have AR's that I can't afford because of the ban. As for the hired help "staying in the kitchen", you probably could not defend yourself if we did. The police are not hired to protect you, they are hired to protect society in general. So the police are not your hired help, to do as you wish at your beck and call.


    P.S. I'm sure Kathleen just loves hearing from you
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    btk: yours seems like a good, reasonable and balanced response, if I understand it correctly.

    Let me explain the reason for the volatile tone of my topic post. Sometimes to get people to read or listen to your position you sometimes need to find a way to get their attention. Kinda like a teacher slamming a book down on a desk top when first entering the room to get attention and quiet. This method is especially true if you also want people to actually consider an unusual viewpoint.

    In regards to my personal feelings about police, it is probably more friendly than you, and that other LEO who was somewhat hateful, think. I support, respect and appreciate the GOOD cops. Depending where they work at, in many cases they have a difficult, dangerous and often thankless job. But I think the great majority of Ammericans are glad they are there on the job.

    And I don't want the police to be outgunned by the criminals. But my posting was actually directed at the naive, left-wing Socialist, hypocritical politicians who continue to pass more and more gun laws that usually only effect the lawful citizens who 99% of the time would not cause any problems even if there were NO gun laws. And by hypocritical I mean politicians like Ted Kennedy who wants to ban as many guns and ammo types as he can (he would like to ban them all) but still reserves the right to have several fully armed bodyguards accompany him almost everywhere and they are or were armed with those guns that he hates so much when in the hands of the lowly citizen. And people and situations like the top guy of the UN who runs around N.Y. city with bodyguards (some of whom probably couldn't even pass a NICS check) with their fully automatic guns.

    The point I was trying to make was that if all those gun laws are working, then America should by now be a much safer place for the police to work than it was in the past. And it wasn't but a few decades ago that every cop in Ammerica carried a .38 special revolver with low stopping power ammo. So if those gun laws have made the working enviorment safer for the police, then why do they need those big, bad scary "assault weapons"? And of course the answer is not that the police should give up their assault weapons but that people like Ted Kennedy should stop making more and more gun laws that restrict the honest, lawful citizen and all the while claming that he is making society safer.

    Now I will add that I do have a problem with some cops. Even though my comment about "staying in the kitchen" merely meant they should focus on doing what they were hired to do. It has been my observation that a minority of the police begin to think they ARE the law, or they own the law, or that they have more control over the citizens than they do. I don't like to see this. I also don't like seeing one of the "top cops" from a department lobbying the legislators about making or keeping restrictive gun laws while if not on duty , in full uniform. I feel like he/she is misusing their position. If they want to appear before the leglislators and voice their opinion, just like any other citizen, that is fine. But when they try to drag their job into the situation I have a problem with that. I think they should remember that uniform, gun and badge they are wearing was supplied for them by the taxes the working citzens paid. And you can be sure that many of those citizens who supplied his/her equipment do not agree with the message that top cop is delivering to try and influence the legislators. Regardless of which message it might be.

    As far as you not being there to protect me if you stay in the kitchen, in a good natured way I have to mention that as long as citizens are allowed to own self protection in many cases they will do a better job than the police of providing their own protection. And the reason for that is the victim can actually be considered the "first responder" becasue he/she is ON THE SCENE the instant the crime starts. We all know that physical limitations prevent the police from PREVENTING most violent attacks simply becasue the criminals wait until there are no police nearby. If my observation is not true then I would ask you why there is any violent crime? Is it because the police don't car to prevent all violent crime or is it because they CAN NEVER prevent all violent crime. As you well know a whole lot of injury can be caused in only 1-2 minutes and what is the average time it takes for an LEO (actually two LEO's because I have personally observed one LEO stop near a crime in progress call to wait for his/her backup before proceeding to the scene) to arrive on the crime scene.

    I firmly believe that in the case of violent criminal attack, a gun in the hand is worth more to me than a cop on the phone.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:I firmly believe that in the case of violent criminal attack, a gun in the hand is worth more to me than a cop on the phone.


    Me too, Fox.

    Death to Tyrants!!!
    Lev 26:14-39

    Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • ArmaliteA4ArmaliteA4 Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree also....

    Plus, my response time would be a heckuva lot quicker than a 911 call.
    Pretty good chance, in my area, that by the time they show up all that will be needed is a body bag or 2.
  • btkbtk Member Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    tr fox,

    Thats' cool I think were on the same page
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    btk: I want you to know I am very, very happy we are on the same page. And if ever the SHTF I hope I am there to back you up, or you are there to back me up.

    And ikf IncarcerationFacilitator is one of the good cops, that goes for him/her too.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • gunphreakgunphreak Member Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is a serious question to ask the cops. Based on the answer you get, you can learn whether or not he is one of the good guys:

    "What about citizens using guns to defend themselves?"

    Bound to solicit two non-neutral answers.

    1. "You can't go taking the law into your own hands."
    Translation: I don't believe in your right to self-preservation, and I am not your servant. I don't interpret the law, I write the law as I go. I am the law.

    2. "You better. We can't be there for you all the time."
    Translation: I want what is best for you, and I am acting in your best interests. I am one of the good guys.

    Disagree with the first one all you want, but true citizens see the truth. That is why we are citizens, and not subjects.

    Death to Tyrants!!!
    Lev 26:14-39

    Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
    Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.

    Luke 22:36.
  • btkbtk Member Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I pick door #2
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    roger the #2 pick.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
  • 3gunner3gunner Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In response to the original post:

    Be careful what you ask for, you just may get it. If they take on your logic and ban the police from having any so-called assault weapons then your fight is over. You can dang well believe that if the police can't have it, then John Q. Public doesn't ever stand a chance. I'm sure they would never intend to start such a ban with the police, but that would be a devestating (sp) blow to everyone else.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    3gunner: how right you are, but you surely have noticed the attitude of most people in government, the media and the anti-gun groups. That attitude is that ANY AND ALL guns are good for the police and government to have, but FEW OR NO guns are good for the lowly citizen to have.

    There is not a chance in He!! the police will ever have their gun rights restricted. And so far, in most cases that does not bother me.

    Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
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